APS VA Snow Day Projection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You could go help clear the lots instead of armchair quarterbacking.

#dumb

I forgot. You all pay folks to do those things.

Not everyone is in north Arlington

Your suggestion is people should show up and hand shovel school lots?

My suggestion is that we become part of the solution instead of nitpicking online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d love my trash to get picked up, too, but that’s the nature of this storm.

Good news. Unlike schools, trash pickup back to regular schedule this week.

Not true. Arlington limited pick up to trash and recycling. Not green cans

This was an extraordinary weather event. Ice and terribly low temps. It isn’t snow removal but ice block removal.

Warm up starts Tuesday.

Ease up. No city could have handled this.

This is absurd. Many cities handle this all the time. People should be respectful when discussing this, but it's not "hysterical" to point out there are some lessons learned. In the era of climate change, we're going to get more extreme weather. Time to do some thinking on how to better manage these situations. There are so many things we could be doing better and planning for ahead of time. Stating that your government should do this type of review and asking questions and pointing out problems is normal.

Liar.

Some of you have clearly never lived anywhere with actual snow and ice and cold conditions. You think this type of event has never occurred in the history of the world or something? Totally laughable.

I grew up in upstate NY.

Many cities, especially those in the south, do not "handle" this type of icy, packed snow "all of the time". I've lived through several big blizzards and none were as challenging to remove as this. Snowblowers only would have helped for the initial snowfall. Temps were too low to salt roads in advance. It's tough to get heavy equipment into narrow, car-lined neighborhood streets.

The situation sucks. People being irrational dickheads about it aren't helping.

If we are pulling out our credentials, I grew up in western NY and of course southern cities don't deal with this. However, I've now lived in DC for a long time and this type of particular snow situation...snow on a line with rain/ice and follow up icy conditions...is not terribly uncommon as temps are more on the line here. Extended closures are not uncommon. I think the point is there are certainly ways to deal with this more effectively and gee why don't we explore them. Constructive ideas could include alternate bus routes mapped out for consolidated bus stops with cleared waiting areas. Really, anything. Let's just do anything other than sitting around saying it's too hard. Next winter or sadly probably this winter, going to be same story.

The big difference this time was the extended cold temps. Typically, it'd warm up within a few days, the ice would soften, and it'd be easier to deal with the aftermath. That didn't happen this time. Temps have stayed very low for a week.

There was a bus accident on icy roads a few years back when conditions were better than today. I can see why they might err on the side of caution, especially with the high number of lawyer parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d love my trash to get picked up, too, but that’s the nature of this storm.

Good news. Unlike schools, trash pickup back to regular schedule this week.

Not true. Arlington limited pick up to trash and recycling. Not green cans

This was an extraordinary weather event. Ice and terribly low temps. It isn’t snow removal but ice block removal.

Warm up starts Tuesday.

Ease up. No city could have handled this.

This is absurd. Many cities handle this all the time. People should be respectful when discussing this, but it's not "hysterical" to point out there are some lessons learned. In the era of climate change, we're going to get more extreme weather. Time to do some thinking on how to better manage these situations. There are so many things we could be doing better and planning for ahead of time. Stating that your government should do this type of review and asking questions and pointing out problems is normal.

Liar.

Some of you have clearly never lived anywhere with actual snow and ice and cold conditions. You think this type of event has never occurred in the history of the world or something? Totally laughable.

I grew up in upstate NY.

Many cities, especially those in the south, do not "handle" this type of icy, packed snow "all of the time". I've lived through several big blizzards and none were as challenging to remove as this. Snowblowers only would have helped for the initial snowfall. Temps were too low to salt roads in advance. It's tough to get heavy equipment into narrow, car-lined neighborhood streets.

The situation sucks. People being irrational dickheads about it aren't helping.

If we are pulling out our credentials, I grew up in western NY and of course southern cities don't deal with this. However, I've now lived in DC for a long time and this type of particular snow situation...snow on a line with rain/ice and follow up icy conditions...is not terribly uncommon as temps are more on the line here. Extended closures are not uncommon. I think the point is there are certainly ways to deal with this more effectively and gee why don't we explore them. Constructive ideas could include alternate bus routes mapped out for consolidated bus stops with cleared waiting areas. Really, anything. Let's just do anything other than sitting around saying it's too hard. Next winter or sadly probably this winter, going to be same story.

