White Lotus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a family member who works at a place like the white lotus. It’s a pretty good job compared to others at his education level snd especially in the location. It’s interesting that dcumers are largely viewing the hotel jobs as akin to toiling in the salt mines or inherently very demeaning. My family member would like to make more of course but it’s genuinely a pretty good job he enjoys and is glad to have.

What’s the background of your family member? For Kai’s character the job is demeaning. The government stole his family’s ancestral land and he’s working a crappy job on his own land.

It's not really demeaning though. He might feel some internal conflict - as he expresses to Paula - but he seems to feel like it's a pretty good job, worth holding onto. Then she whispers in his ear...

Yes it is, did you purposely ignore the part about his family’s land being stolen? He’s working this job bc his family doesn’t have a lot of money and he has to support himself somehow, anyone would feel demeaned and maybe even traumatized by working a low wage service job on land they rightfully own. This, by the way, is similar to the real stories of many native Hawaiians, similar to Native Americans here. Are you really this clueless?

Quelle horror. You mean he has to work to support himself like every other adult in the world. It’s shameful that you look down your nose at service workers like Kai.

I posted above about a family member who thinks it’s a decent gig. I agree the situation with Kai is different. And also that not many dcum posters have worked service jobs or know people who do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a family member who works at a place like the white lotus. It’s a pretty good job compared to others at his education level snd especially in the location. It’s interesting that dcumers are largely viewing the hotel jobs as akin to toiling in the salt mines or inherently very demeaning. My family member would like to make more of course but it’s genuinely a pretty good job he enjoys and is glad to have.

What’s the background of your family member? For Kai’s character the job is demeaning. The government stole his family’s ancestral land and he’s working a crappy job on his own land.

It's not really demeaning though. He might feel some internal conflict - as he expresses to Paula - but he seems to feel like it's a pretty good job, worth holding onto. Then she whispers in his ear...

Yes it is, did you purposely ignore the part about his family’s land being stolen? He’s working this job bc his family doesn’t have a lot of money and he has to support himself somehow, anyone would feel demeaned and maybe even traumatized by working a low wage service job on land they rightfully own. This, by the way, is similar to the real stories of many native Hawaiians, similar to Native Americans here. Are you really this clueless?

You realize when he says "His family land was stolen" he does not mean the exact spot where the resort sits but Hawaii as a general place right? Do you think he means the exact spot the resort sits on? Are you really that clueless?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found it interesting that all of the weakest, “worst” characters were all still very tethered to their parents in adulthood, as if they’re just perpetual little children. We saw Rachel call her mom, Olivia went and cried to her mom, Shane’s mom shows up on his honeymoon, Tanya’s literally carrying her dead mom around, Mark’s problems spiraled when he found out about his dad’s past... By contrast, we know nothing at all about the families of Armond, Belinda, or Paula. They’re out there making their own ways without the benefit of (or burden from) parental ties. And then there’s Quinn, who seems to have found redemption in choosing Mother Earth over his own mother.

Paula is way worse than Rachel.

Paula was at least genuinely trying to help someone else, misguided as it was. Rachel’s only trying to help herself.

Was she, though, or was she just trying to screw over the Mossbachers?

This. She wasn’t helping Kai, she was exacting revenge on the Mossbachers for being successful white people. Which is ironic considering how comfortable she is this environment, which shows she comes from a place of extraordinary privilege.

I don't know why people think Paula is less wealthy than the Mossbachers. She presumably goes to the same college as Olivia which is probably Ivy league caliber given her high performing mom. Due to being a POC, Paula is slightly more aware of social issues than her white friends.

They make a point in the beginning where Paula says how appreciative she is that the Mossbacher's brought her on the trip. I thought that maybe she was at the college on scholarship, and is Olivia's token POC friend.

She might be Olivia’s token POC friend but nowhere does it say she is a scholarship student. She can politely say thank you and be appreciative without being automatically poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found it interesting that all of the weakest, “worst” characters were all still very tethered to their parents in adulthood, as if they’re just perpetual little children. We saw Rachel call her mom, Olivia went and cried to her mom, Shane’s mom shows up on his honeymoon, Tanya’s literally carrying her dead mom around, Mark’s problems spiraled when he found out about his dad’s past... By contrast, we know nothing at all about the families of Armond, Belinda, or Paula. They’re out there making their own ways without the benefit of (or burden from) parental ties. And then there’s Quinn, who seems to have found redemption in choosing Mother Earth over his own mother.

