FCPS Boundary Review Updates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with expanding just because a school is up for renovation is that the expected increase in enrollment sometimes never comes. This moves the burden of capital expansions onto taxpayers now when the need may not arrive for many years, if ever.

Why did they expand West Potomac to 3000 seats when there was plenty of room available next door at Mt. Vernon? They said it was because they expect growth in the Route 1 corridor. But that growth, if it arrives, is years away. The real reason is that the Mt. Vernon School Board member at the time did not want to upset her West Potomac constituents by moving kids to Mt. Vernon. Mt. Vernon now has about 500-600 empty seats. West Potomac has between 300-400 empty seats.

In 2005 Lewis had its design capacity expanded to over 2100, then the School Board turned around immediately and moved kids to South County and West Springfield. Lewis has had excess capacity ever since.

About 10 years later Springfield Estates was expanded. It has local students and is an AAP center. Then the School Board added an AAP center to the Edison pyramid, taking some students out of Springfield Estates. Springfield Estates has had excess capacity ever since.

West Springfield's expansion grew over several CIPs - which seems like false advertising in capital expenditures. The reason was probably to avoid ever rezoning kids to Lewis. Even now WS is close to 300 students over capacity with plenty of seats available at Lewis.

I think the poor management of FCPS started when the School Board became elected as opposed to appointed. The members are too close to the public and many are seeking higher office, so they absolutely refuse to make tough decisions.

Don't expect this poor management to get better.

Who should appoint the school board?

It was done by the Supervisors.

How would that make things better? Aren’t some of the BOS former SB? Isn’t one of the BOS Gerry Connelly’s former chief of staff and seeking to succeed him? They would just appoint whoever FCDC wants. How is that different?

See the earlier post. No it is not a huge improvement (especially in a politically one-sided county), but it does provide some buffer and extra considerations to votes for Supervisor.

No, it would be worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with expanding just because a school is up for renovation is that the expected increase in enrollment sometimes never comes. This moves the burden of capital expansions onto taxpayers now when the need may not arrive for many years, if ever.

Why did they expand West Potomac to 3000 seats when there was plenty of room available next door at Mt. Vernon? They said it was because they expect growth in the Route 1 corridor. But that growth, if it arrives, is years away. The real reason is that the Mt. Vernon School Board member at the time did not want to upset her West Potomac constituents by moving kids to Mt. Vernon. Mt. Vernon now has about 500-600 empty seats. West Potomac has between 300-400 empty seats.

In 2005 Lewis had its design capacity expanded to over 2100, then the School Board turned around immediately and moved kids to South County and West Springfield. Lewis has had excess capacity ever since.

About 10 years later Springfield Estates was expanded. It has local students and is an AAP center. Then the School Board added an AAP center to the Edison pyramid, taking some students out of Springfield Estates. Springfield Estates has had excess capacity ever since.

West Springfield's expansion grew over several CIPs - which seems like false advertising in capital expenditures. The reason was probably to avoid ever rezoning kids to Lewis. Even now WS is close to 300 students over capacity with plenty of seats available at Lewis.

I think the poor management of FCPS started when the School Board became elected as opposed to appointed. The members are too close to the public and many are seeking higher office, so they absolutely refuse to make tough decisions.

Don't expect this poor management to get better.

West Springfield was expanded because the school was literally falling apart, such as walls separating from floors, in a such a condition to require a full gut.

The only responsible thing for FCPS to do when doing a full gut is to add capacity where possible.

The footprint of WSHS remained essentially the same as before.

The capacity was added in the main office/counselors office, the fines arts classrooms (spacious music rooms to accomodate large music classes, modernized theater renovation with set shop, dressing rooms and storage, while modernizing lighting and sound, and replacing 50+ year old curtains and seating), updated gyms and weight rooms, and updated library.

The only classroom space that was added, other than the music classrooms and gyms, were the 3rd floor science labs.

There were ADA compliant bathrooms and access added.

The WSHS renovation came in months ahead of schedule and under budget.

The expansion was primarily updating auxiliary space, and very little classroom capacity, other than update performing arts spaces, gyms and science labs.

It was a necessary update and a responsible use of taxpayer dollars.

