Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

Well the middle class friends that I know who own property live in Yonkers, Queens and Brooklyn. They commute because it's a darn expensive city to live in.

Exactly. OP can't understand this

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

No Jersey City.

New Jersey has some of the highest property taxes in the nation, unless of course you would have them drive 1.5 hours to get to work because there's no PATH stations in their county

Okay smarty pants - but that is where my middle class friend rents an apartment and commutes from. remember we are talking middle class here!

Not to mention she uses public transport - she doesn't have a car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing ordinary about making north of $200K, which puts one in the top 5% of the country. How is that "middle"? And please don't say "250K doesn't get you very far in NW DC, Chevy Chase and Bethesda" - living in an expensive area is a choice. When I lived in NYC, I remember wealthy professionals in Manhattan saying these incomes are "barely getting by" - as if choosing to live in Manhattan isn't itself a luxury.

http://mic.com/articles/64095/what-we-get-wrong-when-we-define-the-middle-class

If a person works in Manhattan, where should they live? Iowa? Idiot

No Jersey City.

New Jersey has some of the highest property taxes in the nation, unless of course you would have them drive 1.5 hours to get to work because there's no PATH stations in their county

Okay smarty pants - but that is where my middle class friend rents an apartment and commutes from. remember we are talking middle class here!

Not to mention she uses public transport - she doesn't have a car.

In case you were confused I said "Jersey City" (look it up) - not all of New Jersey.

[Anonymous]

$350k
- take home monthly pay: ~18k
- so if their disposable income after mortgage is still $6300, that's a whopping $11700 mortgage, or perhaps less if she was factoring in the massive bills from heating/cooling such a big house.

Seems like a lot, but...
$3200 mortgage ($550K home)
$ 1200 per child -- child care
$1000 month food
$1000 month -- car payments (500 each car for two working parents)
$500 moth -- other -- insurance, savings, debt pay off, clothes, vacations, retirement

That is middle class life. It is the cost of housing and daycare which makes it so expensive to live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

$350k
- take home monthly pay: ~18k
- so if their disposable income after mortgage is still $6300, that's a whopping $11700 mortgage, or perhaps less if she was factoring in the massive bills from heating/cooling such a big house.

Seems like a lot, but...
$3200 mortgage ($550K home)
$ 1200 per child -- child care
$1000 month food
$1000 month -- car payments (500 each car for two working parents)
$500 moth -- other -- insurance, savings, debt pay off, clothes, vacations, retirement

That is middle class life. It is the cost of housing and daycare which makes it so expensive to live here.

which is why we in the middle class pay the following:

$1400 mortgage (300k townhouse)
$1000 child care
$500 food
$200 car payment on no frills hyundai

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

$350k
- take home monthly pay: ~18k
- so if their disposable income after mortgage is still $6300, that's a whopping $11700 mortgage, or perhaps less if she was factoring in the massive bills from heating/cooling such a big house.

Seems like a lot, but...
$3200 mortgage ($550K home)
$ 1200 per child -- child care
$1000 month food
$1000 month -- car payments (500 each car for two working parents)
$500 moth -- other -- insurance, savings, debt pay off, clothes, vacations, retirement

That is middle class life. It is the cost of housing and daycare which makes it so expensive to live here.

In the above comment - there was 18k take home per month. So after adding together your budget - you would still have over 10k per month in disposable income. So please explain how this is middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The facts demonstrate that you are very close to/actually in the 1 percent. Read the NYT OpEd on this very issues and 529s.

So you think that 300K is the same in all areas

Not PP. What I am saying is it doesn't have to be. It's a dumb argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The facts demonstrate that you are very close to/actually in the 1 percent. Read the NYT OpEd on this very issues and 529s.

So you think that 300K is the same in all areas

Not PP. What I am saying is it doesn't have to be. It's a dumb argument.

Also much harder to actually make 300k in one of the fly over states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Westchester, Essex, Bergen and Nassau Counties have the highest property tax in the country

83% of households in Westchester make less than $200K a year.

In Nassau, 85%.

In Bergen, 87%.

So no, $300K isn't "middle class" in the New York any way you slice it.

[Anonymous]

Are we still going on about this?

No, we cannot stop referring to households making $200-$300 K as "middle class," because they are firmly in the middle class by every definition. Middle class does not mean "median income," and it does not mean you have to be "struggling financially," whatever that means to you. Middle class defines a social class, of which income is only a part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we still going on about this?

No, we cannot stop referring to households making $200-$300 K as "middle class," because they are firmly in the middle class by every definition. Middle class does not mean "median income," and it does not mean you have to be "struggling financially," whatever that means to you. Middle class defines a social class, of which income is only a part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

If you take it upon yourself to redefine middle class, you should exclude those below $200. Because comparing and lumping $50 and $200 together in one social class is silly. To anyone with common sense, I mean. It may make complete sense to those who rely on Wiki for their wordly expertise

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

$350k
- take home monthly pay: ~18k
- so if their disposable income after mortgage is still $6300, that's a whopping $11700 mortgage, or perhaps less if she was factoring in the massive bills from heating/cooling such a big house.

Seems like a lot, but...
$3200 mortgage ($550K home)
$ 1200 per child -- child care
$1000 month food
$1000 month -- car payments (500 each car for two working parents)
$500 moth -- other -- insurance, savings, debt pay off, clothes, vacations, retirement

That is middle class life. It is the cost of housing and daycare which makes it so expensive to live here.

That's lower middle class

which is why we in the middle class pay the following:

$1400 mortgage (300k townhouse)
$1000 child care
$500 food
$200 car payment on no frills hyundai

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

$350k
- take home monthly pay: ~18k
- so if their disposable income after mortgage is still $6300, that's a whopping $11700 mortgage, or perhaps less if she was factoring in the massive bills from heating/cooling such a big house.

Seems like a lot, but...
$3200 mortgage ($550K home)
$ 1200 per child -- child care
$1000 month food
$1000 month -- car payments (500 each car for two working parents)
$500 moth -- other -- insurance, savings, debt pay off, clothes, vacations, retirement

That is middle class life. It is the cost of housing and daycare which makes it so expensive to live here.

... because it takes way more than $500 to do all those things.

In the above comment - there was 18k take home per month. So after adding together your budget - you would still have over 10k per month in disposable income. So please explain how this is middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are we still going on about this?

No, we cannot stop referring to households making $200-$300 K as "middle class," because they are firmly in the middle class by every definition. Middle class does not mean "median income," and it does not mean you have to be "struggling financially," whatever that means to you. Middle class defines a social class, of which income is only a part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

This is a sociological definition that essentially means the professional-managerial class. This definition places the "middle class" in between the very wealthy and the working class majority. If we want to use that definition, fine, but keep in mind that the "middle class" using that definition is quite a privileged group in society.

To most Americans though, "middle class" means middle income. And people in the top 5% of HH incomes in the country claiming that their standard of living is "not all that different" from average people are either clueless or disingenuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are we still going on about this?

No, we cannot stop referring to households making $200-$300 K as "middle class," because they are firmly in the middle class by every definition. Middle class does not mean "median income," and it does not mean you have to be "struggling financially," whatever that means to you. Middle class defines a social class, of which income is only a part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

If you take it upon yourself to redefine middle class, you should exclude those below $200. Because comparing and lumping $50 and $200 together in one social class is silly. To anyone with common sense, I mean. It may make complete sense to those who rely on Wiki for their wordly expertise

Okay, well, you can define middle class however *you* want to, but don't get offended when social scientists and labor experts think you're an idiot.