Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of kids in competitive sports drive to other jurisdictions to participate in teams based on lack of availability in Arlington. Its not some god given right that your sport will have a competitive team that’s nearby.

Exactly! We've been driving my son to PG county Maryland for the past 4-5 years for his chosen travel sport. Arlington taxpayers should not have to subsidize a small (relative to county size) group of elite gymnasts when it does not subsidize or provide free fields for other rec or travel sports. That said, I think the county can still offer gymnastics and charge enough to hire good instructors and maintain a section of the facility.

Eh hem, (cough) swim. Looking at the $3m subsidy to Long Bridge with basically no increase to AAC fees this year, despite fees being far, far below market rate compared to comparable programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving to South Arlington this summer - where should I get on the waitlist so she can do gymnastics?!

sorry - for a 7 year old

You can try Dynamic, but you'll likely be on the wait list for at least 1-2 years before you get in.

Other options are Cardinal in Fairfax, Mosaic in Fairfax, or Apex in Leesburg.

+1

Plus Capital in Burke, MEGA in Lorton, and The St James has a growing program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

The existing coaches will leave if you cut the competitive team. They want to coach competitive gymnastics and are trained to do so. It's not a high paying job, but is a passion. These same coaches may also teach rec classes, but they aren't going to stop wanting to coach competitive gymnastics.

They can be hired by the boosters to coach competitive gymnastics when you spin off and take over this team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

What did I say that would require this data to back up the statement? I correctly said the DPR woman said they cancel rec classes to support the competitive team. Maybe she’s a bald faced liar.

In any case they aren’t saying there isn’t demand and waitlists. They are saying they are not able to meet the demand and explaining why. They are saying the inability to meet the demand means they can’t subsidize the competitive team. And they are saying this level of offering by a county is not common and maybe not something the county can afford anymore.

Why are people supposed to just accept it is their job to meet all demand and if they can’t they are losers and that’s the end of the story. My kid got shut out of rec volleyball this year. All this stuff has waitlists. I have tried in years but it used to be hard to get swim instruction classes. We live in an area that is like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

She did say 13 competitive gymnasts get a fee reduction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

What did I say that would require this data to back up the statement? I correctly said the DPR woman said they cancel rec classes to support the competitive team. Maybe she’s a bald faced liar.

In any case they aren’t saying there isn’t demand and waitlists. They are saying they are not able to meet the demand and explaining why. They are saying the inability to meet the demand means they can’t subsidize the competitive team. And they are saying this level of offering by a county is not common and maybe not something the county can afford anymore.

Why are people supposed to just accept it is their job to meet all demand and if they can’t they are losers and that’s the end of the story. My kid got shut out of rec volleyball this year. All this stuff has waitlists. I have tried in years but it used to be hard to get swim instruction classes. We live in an area that is like that.

DPR didn't say what they did to fill in when classes are canceled. The DPR lady said that when schools were closed they opened Long Bridge for family swim. When they can't offer rec classes because they're short coaches, they're not offering open gyms (which just need 1-2 staff to supervise). They aren't trying to cover costs. Prior to this announcement they never engaged the gymnastics community or asked for help or shared that there was even a problem. They haven't considered other class options, like cheer or ninja. That's the frustration. Arlington spent money to build this amenity to satisfy an overwhelming demand but DPR can't seem to be bothered to run the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

She did say 13 competitive gymnasts get a fee reduction.

Plus 7 male gymnasts. This wasn't in the slides. She also absolutely dodged the question re rec participants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

What did I say that would require this data to back up the statement? I correctly said the DPR woman said they cancel rec classes to support the competitive team. Maybe she’s a bald faced liar.

In any case they aren’t saying there isn’t demand and waitlists. They are saying they are not able to meet the demand and explaining why. They are saying the inability to meet the demand means they can’t subsidize the competitive team. And they are saying this level of offering by a county is not common and maybe not something the county can afford anymore.

Why are people supposed to just accept it is their job to meet all demand and if they can’t they are losers and that’s the end of the story. My kid got shut out of rec volleyball this year. All this stuff has waitlists. I have tried in years but it used to be hard to get swim instruction classes. We live in an area that is like that.