It’s a newer experience here. Hopefully notes are being taken to better prepare in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that would help considerably is much more aggressive salting before during and after the event. This area doesn’t do that.

Because 80% of the time we have rain which washes it all to the Bay.

Yes, I understand the reason we don't use the salt. This stuff is a tradeoff. Possibly when the severity of the event is known and predicted well ahead of time (as this was) and the tricky conditions are known well ahead of time in terms of removal (as this was) well maybe they make a different calculation. Or maybe not.

My thought is only I don't think discussion should be shouted down and nobody is supposed to ask questions or have any critical thought.

Salting the roads in advance only works in certain circumstances.

More aggressive salting would have helped overall in this situation. But they also have to have the salt, somewhere to store the salt, and the proper vehicles to dump the salt.

Temps were too low.

There are products beyond rock salt that can push effectiveness into colder temps. It's silly to debate this just google the topic if interested. You really think some of these colder areas in the US do not face this issue and have solutions? Of course they do.

The other areas of US buy a fleet of heavy snow moving equipment, dump trucks, bobcat plows, to manage the snow. We aren’t going to make that investment for snow every 5 years.

FCPS was out the first week of 2025 last school year for…snow and ice. It’s not every five years and with climate change, they need to invest in actual options. (They won’t).

We were out a lot of that week too and it was this same thing as this event. Temps were cold, snow didn't melt and kids had to go back to school and deal. Not as extreme conditions as this but same issue and there was lots of wailing about going back. Can't expect to be saved by the melt every time anymore.

[Anonymous]

Let's not forget the full week they were out of school following winter break at some point after covid. Not this year, not last year...but some recent year. 2022?
Acting like this never happens is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d love my trash to get picked up, too, but that’s the nature of this storm.

Good news. Unlike schools, trash pickup back to regular schedule this week.

Not true. Arlington limited pick up to trash and recycling. Not green cans

This was an extraordinary weather event. Ice and terribly low temps. It isn’t snow removal but ice block removal.

Warm up starts Tuesday.

Ease up. No city could have handled this.

This is absurd. Many cities handle this all the time. People should be respectful when discussing this, but it's not "hysterical" to point out there are some lessons learned. In the era of climate change, we're going to get more extreme weather. Time to do some thinking on how to better manage these situations. There are so many things we could be doing better and planning for ahead of time. Stating that your government should do this type of review and asking questions and pointing out problems is normal.

Liar.

Some of you have clearly never lived anywhere with actual snow and ice and cold conditions. You think this type of event has never occurred in the history of the world or something? Totally laughable.

I grew up in upstate NY.

Many cities, especially those in the south, do not "handle" this type of icy, packed snow "all of the time". I've lived through several big blizzards and none were as challenging to remove as this. Snowblowers only would have helped for the initial snowfall. Temps were too low to salt roads in advance. It's tough to get heavy equipment into narrow, car-lined neighborhood streets.

The situation sucks. People being irrational dickheads about it aren't helping.

Up north they manage to clear the streets more quickly, before the precipitation has a chance to harden for days. It wasn't that hard to get this stuff off the roads on Sunday or even Monday. We did our cars and sidewalks and it wasn't terrible. But now it's hardened and is so so so much harder to remove.

APS literally had janitors with plastic snow shovels clearing schools. There's no way that's sufficient. Once the stuff is solid, you need heavy plows and bobcats.

We did ours as well. It took 2 of us multiple rounds just to do our sidewalk/driveway. And then more rounds after the plows came through.

Some schools have what 2-3 janitors? To clear the parking lots, sidewalks, etc.? Should each school have a snowblower? Many years, we don't even get snow. It is worth the expense and upkeep?

It was an oddball storm. We will get through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those who commuted to work this morning, how was traffic in and around Arlington?

This morning it was better - some roads were wider and there was more space to maneuver in intersections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that would help considerably is much more aggressive salting before during and after the event. This area doesn’t do that.

