Q for lawyers: law school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a former practicing lawyer and I currently work at a T14 law school. I also have a son who's a freshman in college and another soon graduating from college. My father is also a lawyer, and so are several of my siblings.

Okay, now that I've established that I know something about this topic, I'll give some advice. I think it's too early for your son to know whether law school is a satisfying and realistic career path for him.

So much changes from freshman to senior year, and he may feel a lot differently about what he wants by that time. It's great that he's thinking law might be a good fit for him, and if it truly is a good fit he can have a rewarding career in law despite the contracting job market. I completely agree with the advice of several PPs to have him work between undergrad and law school, as this will give him a lot more time and information to make sure law (and what areas of law) appeal to him.

In the meantime, if he decides to major in history I'd suggest he double major or minor in something else to hedge his bets. What about history and economics or business, or perhaps public policy or foreign affairs? If he does this he can decide whether to go to law school or perhaps choose business school, consulting, or public policy masters down the road. I think in today's economy it's good to hedge your bets a little.

I'm a current practicing lawyer, worked in BigLaw and now a Fed, and I think this is all great advice, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a former practicing lawyer and I currently work at a T14 law school. I also have a son who's a freshman in college and another soon graduating from college. My father is also a lawyer, and so are several of my siblings.

Okay, now that I've established that I know something about this topic, I'll give some advice. I think it's too early for your son to know whether law school is a satisfying and realistic career path for him.

So much changes from freshman to senior year, and he may feel a lot differently about what he wants by that time. It's great that he's thinking law might be a good fit for him, and if it truly is a good fit he can have a rewarding career in law despite the contracting job market. I completely agree with the advice of several PPs to have him work between undergrad and law school, as this will give him a lot more time and information to make sure law (and what areas of law) appeal to him.

In the meantime, if he decides to major in history I'd suggest he double major or minor in something else to hedge his bets. What about history and economics or business, or perhaps public policy or foreign affairs? If he does this he can decide whether to go to law school or perhaps choose business school, consulting, or public policy masters down the road. I think in today's economy it's good to hedge your bets a little.

I'm a current practicing lawyer, worked in BigLaw and now a Fed, and I think this is all great advice, PP.

+1 ...and if I can offer my own non-American perspective: The profession is now over saturated everywhere. I already followed the conventional social sciences path up to a PhD (never did a law degree), and the only reason I want to touch law now is to get an LLM in International Law, just for distinct specialization in an area. Law on its own is tough everywhere now (having good friends who did and are doing law degrees now), so I suggest he spreads his wings academically, and if he really loves law, then perhaps pursue it as a later degree, to build on an already established career path.

[Anonymous]

I agree that the field is over-saturated.

[Anonymous]

Med school or accounting or top 10% of class at Ivy law.

[Anonymous]

I agree with PPs that it's too early to worry about, and that your son should focus on getting good grades so that he has lots of options for grad school if that's what he wants. I'd encourage a degree in economics or business, but really it doesn't much matter that much.

The one thing I wanted to add to the "should I go to law school topic" is that it's not just the loans, it's the three years of lost experience and wages. When I got out of law school, my peers who went straight to work after college had three years of resume experience, income, credit history, etc. It put them ahead in a lot of ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PPs that it's too early to worry about, and that your son should focus on getting good grades so that he has lots of options for grad school if that's what he wants. I'd encourage a degree in economics or business, but really it doesn't much matter that much.

The one thing I wanted to add to the "should I go to law school topic" is that it's not just the loans, it's the three years of lost experience and wages. When I got out of law school, my peers who went straight to work after college had three years of resume experience, income, credit history, etc. It put them ahead in a lot of ways.

I agree with the focus on getting good grades now, but actually think a history degree isn't a bad choice. History majors tend to learn how to do research, formulate issues and arguments, and write well. Not bad skills to have if you're considering law school, and skills that a lot of other employers value.

I also agree with previous posters who suggest that you not pay for law school unless your son works in some type of legal job first--an internship at a law firm, or a job at the local DAs or a legal aid office, or a stint as a paralegal, or something so that he can separate TV from reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with PPs that it's too early to worry about, and that your son should focus on getting good grades so that he has lots of options for grad school if that's what he wants. I'd encourage a degree in economics or business, but really it doesn't much matter that much.