DPR didn't say what they did to fill in when classes are canceled. The DPR lady said that when schools were closed they opened Long Bridge for family swim. When they can't offer rec classes because they're short coaches, they're not offering open gyms (which just need 1-2 staff to supervise). They aren't trying to cover costs. Prior to this announcement they never engaged the gymnastics community or asked for help or shared that there was even a problem. They haven't considered other class options, like cheer or ninja. That's the frustration. Arlington spent money to build this amenity to satisfy an overwhelming demand but DPR can't seem to be bothered to run the program.

Do they offer open gyms with all that equipment available and limited supervision? Or is that an idea?

I don’t agree with the basic premise that it is their job to figure out how to cover the costs for a competitive team. They should figure out what benefits the most people, make sure they are equally serving all demographics and meeting community needs which change over time, and attempt to run things efficiently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

She did say 13 competitive gymnasts get a fee reduction.

Plus 7 male gymnasts. This wasn't in the slides. She also absolutely dodged the question re rec participants.

Not trying to be snarky. Is the argument they should not provide fee reductions to any rec programs participants so that they can more fully bring in revenue to support the competitive team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

What did I say that would require this data to back up the statement? I correctly said the DPR woman said they cancel rec classes to support the competitive team. Maybe she’s a bald faced liar.

In any case they aren’t saying there isn’t demand and waitlists. They are saying they are not able to meet the demand and explaining why. They are saying the inability to meet the demand means they can’t subsidize the competitive team. And they are saying this level of offering by a county is not common and maybe not something the county can afford anymore.

Why are people supposed to just accept it is their job to meet all demand and if they can’t they are losers and that’s the end of the story. My kid got shut out of rec volleyball this year. All this stuff has waitlists. I have tried in years but it used to be hard to get swim instruction classes. We live in an area that is like that.

DPR didn't say what they did to fill in when classes are canceled. The DPR lady said that when schools were closed they opened Long Bridge for family swim. When they can't offer rec classes because they're short coaches, they're not offering open gyms (which just need 1-2 staff to supervise). They aren't trying to cover costs. Prior to this announcement they never engaged the gymnastics community or asked for help or shared that there was even a problem. They haven't considered other class options, like cheer or ninja. That's the frustration. Arlington spent money to build this amenity to satisfy an overwhelming demand but DPR can't seem to be bothered to run the program.

Do they offer open gyms with all that equipment available and limited supervision? Or is that an idea?

I don’t agree with the basic premise that it is their job to figure out how to cover the costs for a competitive team. They should figure out what benefits the most people, make sure they are equally serving all demographics and meeting community needs which change over time, and attempt to run things efficiently.

Every gym in the area offers open gyms to fill vacant time. Usually 1-2 staff watch the gym to make sure everyone is behaving safely, so a lower gymnast to staff ratio. The attendees are primarily gymnasts who know how to behave. Super common.

Gyms will also offer parents nights out, snow day camps, school closure day camps, etc. Some staff for these have gymnastics knowledge, but they also have high schoolers or untrained staff to help.

This isnt about just the competitive team. They're also closing the facility for rec and adaptive use, and wasting the county investment in this facility. DPR needs to fill the gym to maximize its value to Arlington. If they can't do that with gymnastics regular classes, they should have been considering and offering other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP what you are demanding is the county work harder to subsidize your competitive gymnastics team. I mean cmon. I don’t want them spending their time doing that as a taxpayer.

DPR's time is compensated by the fees they earn from rec classes. If they aren't doing their job and they keep cutting offerings year over year, then revenue keeps dropping year over year, resulting in cuts year over year. This year it's gymnastics. Next year it could be swim or senior programs or teen programs. It's a downward spiral. There's no reason the gymnastics program can't be self-supporting and offer gymnastics to a wide range of kids and adults in Arlington.

Well they said there is a reason. they can’t hire qualified people to teach this activity safely and they said other activities they’ve been able to bounce back and hire people. They mentioned life guards.

