How is the elimination of APs going for your DC

[Anonymous]

I’ve got nothing against privates, I just don’t like to be bs’ed. Private advanced classes are actually AP classes without having the designation because they want to avoid direct comparison. Students have to take the exam whatever class they take anyways.

Yes, you do have something against privates. You are too much of a cheerleader for AP to NOT have a motivation, and that motivation is clearly that you are pro-public -- which is fine. If my kid was in a public school and needed an edge, then I would push them to take APs too, but the bottom line is you can do more than fine without it. And to again answer the OP's questions, elimination of AP at my DC's school is going exceptionally well. No one misses it -- including the many Top 25 programs where the kids enroll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

+1. And this is true for most of the subjects. Probably the only ones where there can easily be clear variation are English lit and the history ones (not the other social sciences). But even then it mostly comes down to teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

Focusing on math classes, specifically calculus, when debating this is pretty dumb. AP probably benefits public school kids the most, who may be trying to save money by getting college credits cheaper and are not necessarily going to attend a good college anyway.

For private school kids, the benefits of AP credits are generally less. They usually are looking for a 4 year college experience.

Using AP credits at a top college, to skip valuable classroom instruction, makes less sense. The idea that a second major or an unnecessary masters degree, made possible by AP credits, are worth getting is highly questionable.

Most kids, public or private, don’t take AP exams to save money, but to have a stronger application for college. Getting unhooked into Top20 without at least 10 AP exams is very difficult. Not unheard of, but very difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’ve got nothing against privates, I just don’t like to be bs’ed. Private advanced classes are actually AP classes without having the designation because they want to avoid direct comparison. Students have to take the exam whatever class they take anyways.

Yes, you do have something against privates. You are too much of a cheerleader for AP to NOT have a motivation, and that motivation is clearly that you are pro-public -- which is fine. If my kid was in a public school and needed an edge, then I would push them to take APs too, but the bottom line is you can do more than fine without it. And to again answer the OP's questions, elimination of AP at my DC's school is going exceptionally well. No one misses it -- including the many Top 25 programs where the kids enroll.

Not PP. DC-based privates still overwhelmingly offer APs. This isn’t a public vs private thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’ve got nothing against privates, I just don’t like to be bs’ed. Private advanced classes are actually AP classes without having the designation because they want to avoid direct comparison. Students have to take the exam whatever class they take anyways.

Yes, you do have something against privates. You are too much of a cheerleader for AP to NOT have a motivation, and that motivation is clearly that you are pro-public -- which is fine. If my kid was in a public school and needed an edge, then I would push them to take APs too, but the bottom line is you can do more than fine without it. And to again answer the OP's questions, elimination of AP at my DC's school is going exceptionally well. No one misses it -- including the many Top 25 programs where the kids enroll.

I caution against making assumptions on what was in those applications, what exams these kids took and what was reported to colleges.

If you think the private honors classes will give your kid an “edge” you are delusional. Admissions are competitive at top 20 colleges, AP exams are not make or break, but they move the needle.

This is pretty common knowledge. Threads are popping all the time how kids in private are at a disadvantage for college admissions. BTW I don’t think that’s true, it’s just that there aren’t advantages that some parents assume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’ve got nothing against privates, I just don’t like to be bs’ed. Private advanced classes are actually AP classes without having the designation because they want to avoid direct comparison. Students have to take the exam whatever class they take anyways.

Yes, you do have something against privates. You are too much of a cheerleader for AP to NOT have a motivation, and that motivation is clearly that you are pro-public -- which is fine. If my kid was in a public school and needed an edge, then I would push them to take APs too, but the bottom line is you can do more than fine without it. And to again answer the OP's questions, elimination of AP at my DC's school is going exceptionally well. No one misses it -- including the many Top 25 programs where the kids enroll.

Not PP. DC-based privates still overwhelmingly offer APs. This isn’t a public vs private thing.

They offer courses that prepare the students for the AP exam, but are not called AP classes. If you’re smart enough to read between the lines you take the exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’ve got nothing against privates, I just don’t like to be bs’ed. Private advanced classes are actually AP classes without having the designation because they want to avoid direct comparison. Students have to take the exam whatever class they take anyways.