Paula is way worse than Rachel.

Paula was at least genuinely trying to help someone else, misguided as it was. Rachel’s only trying to help herself.

Was she, though, or was she just trying to screw over the Mossbachers?

This. She wasn’t helping Kai, she was exacting revenge on the Mossbachers for being successful white people. Which is ironic considering how comfortable she is this environment, which shows she comes from a place of extraordinary privilege.

I don't know why people think Paula is less wealthy than the Mossbachers. She presumably goes to the same college as Olivia which is probably Ivy league caliber given her high performing mom. Due to being a POC, Paula is slightly more aware of social issues than her white friends.

They make a point in the beginning where Paula says how appreciative she is that the Mossbacher's brought her on the trip. I thought that maybe she was at the college on scholarship, and is Olivia's token POC friend.

She might be Olivia’s token POC friend but nowhere does it say she is a scholarship student. She can politely say thank you and be appreciative without being automatically poor.

It’s creepy that people assume she’s poor and on a scholarship because she’s a POC. No where in the script or in the actors portrayal is it implied that Paula is poorer than Olivia. She has the same mannerisms and attitude of her UC peers. The tension between her and the Mossbachers is that they’re right and she’s poor, it’s that intricate dynamic between UC white people bs UC POC. All of her wealth and belonging in the same class as them doesn’t erase the micro aggressions they subject her to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a family member who works at a place like the white lotus. It’s a pretty good job compared to others at his education level snd especially in the location. It’s interesting that dcumers are largely viewing the hotel jobs as akin to toiling in the salt mines or inherently very demeaning. My family member would like to make more of course but it’s genuinely a pretty good job he enjoys and is glad to have.

What’s the background of your family member? For Kai’s character the job is demeaning. The government stole his family’s ancestral land and he’s working a crappy job on his own land.

It's not really demeaning though. He might feel some internal conflict - as he expresses to Paula - but he seems to feel like it's a pretty good job, worth holding onto. Then she whispers in his ear...

Yes it is, did you purposely ignore the part about his family’s land being stolen? He’s working this job bc his family doesn’t have a lot of money and he has to support himself somehow, anyone would feel demeaned and maybe even traumatized by working a low wage service job on land they rightfully own. This, by the way, is similar to the real stories of many native Hawaiians, similar to Native Americans here. Are you really this clueless?

You realize when he says "His family land was stolen" he does not mean the exact spot where the resort sits but Hawaii as a general place right? Do you think he means the exact spot the resort sits on? Are you really that clueless?

No idiot, he literally says in the show that land owned by his family/community was taken by the US government and sold to hotel developers who built the resort. That’s why his family is suing for that land and they’re pissed that he works there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a family member who works at a place like the white lotus. It’s a pretty good job compared to others at his education level snd especially in the location. It’s interesting that dcumers are largely viewing the hotel jobs as akin to toiling in the salt mines or inherently very demeaning. My family member would like to make more of course but it’s genuinely a pretty good job he enjoys and is glad to have.

What’s the background of your family member? For Kai’s character the job is demeaning. The government stole his family’s ancestral land and he’s working a crappy job on his own land.

It's not really demeaning though. He might feel some internal conflict - as he expresses to Paula - but he seems to feel like it's a pretty good job, worth holding onto. Then she whispers in his ear...

Yes it is, did you purposely ignore the part about his family’s land being stolen? He’s working this job bc his family doesn’t have a lot of money and he has to support himself somehow, anyone would feel demeaned and maybe even traumatized by working a low wage service job on land they rightfully own. This, by the way, is similar to the real stories of many native Hawaiians, similar to Native Americans here. Are you really this clueless?

You realize when he says "His family land was stolen" he does not mean the exact spot where the resort sits but Hawaii as a general place right? Do you think he means the exact spot the resort sits on? Are you really that clueless?

No idiot, he literally says in the show that land owned by his family/community was taken by the US government and sold to hotel developers who built the resort. That’s why his family is suing for that land and they’re pissed that he works there.