I think a disconnect is perhaps their standards of who to hire don’t match what you all find acceptable. I guess it’s their gym and they should figure out what risk they can tolerate.

So if there aren't gymnastics coaches, why don't they hire cheer coaches or someone to teach ninja classes or fitness classes in the space? Why don't they offer open gyms with a higher gymnast to staff ratio? Why don't they offer more toddler and preschool classes that require a lower skill level for the coaches? Why don't they offer birthday parties or private lessons that have a much higher margin? All of these are things that other gyms do.

so that the competitive team can be subsidized. Just to be clear that this is what you are suggesting.

Not just the competitive team but also rec gymnastics and adaptive. Those are all caught up in the same outcome. The facility needs to be fully utilized.

They are not though really because the county can figure out other ways to provide these programs at much lower cost.

They cannot provide rec gymnastics without a facility. Nor can the other local facilities absorb those gymnasts. Dynamic has sent a letter saying they have huge waiting lists for their classes and YMCA is similarly full.

They do not need that extensive of a facility to offer basic recreational and adaptive gymastics classes. Topic well covered on this thread.

The facility is already there. Coming up with a different facility would cost money.

The county should not be providing gymnastics at the level it is currently. It is not appropriate and apparently not typical. They don’t need to come up with some other specific facility to offer basic gymnastics. As described by another poster, basic equipment can be brought out at existing rec centers.

Flip flopping makes no sense. The county invested to expand the facility in 2017. It makes no sense to abandon that investment now. DPR should stand by their investment and make use of the facility to benefit county residents.

Did you have this energy when they tore down the children’s school building to build Cardinal 10 years after they built it? Doubt it.

I don’t know. Things change. It’s 10 years later. The premise of if we built it or invested in it we can never change it is flawed.

The fundamentals haven't changed. There are 1300 kids on waitlists for DPR gymnastics classes at Barcroft, plus 1800 kids in rec classes. There is absolutely no capacity in the area for Arlington kids to do gymnastics elsewhere. That's why Barcroft was expanded. Read the DPR press announcement--it was done because of overwhelming community demand. That demand is being entirely ignored by DPR.

It’s not. They are saying they can’t find qualified instructors. You can accuse them of lying about this or being incompetent, which is what people here have done. You can suggest their standards of instruction are too high, which people here have done. What seems silly to say is they are ignoring the demand.

They are canceling rec classes to be sure the available coaches can be provided to the competitive team. So maybe jettisoning the competitive team will help with the waitlists.

Show me the DPR slide where they showed demand data and waitlist data? They didn't. Instead the presented a generic survey to argue that gymnastics was a low priority.

They also didn't present or answer questions about rec students on fee waivers who can't afford to go elsewhere.

She did say 13 competitive gymnasts get a fee reduction.

Plus 7 male gymnasts. This wasn't in the slides. She also absolutely dodged the question re rec participants.

Not trying to be snarky. Is the argument they should not provide fee reductions to any rec programs participants so that they can more fully bring in revenue to support the competitive team?

No, that they should be transparent. They carve out fee reductions for swim, but count these fees for gymnastics. The county board is also more willing to subsidize those in need and to do that they need to know that magnitude for gymnastics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of kids in competitive sports drive to other jurisdictions to participate in teams based on lack of availability in Arlington. Its not some god given right that your sport will have a competitive team that’s nearby.

Exactly! We've been driving my son to PG county Maryland for the past 4-5 years for his chosen travel sport. Arlington taxpayers should not have to subsidize a small (relative to county size) group of elite gymnasts when it does not subsidize or provide free fields for other rec or travel sports. That said, I think the county can still offer gymnastics and charge enough to hire good instructors and maintain a section of the facility.

Eh hem, (cough) swim. Looking at the $3m subsidy to Long Bridge with basically no increase to AAC fees this year, despite fees being far, far below market rate compared to comparable programs.