Because 80% of the time we have rain which washes it all to the Bay.

Yes, I understand the reason we don't use the salt. This stuff is a tradeoff. Possibly when the severity of the event is known and predicted well ahead of time (as this was) and the tricky conditions are known well ahead of time in terms of removal (as this was) well maybe they make a different calculation. Or maybe not.

My thought is only I don't think discussion should be shouted down and nobody is supposed to ask questions or have any critical thought.

Salting the roads in advance only works in certain circumstances.

More aggressive salting would have helped overall in this situation. But they also have to have the salt, somewhere to store the salt, and the proper vehicles to dump the salt.

Temps were too low.

There are products beyond rock salt that can push effectiveness into colder temps. It's silly to debate this just google the topic if interested. You really think some of these colder areas in the US do not face this issue and have solutions? Of course they do.

The other areas of US buy a fleet of heavy snow moving equipment, dump trucks, bobcat plows, to manage the snow. We aren’t going to make that investment for snow every 5 years.

Exactly. Do we want to equip the county/schools just like Buffalo does?

We got 0.4" of snow in 22-23.
0.6" in 19-20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point they just need to open the schools and the parents have to drive their kids in. In Arlington with small children, you should have one car. Foot traffic for everything doesn’t work. If you don’t want to do that, keep your kid home. If the walkways between my house and the high school suck tomorrow and the day after, my kid will just have to stay after and do homework until one of us can pick him up.

I believe that point is tomorrow - most of the districts that closed said they did so with the plan for a 2 hour delay Tuesday.

But why couldn’t this just have been the plan for Monday? What does the extra day do?

Absolutely nothing.

Custodians can dedicate the whole day to removal vs. what they can fit in between regular duties

+1 this. Does APS have money in the budget to pay overtime? Plus their poor decisions for some schools come back to bite them in the ass - if Fleet doesn’t have parking for teachers and the streets are covered in ice piles, where is staff supposed to put their car?

The schools aren’t the issue. It’s the county roads and sidewalks. Schools have been cleared already.

Except for schools that depend on street parking for staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who commuted to work this morning, how was traffic in and around Arlington?

I commuted last week too. It's fine. It's slower going at some intersections that aren't the right amount of lanes and/or a turn lane isn't cleared. Just allow extra time and it's fine.

+1 to all of the above. It's going to be a nightmare Wednesday when APS has all the kids back at school on time and the roads still don't have all the turn lanes/parking lanes cleared. (Not blaming anyone, just making an observation).

APS can't win.

Wait until it's fully cleared? Parents will complain.
Have kids go back before it's fully cleared? Parents will complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that would help considerably is much more aggressive salting before during and after the event. This area doesn’t do that.

Because 80% of the time we have rain which washes it all to the Bay.

Yes, I understand the reason we don't use the salt. This stuff is a tradeoff. Possibly when the severity of the event is known and predicted well ahead of time (as this was) and the tricky conditions are known well ahead of time in terms of removal (as this was) well maybe they make a different calculation. Or maybe not.

My thought is only I don't think discussion should be shouted down and nobody is supposed to ask questions or have any critical thought.

Salting the roads in advance only works in certain circumstances.

More aggressive salting would have helped overall in this situation. But they also have to have the salt, somewhere to store the salt, and the proper vehicles to dump the salt.

Temps were too low.

There are products beyond rock salt that can push effectiveness into colder temps. It's silly to debate this just google the topic if interested. You really think some of these colder areas in the US do not face this issue and have solutions? Of course they do.

The other areas of US buy a fleet of heavy snow moving equipment, dump trucks, bobcat plows, to manage the snow. We aren’t going to make that investment for snow every 5 years.

FCPS was out the first week of 2025 last school year for…snow and ice. It’s not every five years and with climate change, they need to invest in actual options. (They won’t).

But then people will complain about the budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who commuted to work this morning, how was traffic in and around Arlington?

I commuted last week too. It's fine. It's slower going at some intersections that aren't the right amount of lanes and/or a turn lane isn't cleared. Just allow extra time and it's fine.