Yes, you do have something against privates. You are too much of a cheerleader for AP to NOT have a motivation, and that motivation is clearly that you are pro-public -- which is fine. If my kid was in a public school and needed an edge, then I would push them to take APs too, but the bottom line is you can do more than fine without it. And to again answer the OP's questions, elimination of AP at my DC's school is going exceptionally well. No one misses it -- including the many Top 25 programs where the kids enroll.

Not PP. DC-based privates still overwhelmingly offer APs. This isn’t a public vs private thing.

They offer courses that prepare the students for the AP exam, but are not called AP classes. If you’re smart enough to read between the lines you take the exam.

No, what I meant was that there are only a handful of privates that actually dropped APs. It really is not that high of a number - it was discussed earlier in this thread but I couldn’t tell you where given how long the thread is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’ve got nothing against privates, I just don’t like to be bs’ed. Private advanced classes are actually AP classes without having the designation because they want to avoid direct comparison. Students have to take the exam whatever class they take anyways.

Yes, you do have something against privates. You are too much of a cheerleader for AP to NOT have a motivation, and that motivation is clearly that you are pro-public -- which is fine. If my kid was in a public school and needed an edge, then I would push them to take APs too, but the bottom line is you can do more than fine without it. And to again answer the OP's questions, elimination of AP at my DC's school is going exceptionally well. No one misses it -- including the many Top 25 programs where the kids enroll.

Not PP. DC-based privates still overwhelmingly offer APs. This isn’t a public vs private thing.

They offer courses that prepare the students for the AP exam, but are not called AP classes. If you’re smart enough to read between the lines you take the exam.

No, what I meant was that there are only a handful of privates that actually dropped APs. It really is not that high of a number - it was discussed earlier in this thread but I couldn’t tell you where given how long the thread is.

Yes, many didn’t drop the AP classes. The ones that did, Sidwell, GDS explicitly say in the course description the class is preparing the students for the AP exam.

I don’t know why it’s even controversial that you need to take the AP exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

+1. And this is true for most of the subjects. Probably the only ones where there can easily be clear variation are English lit and the history ones (not the other social sciences). But even then it mostly comes down to teaching.

AP History courses lean heavily on memorizing the terms in every chapter, maybe 150-200 in a whole course. If you are good at flash cards and memorization plus some OK writing, passing isn't hard. But it's just baby steps in terms of historical analysis, and the teacher will coach you in the formats (DBQ, short answer, long answer).

A non-AP course covers the same main topics but doesn't have to pound away on every flash card term. That time can go into deeper study and more complex analysis and projects.

A bright kid can take that better course and learn more about what they will need in college. Then they can get the AP cram book and use the flash cards to make up the rest.

Those who say an AP course can do all of that in the allotted time in one year have not planned and taught one.

[Anonymous]

Dual enrollment is superior to AP. Just take actual college classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

+1. And this is true for most of the subjects. Probably the only ones where there can easily be clear variation are English lit and the history ones (not the other social sciences). But even then it mostly comes down to teaching.

AP History courses lean heavily on memorizing the terms in every chapter, maybe 150-200 in a whole course. If you are good at flash cards and memorization plus some OK writing, passing isn't hard. But it's just baby steps in terms of historical analysis, and the teacher will coach you in the formats (DBQ, short answer, long answer).

A non-AP course covers the same main topics but doesn't have to pound away on every flash card term. That time can go into deeper study and more complex analysis and projects.

A bright kid can take that better course and learn more about what they will need in college. Then they can get the AP cram book and use the flash cards to make up the rest.

Those who say an AP course can do all of that in the allotted time in one year have not planned and taught one.

It’s an introductory history class not rocket science. Most kids take it to satisfy general education requirements, you’re making it bigger than it is with the complex analysis talk. No flash cards for AP, use one of the recommended textbooks, there are even free ones from Openstax. Read it, go through the questions at the end of the chapter, do a few practice exams and be done with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

+1. And this is true for most of the subjects. Probably the only ones where there can easily be clear variation are English lit and the history ones (not the other social sciences). But even then it mostly comes down to teaching.