What year do you think that happened, given Hawaiian history? Do you think Kai was alive then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a family member who works at a place like the white lotus. It’s a pretty good job compared to others at his education level snd especially in the location. It’s interesting that dcumers are largely viewing the hotel jobs as akin to toiling in the salt mines or inherently very demeaning. My family member would like to make more of course but it’s genuinely a pretty good job he enjoys and is glad to have.

What’s the background of your family member? For Kai’s character the job is demeaning. The government stole his family’s ancestral land and he’s working a crappy job on his own land.

It's not really demeaning though. He might feel some internal conflict - as he expresses to Paula - but he seems to feel like it's a pretty good job, worth holding onto. Then she whispers in his ear...

Yes it is, did you purposely ignore the part about his family’s land being stolen? He’s working this job bc his family doesn’t have a lot of money and he has to support himself somehow, anyone would feel demeaned and maybe even traumatized by working a low wage service job on land they rightfully own. This, by the way, is similar to the real stories of many native Hawaiians, similar to Native Americans here. Are you really this clueless?

You realize when he says "His family land was stolen" he does not mean the exact spot where the resort sits but Hawaii as a general place right? Do you think he means the exact spot the resort sits on? Are you really that clueless?

No idiot, he literally says in the show that land owned by his family/community was taken by the US government and sold to hotel developers who built the resort. That’s why his family is suing for that land and they’re pissed that he works there.

What year do you think that happened, given Hawaiian history? Do you think Kai was alive then?

NP.
It was hard from what little he said whether this was generations ago, or more recent.
Eminent domain seizures still happens in the US. They take land from lower class and middle class for developers. Usually they give a “fair” price but the developers still make a killing on it.
This is one where they “condemned” land in Hawaii so they could have a public beach. They started the process in 2011 - not 1911.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Articles-Main/ID/17385/Hawaii-ICA-Bungles-Hanalei-River-Eminent-Domain-Case

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found it interesting that all of the weakest, “worst” characters were all still very tethered to their parents in adulthood, as if they’re just perpetual little children. We saw Rachel call her mom, Olivia went and cried to her mom, Shane’s mom shows up on his honeymoon, Tanya’s literally carrying her dead mom around, Mark’s problems spiraled when he found out about his dad’s past... By contrast, we know nothing at all about the families of Armond, Belinda, or Paula. They’re out there making their own ways without the benefit of (or burden from) parental ties. And then there’s Quinn, who seems to have found redemption in choosing Mother Earth over his own mother.

Paula is way worse than Rachel.

Paula was at least genuinely trying to help someone else, misguided as it was. Rachel’s only trying to help herself.

Was she, though, or was she just trying to screw over the Mossbachers?

This. She wasn’t helping Kai, she was exacting revenge on the Mossbachers for being successful white people. Which is ironic considering how comfortable she is this environment, which shows she comes from a place of extraordinary privilege.

I don't know why people think Paula is less wealthy than the Mossbachers. She presumably goes to the same college as Olivia which is probably Ivy league caliber given her high performing mom. Due to being a POC, Paula is slightly more aware of social issues than her white friends.

They make a point in the beginning where Paula says how appreciative she is that the Mossbacher's brought her on the trip. I thought that maybe she was at the college on scholarship, and is Olivia's token POC friend.

She might be Olivia’s token POC friend but nowhere does it say she is a scholarship student. She can politely say thank you and be appreciative without being automatically poor.

It’s creepy that people assume she’s poor and on a scholarship because she’s a POC. No where in the script or in the actors portrayal is it implied that Paula is poorer than Olivia. She has the same mannerisms and attitude of her UC peers. The tension between her and the Mossbachers is that they’re right and she’s poor, it’s that intricate dynamic between UC white people bs UC POC. All of her wealth and belonging in the same class as them doesn’t erase the micro aggressions they subject her to.

To be honest, initially I assumed she was the same class as the Mossbacher’s. She fit right in.
But when she went down the path with Kai - it made me think that she may be not as wealthy, and resentful of the Mossbachers wealth. The fact that she was ok with stealing because they are rich - but not offering him any of her money - was telling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a family member who works at a place like the white lotus. It’s a pretty good job compared to others at his education level snd especially in the location. It’s interesting that dcumers are largely viewing the hotel jobs as akin to toiling in the salt mines or inherently very demeaning. My family member would like to make more of course but it’s genuinely a pretty good job he enjoys and is glad to have.