The one thing I wanted to add to the "should I go to law school topic" is that it's not just the loans, it's the three years of lost experience and wages. When I got out of law school, my peers who went straight to work after college had three years of resume experience, income, credit history, etc. It put them ahead in a lot of ways.

I agree with the focus on getting good grades now, but actually think a history degree isn't a bad choice. History majors tend to learn how to do research, formulate issues and arguments, and write well. Not bad skills to have if you're considering law school, and skills that a lot of other employers value.

I also agree with previous posters who suggest that you not pay for law school unless your son works in some type of legal job first--an internship at a law firm, or a job at the local DAs or a legal aid office, or a stint as a paralegal, or something so that he can separate TV from reality.

No, just no, unless you plan to be an academic in history (and really, who does), history is a complete waste of a major. Too many college students major in the history/humanities with no clue about how they are going to put that degree to use.

I agree that he needs to be able to get into a top ten school to make law school worthwhile, and be prepared to do well enough there to be at least in the top third of the class (not so important if he really does get into Yale). Also, I strongly advise that he worked as a paralegal for at least a year if he remains interested. He needs to understand how much of the legal business is not that much fun.

[Anonymous]

A freshman in college has no real idea what he wants to do in life...nor should he. It's silly to get into arguments about pie in the sky. And as for what he should major in, my law school classmates and I majored in everything from English to history to child development to microbiology. What matters is how well you write and whether you can think critically.

[Anonymous]

My advice is that he major in something that interests him, he can do well in, and that is somewhat practical. if he likes history, economics might work.
as for law school, low debt gives you more options. he should go to the very best in state law school -- not the best one he can get into, but the best one. if you are not a resident of a state with great state law schools (VA, CA, MI, I'm sure there are others), he should move to one after graduation, get residency, and then apply. the worst part about being a lawyer, for me, was how much it cost to get there and trying to pay back loans quickly so I could have more choices.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the great state law school advice. He should major in engineering and become a patent lawyer

[Anonymous]

If he wants to be a prosecutor he does not necessarily need to go T14. It is best, of course, but top couple in area will do as well. He does need to go to a decent school and do OK, and do all the moot court he can. Intern with a prosecutor's office during the summer of college and law school.

he will never make big money, probably not even six figures in many areas. He will be better off moving to a smaller city where COL will make this very comfortable and a great career. It is a good job, rewarding and being a prosecutor is one area where you really can make a difference to people's lives. Encourage him to develop strong "practical reasoning" skills and deal with a lot of people to find inventive solutions, especially people who might have a lot of problems, especially mental problems, and apparently can't seem to help but go from one legal scrape to another. Have him volunteer at a homeless shelter and cultivate a sense of "there but for the grace of God go I." He will be a better prosecutor for it, and I say this as a conservative so this isn't some bleeding-heart liberal advice. You can't bring an agenda to this career and do it well, people's lives and futures are at stake.

Being a prosecutor is a great public service and a heavy burden. Good luck to him.

[Anonymous]

Practicing lawyer here (big firm). I agree with the PP who suggested a double major - history and a science of some kind. Hopefully, your son will take to the science discipline and pursue a career there. Law school really should be avoided unless you get into a top 5-10 (even a top 10 school is chancing it these days), or a full ride to a decent school.

And even then, even if you "win" the game, what you've won is a few years grinding it out in biglaw with the hope that you can find a decent exit option (which may be a federal or state govt gig, which pays fairly well but not all that great).

[Anonymous]

I don't think a top 10 is a risk. I am a lawyer who has been out 15 years but work with young lawyers. They report that their classmates from their top 10 schools all got jobs.

[Anonymous]

I don't think a top 10 is a risk. I am a lawyer who has been out 15 years but work with young lawyers. They report that their classmates from their top 10 schools all got jobs.

I'm a millennial who has considered going to law school, so looked into job prospects (I'm a scientist considering a career shift into patent law, so a little different market). I have a lot of friends who are first or second year associates now at big firms who went to T14 schools. They basically said the same thing.

[Anonymous]

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/