AP History courses lean heavily on memorizing the terms in every chapter, maybe 150-200 in a whole course. If you are good at flash cards and memorization plus some OK writing, passing isn't hard. But it's just baby steps in terms of historical analysis, and the teacher will coach you in the formats (DBQ, short answer, long answer).

A non-AP course covers the same main topics but doesn't have to pound away on every flash card term. That time can go into deeper study and more complex analysis and projects.

A bright kid can take that better course and learn more about what they will need in college. Then they can get the AP cram book and use the flash cards to make up the rest.

Those who say an AP course can do all of that in the allotted time in one year have not planned and taught one.

Absolutely not true. People having no clue make stuff up or pass along talking points. It’s easy to look up a syllabus and a past exam. It is the same history, similar textbook, mostly depends on the teaching style of the instructor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

+1. And this is true for most of the subjects. Probably the only ones where there can easily be clear variation are English lit and the history ones (not the other social sciences). But even then it mostly comes down to teaching.

AP History courses lean heavily on memorizing the terms in every chapter, maybe 150-200 in a whole course. If you are good at flash cards and memorization plus some OK writing, passing isn't hard. But it's just baby steps in terms of historical analysis, and the teacher will coach you in the formats (DBQ, short answer, long answer).

A non-AP course covers the same main topics but doesn't have to pound away on every flash card term. That time can go into deeper study and more complex analysis and projects.

A bright kid can take that better course and learn more about what they will need in college. Then they can get the AP cram book and use the flash cards to make up the rest.

Those who say an AP course can do all of that in the allotted time in one year have not planned and taught one.

Absolutely not true. People having no clue make stuff up or pass along talking points. It’s easy to look up a syllabus and a past exam. It is the same history, similar textbook, mostly depends on the teaching style of the instructor.

+1. If that’s what’s happening, it is a teaching fail. Go through the 500 page course and exam description book and you will not see it telling the teachers to do this at all. And every single unit comes with an extensive list of optional primary and secondary sources that teachers can assign and class activities to help reinforce concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

+1. And this is true for most of the subjects. Probably the only ones where there can easily be clear variation are English lit and the history ones (not the other social sciences). But even then it mostly comes down to teaching.

AP History courses lean heavily on memorizing the terms in every chapter, maybe 150-200 in a whole course. If you are good at flash cards and memorization plus some OK writing, passing isn't hard. But it's just baby steps in terms of historical analysis, and the teacher will coach you in the formats (DBQ, short answer, long answer).

A non-AP course covers the same main topics but doesn't have to pound away on every flash card term. That time can go into deeper study and more complex analysis and projects.

A bright kid can take that better course and learn more about what they will need in college. Then they can get the AP cram book and use the flash cards to make up the rest.

Those who say an AP course can do all of that in the allotted time in one year have not planned and taught one.

You do not seem to know what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are like a McDonalds happy meal. They even throw in a little toy, college credit. However, if you really care you can do much better for your kids.

I’ll give you the fact that AP classes have shortcomings, but let’s be honest here, it’s not like private classes are that much better.

Lower division major classes are a commodity, Calculus 1 for example is pretty much the same at many universities, they’ll use the same textbooks.

In what way is private school calculus better than the AP or community college version? It’s not, if anything the community college class is the most rigorous among them.

There are other legitimate reasons to go to a private school, but rigor of classes over AP is not one of them.

College credit and placement is definitely nice to have.

Rigor of coursework is one of the top reasons to choose private schools.

The grade inflation at public schools has rendered their grades meaningless and an unweighted 4.0 GPA is the norm.

Being graded beyond multiple choice exams, such as meaningful regular feedback on writing, or complex mathematics problem solving, is a good example of what a huge difference there is.

The reason for multiple choices are testing a large number of concepts going through the entire curriculum . It’s done not only for AP but also professional testing, MCAT, LSAT, GRE. It’s not like the five teachers at the math department at some high school figured out how to design a test better than the staff at a billion dollar company.