What’s the background of your family member? For Kai’s character the job is demeaning. The government stole his family’s ancestral land and he’s working a crappy job on his own land.

It's not really demeaning though. He might feel some internal conflict - as he expresses to Paula - but he seems to feel like it's a pretty good job, worth holding onto. Then she whispers in his ear...

Yes it is, did you purposely ignore the part about his family’s land being stolen? He’s working this job bc his family doesn’t have a lot of money and he has to support himself somehow, anyone would feel demeaned and maybe even traumatized by working a low wage service job on land they rightfully own. This, by the way, is similar to the real stories of many native Hawaiians, similar to Native Americans here. Are you really this clueless?

You realize when he says "His family land was stolen" he does not mean the exact spot where the resort sits but Hawaii as a general place right? Do you think he means the exact spot the resort sits on? Are you really that clueless?

No idiot, he literally says in the show that land owned by his family/community was taken by the US government and sold to hotel developers who built the resort. That’s why his family is suing for that land and they’re pissed that he works there.

What year do you think that happened, given Hawaiian history? Do you think Kai was alive then?

NP.
It was hard from what little he said whether this was generations ago, or more recent.
Eminent domain seizures still happens in the US. They take land from lower class and middle class for developers. Usually they give a “fair” price but the developers still make a killing on it.
This is one where they “condemned” land in Hawaii so they could have a public beach. They started the process in 2011 - not 1911.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Articles-Main/ID/17385/Hawaii-ICA-Bungles-Hanalei-River-Eminent-Domain-Case

Have you heard any cases of eminent domain being used to build a hotel? I haven't, but I am willing to look at any links to stories suggesting this might have happened to Kai during his lifetime.

Not trying to diminish the cruelty toward native Hawaiians. But I think we have to keep the likely timeframe in mind when considering how Kai talked and what he did, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found it interesting that all of the weakest, “worst” characters were all still very tethered to their parents in adulthood, as if they’re just perpetual little children. We saw Rachel call her mom, Olivia went and cried to her mom, Shane’s mom shows up on his honeymoon, Tanya’s literally carrying her dead mom around, Mark’s problems spiraled when he found out about his dad’s past... By contrast, we know nothing at all about the families of Armond, Belinda, or Paula. They’re out there making their own ways without the benefit of (or burden from) parental ties. And then there’s Quinn, who seems to have found redemption in choosing Mother Earth over his own mother.

Paula is way worse than Rachel.

Paula was at least genuinely trying to help someone else, misguided as it was. Rachel’s only trying to help herself.

Was she, though, or was she just trying to screw over the Mossbachers?

This. She wasn’t helping Kai, she was exacting revenge on the Mossbachers for being successful white people. Which is ironic considering how comfortable she is this environment, which shows she comes from a place of extraordinary privilege.

I don't know why people think Paula is less wealthy than the Mossbachers. She presumably goes to the same college as Olivia which is probably Ivy league caliber given her high performing mom. Due to being a POC, Paula is slightly more aware of social issues than her white friends.

They make a point in the beginning where Paula says how appreciative she is that the Mossbacher's brought her on the trip. I thought that maybe she was at the college on scholarship, and is Olivia's token POC friend.

She might be Olivia’s token POC friend but nowhere does it say she is a scholarship student. She can politely say thank you and be appreciative without being automatically poor.

It’s creepy that people assume she’s poor and on a scholarship because she’s a POC. No where in the script or in the actors portrayal is it implied that Paula is poorer than Olivia. She has the same mannerisms and attitude of her UC peers. The tension between her and the Mossbachers is that they’re right and she’s poor, it’s that intricate dynamic between UC white people bs UC POC. All of her wealth and belonging in the same class as them doesn’t erase the micro aggressions they subject her to.

To be honest, initially I assumed she was the same class as the Mossbacher’s. She fit right in.
But when she went down the path with Kai - it made me think that she may be not as wealthy, and resentful of the Mossbachers wealth. The fact that she was ok with stealing because they are rich - but not offering him any of her money - was telling.

Good point. I think she may not be generationally wealthy or has less well to do relatives so despite her own social status, she has a broader world view than Olivia and her family. Also her grossness at the Olivia’s family’s wealth and entitlement may just come from her woke view of the world. She might be rich too but isn’t as obsessed with wealth and status.