I recall they expanded the design capacity by about 300 seats. And the renovation was pretty high-end compared to other schools done 10 years earlier. And the increase in the expansion did change across multiple CIPs...guy running facilities at the time was a WS grad. Just saying.

All pigs are equal, some are just more equal than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Who should appoint the school board?

Parents with kids in the school system.

The benefit of having the Supervisors do it (who are obviously elected) is that it is still democratic while also adding one level of buffer to the process. When you elect a Supervisor you are looking at fire, police, libraries, parks, zoning, etc. (plus in the past schools). This makes it a bit easier for SB members to make tough decisions because the voters have to consider all of those things when they are voting for Supervisor, not just one issue (schools).

That being said, we are never going back (it was in the early 1990's that the SB became elected). So school management is NOT going to get better.

Our board of supervisors is very political,and other than Herrity, less fiscally responsible than the current school board.

Fairfax residents do not want them appointing our school board. It would be worse than the current school board.

Well, yes, that is where the politically one-sided county is a problem. There is no check. Absolute power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't need ANOTHER high school need near Tysons, we need a high school in western Fairfax county.

DP. Then your first step should be talking them out of expanding Centreville to 3000 seats. That is the final nail in the coffin of a new western HS.

We all know why we don’t have a western high school and who has been pushing against any investment in addressing capacity.

Armstrong ES is projected to have 41% capacity in five years. Will the new Thru threshold be 45%-105% in five years? For no particular reason at all?

And if you get your wish, and the Centreville HS expansion is shut down, kids right next door will be bussed across Fairfax city to attend Fairfax high instead of attending the school right next door.

But your kids will attend Langley high and not Herndon. We see how this works.

I’m not at Langley and would have fully supported a new western HS.

But they’ve already expanded Langley, Madison, Oakton, South Lakes, and Herndon, and have a big expansion of Centreville planned now. All six of those schools serve kids in western Fairfax, even if not in western Fairfax themselves.

These expansions and expansion plans are inconsistent with a new western HS, which is why I suggest you advocate for scaling back (not eliminating) the Centreville expansion if you really think a western HS will ever get built.

If all you want is a huge expansion of Centreville to absorb the western part of the Fairfax HS catchment area, then advocate for that and stop talking about a new western HS. While you’re at it, let us know who is going to attend Fairfax, with its 2400 seats, if all these kids move to Centreville.

Woodson kids.

Not many Woodson kids live closer to Fairfax than Woodson. Nice try, but fail.

All of Fairfax Villa is closer to Fairfax than Woodson, and really should go back there.

[Anonymous]

Regarding Centreville expansion and Western High School.

Agree that Centreville should be expanded so that the neighborhoods surrounding it can go there. It is ridiculous that they are being sent to Fairfax.

As far as I know, there is no land designated for Western High School. SB/BOS gave away the Carson site--which could have served the 20171 area between DTR and 50. Then, they came up with Hutchison site which would have been an awful location for a Western High School.

Yes, Chantilly and Centreville are slated to lose membership, but if it gets low, there are plenty of others who are closer to those schools than their current schools and could be sent there.

It appears that the Centreville expansion is in the queue. The Western High School is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding Centreville expansion and Western High School.

Agree that Centreville should be expanded so that the neighborhoods surrounding it can go there. It is ridiculous that they are being sent to Fairfax.

As far as I know, there is no land designated for Western High School. SB/BOS gave away the Carson site--which could have served the 20171 area between DTR and 50. Then, they came up with Hutchison site which would have been an awful location for a Western High School.

Yes, Chantilly and Centreville are slated to lose membership, but if it gets low, there are plenty of others who are closer to those schools than their current schools and could be sent there.

It appears that the Centreville expansion is in the queue. The Western High School is not.

+1

And they are building all along 28. Westfield and Chantilly need relief and Centreville can help.

[Anonymous]

And they are building all along 28. Westfield and Chantilly need relief and Centreville can help.

Most of that is Westfield boundary. Some of it is adjacent to Herndon boundary (and closer to Herndon) and could help out there if Herndon really needs numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with expanding just because a school is up for renovation is that the expected increase in enrollment sometimes never comes. This moves the burden of capital expansions onto taxpayers now when the need may not arrive for many years, if ever.