Let’s be real with complex mathematics problem solving. Give some specifics if you have. AP
Exams are well thought out.

AP exams are a joke. You can get a 5 and still be completely unprepared for the college class it was supposed to overlap with.

AP wants to sell their program to the largest audience possible, to maximize profits. Their standards are extremely low.

Comparing it to MCAT or LSAT makes no sense. Those have much harder grading that actually separates students, like the SAT.

AP results are good enough for MIT and Stanford, but nope, not good enough for you and some private school. C’mon now, let’s not exaggerate.

Curious how you think Calculus at private is that much better than AP Calculus BC. From the syllabus bits I’ve seen on the internet it’s not what you make it seem. Be specific if you can instead of generalities.

Challenging students to go far beyond the AP curriculum, mirroring what an T30 college would provide, and offering multiple math classes beyond multi variable calculus, is the expectation at a decent private.

The multivariable and beyond at privates are nowhere close to what’s taught at top 30. That’s not why students go to privates. It’s great the advance classes exists, but there won’t be any college credit earned. That’s assuming these classes are offered, not always the case.

If you’re really after credit go through community college or 4 year universities for dual enrollment. Usually publics have agreements, while privates don’t, but that’s not a problem, the additional cost is not prohibitive.

Plus many of them don’t even offer beyond multivariable, because they view acceleration negatively.

These people will repeat any talking point they hear from their schools.

Some of these talking points are legitimate so dismissing it by calling it just a talking point is lazy.

The arguments for removing APs were just that, talking points. Privates don’t necessarily view acceleration negatively, but it depends on the size of the school, the students attending to have a critical mass for the classes.

The privates are doing just fine without AP classes. Kids can take AP tests if they want. Who really cares?

Yes they can but it’s a huge PIA as it requires prep that would not be required if they just taught the damn AP class…not a fan. Our school switched when we were already 7 years in- too late to change course. But I would have likely chosen different school if the no AP thing had been on the table before my kids got to high school. For us it’s too late.

I agree. Removing the AP classes was just a marketing ploy, so the AP participation and scores would not be easily compared across public and private schools. Most people would not have cared and send the kids to private for different reasons. Now, for any advanced class the student needs to study on their own to prepare for the test format and topics that may be missing. Although some privates explicitly state the class will prepare the student for the AP exam, they are not AP classes so that’s a head scratcher.

I disagree. AP classes are the marketing ploy, and many schools are wisely realizing that the material they cover isn’t very good.

Sure AP classes are a marketing ploy with the tangible benefit of getting college credit.

Pick Calculus or whatever class, what part being covered isn’t very good? At least in math and sciences, the overlap between not very good AP classes and the new “improved”classes is 100%.

You’re just repeating talking points.

I will rephrase "not very good". How about "not as useful as an Honors classes at a strong private"? I don't seem the benefit in AP when you can take a better class, get the same GPA boost from honors, and still gain acceptance to a Top 25 college. Also, most elite schools don't allow graduation credit for AP any longer, and you will get the same placement benefit from an Honors course. The talking point is that AP allows you to get credit and graduate sooner when in actuality that is rarely true. n Happy to be debated on that if you have any proof of the opposite.....but I seriously doubt it.

Maybe bother to check the college policies with respect to AP coursework before having a strong opinion on the topic. Among HYPSM “elite” colleges Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and MIT give some credit for AP exams, so there goes your theory.

What’s so special about those honor classes at strong privates? You might get a better teacher, more individual support, but that has nothing to do with the curriculum and exam. It’s not like privates will invent new calculus and Physics to teach.

Read the calculus course description at “strong private” Sidwell and the one at college board. They are identical.

+1. And this is true for most of the subjects. Probably the only ones where there can easily be clear variation are English lit and the history ones (not the other social sciences). But even then it mostly comes down to teaching.

FWIW: My kids' school has at least 12 different 1-semester versions of AP Lit., all with different literary themes. Most students take 3 semesters of AP Lit because the topics are so interesting.