[Anonymous]

I just finished last night and have enjoyed reading the last few pages but wanted to get my thoughts out.

First, I feel like what this show does incredibly well is critique the casual cruelty of being UMC and being white. The casual conversation, its effortless and inadvertent cruelty and cringiness, I found that to be so...illuminating? I'm not sure the right word. I grew up in a family like the Mossbachers, not THAT rich but definitely wealthy enough to relate to them. And while I found Olivia to be just awful I also was like, wow that is me in my family! Making conversations uncomfortable by calling out their casual microaggressions while almost certainly doing it myself in smaller ways. And they are my tribe, that comment by Paula struck me. It was just so accurate.

But the show also portrays them all as sympathetic. They are all complex people with motivations that are equally complex.

Even Shane, horrible, he loves Rachel, you can see that. He isn't really even abusive. Other than a couple moments when he got mad he was overall not bad to her. And honestly I'd be angry if I just got married and my spouse said they made a huge mistake too.

I think it is weird how everyone thinks that all the staff were portrayed as miserable. I thought they did an interesting job at even describing the differences THERE. Armond seems pretty well off, although someone for whom it matters that he keeps his job. So not WEALTHY but also doing just fine. I would bet that is a 100k+ a year job. The white guys he parties with seem totally fine, but it is clear that the stakes are lower for them. Lani is struggling, but she is also not treated badly. Armond feels terrible about her situation, she got medical treatment. Belinda has a very good job that I bet pays 50-80k a year. Not enough to save up to do her own business but also not in a terrible situation. They seem like people who have good jobs in nice environments that they are relatively happy with but who roll their eyes at the privilege of their guests and sometimes, like anyone who has ever worked retail, having an outsized reaction to a particularly annoying person.

I agree Kai was not that pressed about his job.

So the staff aren't miserable, but the show DOES illustrate very clearly how they are treated as less than human. We, the viewers, particularly the DCUM viewers, see with shame how they are treated. Because we all participate in that tourism industry and we all know these people are treated badly and so we feel bad participating in the industry. I think this is similar to how people feel shame in having a cleaning lady. The cleaning lady has a good job, works hard and hopefully has dignity in their work. But the person who hires her would feel shame if THEY were a cleaning lady and so treats her WORSE for their own biases towards service work. If I would never be a cleaning lady, then I feel bad for cleaning ladies, even if they are happy and fulfilled. I impose my own class judgements on them while simultaneously expecting them to fulfil their role.

And then you have Tanya, who doesn't do this, who respects Belinda for who she is. But who, despite understanding the power imbalance in their relationship, shows no care for Belinda. She uses up all of her giving nature while leading her along (and not maliciously!) and then at the end shakes it all off like it didn't matter. Because it doesn't matter to her.

So many thoughts! I agree with other posters that Paula is certainly not poor. She is effortlessly comfortable in the environment and comes with a bag packed with pills. If she isn't wealthy herself, then she is firmly enmeshed in wealthy circles to the point where she spends most of her time in them. I think it is interesting they had her perform the most clear act of meaningless woke-ness. She tries to help him in a way that inevitably deeply hurts him. Probably ruins his whole life. And then she throws the necklace overboard, accepts no responsibility and leaves with her relationship with her friend intact.

Such interesting and IMO a very real portrayal of people and how they think/interact/deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just finished last night and have enjoyed reading the last few pages but wanted to get my thoughts out.

First, I feel like what this show does incredibly well is critique the casual cruelty of being UMC and being white. The casual conversation, its effortless and inadvertent cruelty and cringiness, I found that to be so...illuminating? I'm not sure the right word. I grew up in a family like the Mossbachers, not THAT rich but definitely wealthy enough to relate to them. And while I found Olivia to be just awful I also was like, wow that is me in my family! Making conversations uncomfortable by calling out their casual microaggressions while almost certainly doing it myself in smaller ways. And they are my tribe, that comment by Paula struck me. It was just so accurate.

But the show also portrays them all as sympathetic. They are all complex people with motivations that are equally complex.