Why did they expand West Potomac to 3000 seats when there was plenty of room available next door at Mt. Vernon? They said it was because they expect growth in the Route 1 corridor. But that growth, if it arrives, is years away. The real reason is that the Mt. Vernon School Board member at the time did not want to upset her West Potomac constituents by moving kids to Mt. Vernon. Mt. Vernon now has about 500-600 empty seats. West Potomac has between 300-400 empty seats.

In 2005 Lewis had its design capacity expanded to over 2100, then the School Board turned around immediately and moved kids to South County and West Springfield. Lewis has had excess capacity ever since.

About 10 years later Springfield Estates was expanded. It has local students and is an AAP center. Then the School Board added an AAP center to the Edison pyramid, taking some students out of Springfield Estates. Springfield Estates has had excess capacity ever since.

West Springfield's expansion grew over several CIPs - which seems like false advertising in capital expenditures. The reason was probably to avoid ever rezoning kids to Lewis. Even now WS is close to 300 students over capacity with plenty of seats available at Lewis.

I think the poor management of FCPS started when the School Board became elected as opposed to appointed. The members are too close to the public and many are seeking higher office, so they absolutely refuse to make tough decisions.

Don't expect this poor management to get better.

Who should appoint the school board?

It was done by the Supervisors.

How would that make things better? Aren’t some of the BOS former SB? Isn’t one of the BOS Gerry Connelly’s former chief of staff and seeking to succeed him? They would just appoint whoever FCDC wants. How is that different?

This seems worse to me because the SB then has less accountability to the people with kids in the school. The BOS are the crazies who pushed One Fairfax in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the poor management of FCPS started when the School Board became elected as opposed to appointed. The members are too close to the public and many are seeking higher office, so they absolutely refuse to make tough decisions.

Don't expect this poor management to get better.

I totally agree with quoted text above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Who should appoint the school board?

Parents with kids in the school system.

The benefit of having the Supervisors do it (who are obviously elected) is that it is still democratic while also adding one level of buffer to the process. When you elect a Supervisor you are looking at fire, police, libraries, parks, zoning, etc. (plus in the past schools). This makes it a bit easier for SB members to make tough decisions because the voters have to consider all of those things when they are voting for Supervisor, not just one issue (schools).

That being said, we are never going back (it was in the early 1990's that the SB became elected). So school management is NOT going to get better.

Our board of supervisors is very political,and other than Herrity, less fiscally responsible than the current school board.

Fairfax residents do not want them appointing our school board. It would be worse than the current school board.

Nonsense. The school board has shown zero fiscal responsibility. They proposed a budget with a ridiculous 7% across the board raise for all employees and did no work to find budget cuts at all. The board of supervisors is looking at a budget with $60 million in cuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with expanding just because a school is up for renovation is that the expected increase in enrollment sometimes never comes. This moves the burden of capital expansions onto taxpayers now when the need may not arrive for many years, if ever.

Why did they expand West Potomac to 3000 seats when there was plenty of room available next door at Mt. Vernon? They said it was because they expect growth in the Route 1 corridor. But that growth, if it arrives, is years away. The real reason is that the Mt. Vernon School Board member at the time did not want to upset her West Potomac constituents by moving kids to Mt. Vernon. Mt. Vernon now has about 500-600 empty seats. West Potomac has between 300-400 empty seats.

In 2005 Lewis had its design capacity expanded to over 2100, then the School Board turned around immediately and moved kids to South County and West Springfield. Lewis has had excess capacity ever since.

About 10 years later Springfield Estates was expanded. It has local students and is an AAP center. Then the School Board added an AAP center to the Edison pyramid, taking some students out of Springfield Estates. Springfield Estates has had excess capacity ever since.

West Springfield's expansion grew over several CIPs - which seems like false advertising in capital expenditures. The reason was probably to avoid ever rezoning kids to Lewis. Even now WS is close to 300 students over capacity with plenty of seats available at Lewis.

I think the poor management of FCPS started when the School Board became elected as opposed to appointed. The members are too close to the public and many are seeking higher office, so they absolutely refuse to make tough decisions.

Don't expect this poor management to get better.

West Springfield was expanded because the school was literally falling apart, such as walls separating from floors, in a such a condition to require a full gut.