As has been extensively discussed on this thread, swim is more than a niche youth sport. Long Bridge is used for water safety classes, exercise classes (especially for the elderly or people with joint and mobility programs), learn-to-swim for kids (a safety measure that saves lives), AND competitive swim. The gymnastics program is not comparable. Gymnastics, especially at the level that Bancroft is designed for (competitive, high level, teen gymnastics) is inherently dangerous in a way that a pool is not, and the Barcroft facility cannot easily serve a wide range of ages and needs the way the pool at Long Bridge can. Sure, there are adult and toddler and adaptive gymnastics programs at Barcroft, but none of them fully use the facility. The facility was built to suit high level competitive gymnasts and then it is sometimes partially used for other purposes. Whereas Long Bridge was built to serve the entire community, and the competitive team simply uses it they way a competitive team might use any pool. It wasn't built for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of kids in competitive sports drive to other jurisdictions to participate in teams based on lack of availability in Arlington. Its not some god given right that your sport will have a competitive team that’s nearby.

Exactly! We've been driving my son to PG county Maryland for the past 4-5 years for his chosen travel sport. Arlington taxpayers should not have to subsidize a small (relative to county size) group of elite gymnasts when it does not subsidize or provide free fields for other rec or travel sports. That said, I think the county can still offer gymnastics and charge enough to hire good instructors and maintain a section of the facility.

Eh hem, (cough) swim. Looking at the $3m subsidy to Long Bridge with basically no increase to AAC fees this year, despite fees being far, far below market rate compared to comparable programs.

As has been extensively discussed on this thread, swim is more than a niche youth sport. Long Bridge is used for water safety classes, exercise classes (especially for the elderly or people with joint and mobility programs), learn-to-swim for kids (a safety measure that saves lives), AND competitive swim. The gymnastics program is not comparable. Gymnastics, especially at the level that Bancroft is designed for (competitive, high level, teen gymnastics) is inherently dangerous in a way that a pool is not, and the Barcroft facility cannot easily serve a wide range of ages and needs the way the pool at Long Bridge can. Sure, there are adult and toddler and adaptive gymnastics programs at Barcroft, but none of them fully use the facility. The facility was built to suit high level competitive gymnasts and then it is sometimes partially used for other purposes. Whereas Long Bridge was built to serve the entire community, and the competitive team simply uses it they way a competitive team might use any pool. It wasn't built for them.

AAC fees are HALF those of comparable programs in the area, including for families in $5m homes. Yet we're donating $3m to Long Bridge next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of kids in competitive sports drive to other jurisdictions to participate in teams based on lack of availability in Arlington. Its not some god given right that your sport will have a competitive team that’s nearby.

Exactly! We've been driving my son to PG county Maryland for the past 4-5 years for his chosen travel sport. Arlington taxpayers should not have to subsidize a small (relative to county size) group of elite gymnasts when it does not subsidize or provide free fields for other rec or travel sports. That said, I think the county can still offer gymnastics and charge enough to hire good instructors and maintain a section of the facility.

Eh hem, (cough) swim. Looking at the $3m subsidy to Long Bridge with basically no increase to AAC fees this year, despite fees being far, far below market rate compared to comparable programs.

As has been extensively discussed on this thread, swim is more than a niche youth sport. Long Bridge is used for water safety classes, exercise classes (especially for the elderly or people with joint and mobility programs), learn-to-swim for kids (a safety measure that saves lives), AND competitive swim. The gymnastics program is not comparable. Gymnastics, especially at the level that Bancroft is designed for (competitive, high level, teen gymnastics) is inherently dangerous in a way that a pool is not, and the Barcroft facility cannot easily serve a wide range of ages and needs the way the pool at Long Bridge can. Sure, there are adult and toddler and adaptive gymnastics programs at Barcroft, but none of them fully use the facility. The facility was built to suit high level competitive gymnasts and then it is sometimes partially used for other purposes. Whereas Long Bridge was built to serve the entire community, and the competitive team simply uses it they way a competitive team might use any pool. It wasn't built for them.

AAC fees are HALF those of comparable programs in the area, including for families in $5m homes. Yet we're donating $3m to Long Bridge next year.

Note that Long Bridge isn't accessible by public transit, so it's only used by those with cars. It is absolutely not benefiting the whole community. That was even brought up by the County Board.