+1 to all of the above. It's going to be a nightmare Wednesday when APS has all the kids back at school on time and the roads still don't have all the turn lanes/parking lanes cleared. (Not blaming anyone, just making an observation).

APS can't win.

Wait until it's fully cleared? Parents will complain.
Have kids go back before it's fully cleared? Parents will complain.

It's not about winning, it's about making the choices necessary to get kids back to school as soon as possible. I'll live with the bad traffic, I wasn't even complaining about it if you bothered to read the post, I said I was making an observation. School openings shouldn't be based on all of our "feelings."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point they just need to open the schools and the parents have to drive their kids in. In Arlington with small children, you should have one car. Foot traffic for everything doesn’t work. If you don’t want to do that, keep your kid home. If the walkways between my house and the high school suck tomorrow and the day after, my kid will just have to stay after and do homework until one of us can pick him up.

I believe that point is tomorrow - most of the districts that closed said they did so with the plan for a 2 hour delay Tuesday.

But why couldn’t this just have been the plan for Monday? What does the extra day do?

Absolutely nothing.

Custodians can dedicate the whole day to removal vs. what they can fit in between regular duties

+1 this. Does APS have money in the budget to pay overtime? Plus their poor decisions for some schools come back to bite them in the ass - if Fleet doesn’t have parking for teachers and the streets are covered in ice piles, where is staff supposed to put their car?

YHS parking lot is bad, as is the bus loop.

The schools aren’t the issue. It’s the county roads and sidewalks. Schools have been cleared already.

Schools are part of the issue. We got an email that the drop off/pick up lane is single file and to expect major delays at drop off. Bus lanes are also problematic. Parking lots aren't entirely clear and they're encouraging carpools. And sidewalks near schools aren't clear either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who commuted to work this morning, how was traffic in and around Arlington?

I commuted last week too. It's fine. It's slower going at some intersections that aren't the right amount of lanes and/or a turn lane isn't cleared. Just allow extra time and it's fine.

+1 to all of the above. It's going to be a nightmare Wednesday when APS has all the kids back at school on time and the roads still don't have all the turn lanes/parking lanes cleared. (Not blaming anyone, just making an observation).

APS can't win.

Wait until it's fully cleared? Parents will complain.
Have kids go back before it's fully cleared? Parents will complain.

It's not about winning, it's about making the choices necessary to get kids back to school as soon as possible. I'll live with the bad traffic, I wasn't even complaining about it if you bothered to read the post, I said I was making an observation. School openings shouldn't be based on all of our "feelings."

Great. Then then the whiners should STFU and let APS do its thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing that would help considerably is much more aggressive salting before during and after the event. This area doesn’t do that.

Because 80% of the time we have rain which washes it all to the Bay.

Yes, I understand the reason we don't use the salt. This stuff is a tradeoff. Possibly when the severity of the event is known and predicted well ahead of time (as this was) and the tricky conditions are known well ahead of time in terms of removal (as this was) well maybe they make a different calculation. Or maybe not.

My thought is only I don't think discussion should be shouted down and nobody is supposed to ask questions or have any critical thought.

Salting the roads in advance only works in certain circumstances.

More aggressive salting would have helped overall in this situation. But they also have to have the salt, somewhere to store the salt, and the proper vehicles to dump the salt.

Temps were too low.

There are products beyond rock salt that can push effectiveness into colder temps. It's silly to debate this just google the topic if interested. You really think some of these colder areas in the US do not face this issue and have solutions? Of course they do.

The other areas of US buy a fleet of heavy snow moving equipment, dump trucks, bobcat plows, to manage the snow. We aren’t going to make that investment for snow every 5 years.

Exactly. Do we want to equip the county/schools just like Buffalo does?

We got 0.4" of snow in 22-23.
0.6" in 19-20.

I think there are inexpensive things that could be done that would help. Consolidated bus stops on priority routes with waiting areas is pretty obvious. Could all be mapped out ahead of time and work with County partners to prioritize. The issue that is always the straggling issue keeping kids out is buses and bus routes. The sidewalks at the end of the day won't be clear and they'll go back.