Even Shane, horrible, he loves Rachel, you can see that. He isn't really even abusive. Other than a couple moments when he got mad he was overall not bad to her. And honestly I'd be angry if I just got married and my spouse said they made a huge mistake too.

I think it is weird how everyone thinks that all the staff were portrayed as miserable. I thought they did an interesting job at even describing the differences THERE. Armond seems pretty well off, although someone for whom it matters that he keeps his job. So not WEALTHY but also doing just fine. I would bet that is a 100k+ a year job. The white guys he parties with seem totally fine, but it is clear that the stakes are lower for them. Lani is struggling, but she is also not treated badly. Armond feels terrible about her situation, she got medical treatment. Belinda has a very good job that I bet pays 50-80k a year. Not enough to save up to do her own business but also not in a terrible situation. They seem like people who have good jobs in nice environments that they are relatively happy with but who roll their eyes at the privilege of their guests and sometimes, like anyone who has ever worked retail, having an outsized reaction to a particularly annoying person.

I agree Kai was not that pressed about his job.

So the staff aren't miserable, but the show DOES illustrate very clearly how they are treated as less than human. We, the viewers, particularly the DCUM viewers, see with shame how they are treated. Because we all participate in that tourism industry and we all know these people are treated badly and so we feel bad participating in the industry. I think this is similar to how people feel shame in having a cleaning lady. The cleaning lady has a good job, works hard and hopefully has dignity in their work. But the person who hires her would feel shame if THEY were a cleaning lady and so treats her WORSE for their own biases towards service work. If I would never be a cleaning lady, then I feel bad for cleaning ladies, even if they are happy and fulfilled. I impose my own class judgements on them while simultaneously expecting them to fulfil their role.

And then you have Tanya, who doesn't do this, who respects Belinda for who she is. But who, despite understanding the power imbalance in their relationship, shows no care for Belinda. She uses up all of her giving nature while leading her along (and not maliciously!) and then at the end shakes it all off like it didn't matter. Because it doesn't matter to her.

So many thoughts! I agree with other posters that Paula is certainly not poor. She is effortlessly comfortable in the environment and comes with a bag packed with pills. If she isn't wealthy herself, then she is firmly enmeshed in wealthy circles to the point where she spends most of her time in them. I think it is interesting they had her perform the most clear act of meaningless woke-ness. She tries to help him in a way that inevitably deeply hurts him. Probably ruins his whole life. And then she throws the necklace overboard, accepts no responsibility and leaves with her relationship with her friend intact.

Such interesting and IMO a very real portrayal of people and how they think/interact/deal.

Kewl story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a family member who works at a place like the white lotus. It’s a pretty good job compared to others at his education level snd especially in the location. It’s interesting that dcumers are largely viewing the hotel jobs as akin to toiling in the salt mines or inherently very demeaning. My family member would like to make more of course but it’s genuinely a pretty good job he enjoys and is glad to have.

What’s the background of your family member? For Kai’s character the job is demeaning. The government stole his family’s ancestral land and he’s working a crappy job on his own land.

It's not really demeaning though. He might feel some internal conflict - as he expresses to Paula - but he seems to feel like it's a pretty good job, worth holding onto. Then she whispers in his ear...

Yes it is, did you purposely ignore the part about his family’s land being stolen? He’s working this job bc his family doesn’t have a lot of money and he has to support himself somehow, anyone would feel demeaned and maybe even traumatized by working a low wage service job on land they rightfully own. This, by the way, is similar to the real stories of many native Hawaiians, similar to Native Americans here. Are you really this clueless?

You realize when he says "His family land was stolen" he does not mean the exact spot where the resort sits but Hawaii as a general place right? Do you think he means the exact spot the resort sits on? Are you really that clueless?

No idiot, he literally says in the show that land owned by his family/community was taken by the US government and sold to hotel developers who built the resort. That’s why his family is suing for that land and they’re pissed that he works there.

What year do you think that happened, given Hawaiian history? Do you think Kai was alive then?

NP.
It was hard from what little he said whether this was generations ago, or more recent.
Eminent domain seizures still happens in the US. They take land from lower class and middle class for developers. Usually they give a “fair” price but the developers still make a killing on it.
This is one where they “condemned” land in Hawaii so they could have a public beach. They started the process in 2011 - not 1911.
http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/Articles-Main/ID/17385/Hawaii-ICA-Bungles-Hanalei-River-Eminent-Domain-Case

Have you heard any cases of eminent domain being used to build a hotel? I haven't, but I am willing to look at any links to stories suggesting this might have happened to Kai during his lifetime.