The only responsible thing for FCPS to do when doing a full gut is to add capacity where possible.

The footprint of WSHS remained essentially the same as before.

The capacity was added in the main office/counselors office, the fines arts classrooms (spacious music rooms to accomodate large music classes, modernized theater renovation with set shop, dressing rooms and storage, while modernizing lighting and sound, and replacing 50+ year old curtains and seating), updated gyms and weight rooms, and updated library.

The only classroom space that was added, other than the music classrooms and gyms, were the 3rd floor science labs.

There were ADA compliant bathrooms and access added.

The WSHS renovation came in months ahead of schedule and under budget.

The expansion was primarily updating auxiliary space, and very little classroom capacity, other than update performing arts spaces, gyms and science labs.

It was a necessary update and a responsible use of taxpayer dollars.

I recall they expanded the design capacity by about 300 seats. And the renovation was pretty high-end compared to other schools done 10 years earlier. And the increase in the expansion did change across multiple CIPs...guy running facilities at the time was a WS grad. Just saying.

All pigs are equal, some are just more equal than others.

Yes, only 300 seats.

The music classrooms and the 3rd floor science labs were the only class capacity added.

The reno was nice, but remember, that renovation occured 2016-2019, under interest rates that were in the 2-3% range, and finished a full year early.

It actually resulted a huge savings, in spite of all the bells and whistles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And they are building all along 28. Westfield and Chantilly need relief and Centreville can help.

Most of that is Westfield boundary. Some of it is adjacent to Herndon boundary (and closer to Herndon) and could help out there if Herndon really needs numbers.

Have you driven out to Centerville?

That is the next area to boom. It is one of the few areas with space for housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't need ANOTHER high school need near Tysons, we need a high school in western Fairfax county.

DP. Then your first step should be talking them out of expanding Centreville to 3000 seats. That is the final nail in the coffin of a new western HS.

We all know why we don’t have a western high school and who has been pushing against any investment in addressing capacity.

Armstrong ES is projected to have 41% capacity in five years. Will the new Thru threshold be 45%-105% in five years? For no particular reason at all?

And if you get your wish, and the Centreville HS expansion is shut down, kids right next door will be bussed across Fairfax city to attend Fairfax high instead of attending the school right next door.

But your kids will attend Langley high and not Herndon. We see how this works.

I’m not at Langley and would have fully supported a new western HS.

But they’ve already expanded Langley, Madison, Oakton, South Lakes, and Herndon, and have a big expansion of Centreville planned now. All six of those schools serve kids in western Fairfax, even if not in western Fairfax themselves.

These expansions and expansion plans are inconsistent with a new western HS, which is why I suggest you advocate for scaling back (not eliminating) the Centreville expansion if you really think a western HS will ever get built.

If all you want is a huge expansion of Centreville to absorb the western part of the Fairfax HS catchment area, then advocate for that and stop talking about a new western HS. While you’re at it, let us know who is going to attend Fairfax, with its 2400 seats, if all these kids move to Centreville.

Woodson kids.

Not many Woodson kids live closer to Fairfax than Woodson. Nice try, but fail.

All of Fairfax Villa is closer to Fairfax than Woodson, and really should go back there.

This is simply not true. Don’t come on here and lie and expect not to get called out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And they are building all along 28. Westfield and Chantilly need relief and Centreville can help.

Most of that is Westfield boundary. Some of it is adjacent to Herndon boundary (and closer to Herndon) and could help out there if Herndon really needs numbers.

Have you driven out to Centerville?

That is the next area to boom. It is one of the few areas with space for housing.

I just googled Centreville on realtor.com
Doesn't appear to be much new construction right now. Where are you thinking it is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And they are building all along 28. Westfield and Chantilly need relief and Centreville can help.

Most of that is Westfield boundary. Some of it is adjacent to Herndon boundary (and closer to Herndon) and could help out there if Herndon really needs numbers.

Have you driven out to Centerville?

That is the next area to boom. It is one of the few areas with space for housing.

I just googled Centreville on realtor.com
Doesn't appear to be much new construction right now. Where are you thinking it is?

I think PP thinks FCPS is supposed to address growth in Loudoun and Prince William west and south of Centreville.