Not trying to diminish the cruelty toward native Hawaiians. But I think we have to keep the likely timeframe in mind when considering how Kai talked and what he did, too.

NP here. This isn't an exactly analogous situation, which you seem to be looking for, but a very famous (infamous) eminent domain case: https://ij.org/case/kelo/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found it interesting that all of the weakest, “worst” characters were all still very tethered to their parents in adulthood, as if they’re just perpetual little children. We saw Rachel call her mom, Olivia went and cried to her mom, Shane’s mom shows up on his honeymoon, Tanya’s literally carrying her dead mom around, Mark’s problems spiraled when he found out about his dad’s past... By contrast, we know nothing at all about the families of Armond, Belinda, or Paula. They’re out there making their own ways without the benefit of (or burden from) parental ties. And then there’s Quinn, who seems to have found redemption in choosing Mother Earth over his own mother.

Paula is way worse than Rachel.

Paula was at least genuinely trying to help someone else, misguided as it was. Rachel’s only trying to help herself.

Was she, though, or was she just trying to screw over the Mossbachers?

This. She wasn’t helping Kai, she was exacting revenge on the Mossbachers for being successful white people. Which is ironic considering how comfortable she is this environment, which shows she comes from a place of extraordinary privilege.

I don't know why people think Paula is less wealthy than the Mossbachers. She presumably goes to the same college as Olivia which is probably Ivy league caliber given her high performing mom. Due to being a POC, Paula is slightly more aware of social issues than her white friends.

They make a point in the beginning where Paula says how appreciative she is that the Mossbacher's brought her on the trip. I thought that maybe she was at the college on scholarship, and is Olivia's token POC friend.

She might be Olivia’s token POC friend but nowhere does it say she is a scholarship student. She can politely say thank you and be appreciative without being automatically poor.

Agree. She seemed just as snobby and bratty as Olivia, albeit with a little more self awareness. Anyone would thank a host so I didn’t think that was indicative of her family’s socioeconomic status. The writers left it up to our imagination a bit. They didn’t spell it out either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found it interesting that all of the weakest, “worst” characters were all still very tethered to their parents in adulthood, as if they’re just perpetual little children. We saw Rachel call her mom, Olivia went and cried to her mom, Shane’s mom shows up on his honeymoon, Tanya’s literally carrying her dead mom around, Mark’s problems spiraled when he found out about his dad’s past... By contrast, we know nothing at all about the families of Armond, Belinda, or Paula. They’re out there making their own ways without the benefit of (or burden from) parental ties. And then there’s Quinn, who seems to have found redemption in choosing Mother Earth over his own mother.

Paula is way worse than Rachel.

Paula was at least genuinely trying to help someone else, misguided as it was. Rachel’s only trying to help herself.

Was she, though, or was she just trying to screw over the Mossbachers?

This. She wasn’t helping Kai, she was exacting revenge on the Mossbachers for being successful white people. Which is ironic considering how comfortable she is this environment, which shows she comes from a place of extraordinary privilege.

I don't know why people think Paula is less wealthy than the Mossbachers. She presumably goes to the same college as Olivia which is probably Ivy league caliber given her high performing mom. Due to being a POC, Paula is slightly more aware of social issues than her white friends.

They make a point in the beginning where Paula says how appreciative she is that the Mossbacher's brought her on the trip. I thought that maybe she was at the college on scholarship, and is Olivia's token POC friend.

She might be Olivia’s token POC friend but nowhere does it say she is a scholarship student. She can politely say thank you and be appreciative without being automatically poor.

Agree. She seemed just as snobby and bratty as Olivia, albeit with a little more self awareness. Anyone would thank a host so I didn’t think that was indicative of her family’s socioeconomic status. The writers left it up to our imagination a bit. They didn’t spell it out either way.

Yeah. My family took mine and my siblings friends, and even my HS boyfriend on family vacations with us when I was in high school and college. It wasn’t a charity case. We all went to the same private school and for the most part had similar lifestyles. It was for our entertainment because teens can be miseries when not socializing.