FFRDCs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is real RAND hater on this thread!

FFRDCs and for profit contractors have different business models. The latter can serve as body shops and staff government offices. They do a huge amount of valuable staff work.

FFRDCs are defined in the FAR: https://www.acquisition.gov/far/35.017
Government organizations are not legally allowed to give work to FFRDCs that are outside their mission. If a for-profit can do it, it should not go to an FFRDC. All the studies and analyses FFRDCs have serious PhD nerds who are happy doing studies. They are supposed to be independent and offer independent advice, but have the expertise and clearances necessary to do all kinds of work. These are long term investments made by the government in folks who can give good advice.

I love dcum. Where else could I write about the FAR and know people will track?

This poster isn't correct and doesn't seem to fully understand FFRDC contracts. I work on the government side and help oversee FFRDC contracts so here's my perspective. Industries can operate them (Leidos operates FNLCR). The big sticking point is conflict of interest or, equally as important, appearances of conflict of interest. Several FFRDCs, in their attempt to grow, have started taking money from places that increases the chances a reasonable person would view these non-government funding streams as conflicts. Now it's likely that FFRDCs may not believe these are conflicts of interest or have convinced themselves there's no appearance of conflicts. People can agree or disagree with these assessments. But my agency is cracking down on this practice largely under pressure from OMB.

[Anonymous]

FNLCR is not a studies and analysis ffrdc. And they are often held by larger organizations that have other business units.

Re conflict of interest - this is something that is carefully considered. The organizations that hold defense FFRDCs don’t take studies funds from defense contractors anywhere in their organizations for example My sponsors were always super careful to avoid sponsoring inappropriate work. And FFRDCs have “ceilings” or limits on the amount of funds they can bring in which also contributed to sponsor desires to make sure they weren’t wasting the opportunity by giving work that could be done elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

So Rand has other business units (like health) that take money from various sources along with their defense ffrdcs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FNLCR is not a studies and analysis ffrdc. And they are often held by larger organizations that have other business units.

Re conflict of interest - this is something that is carefully considered. The organizations that hold defense FFRDCs don’t take studies funds from defense contractors anywhere in their organizations for example My sponsors were always super careful to avoid sponsoring inappropriate work. And FFRDCs have “ceilings” or limits on the amount of funds they can bring in which also contributed to sponsor desires to make sure they weren’t wasting the opportunity by giving work that could be done elsewhere.

not that carefully for rand apparently.... my office has no interest in drawing unnecessary attention from EOP by sponsoring RAND work

[Anonymous]

RAND laid off researchers today

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RAND laid off researchers today

Confirmed

[Anonymous]

Very sorry to hear.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

You are incorrect.

CNA is one that has separated its Gov contracting work from its traditional FFRDC work.

I work at CNA and can confirm. That's what the Institute for Public Research does.

Yes, I hear things are getting a bit rougher on the gov contract side of things at CNA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry to hear.

Me too. I think RAND's current CEO is in way over his head. He has never managed a large organization before. I think the largest place he ever led was CSET... that place employs around 50 people and is the size of a single program in one of RAND's many FFRDCs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry to hear.

Me too. I think RAND's current CEO is in way over his head. He has never managed a large organization before. I think the largest place he ever led was CSET... that place employs around 50 people and is the size of a single program in one of RAND's many FFRDCs.

He probably didn't think the world would fall apart when he took the job.

I'm guessing IDA will have to do the same, with the DOT&E drawdown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very sorry to hear.

Me too. I think RAND's current CEO is in way over his head. He has never managed a large organization before. I think the largest place he ever led was CSET... that place employs around 50 people and is the size of a single program in one of RAND's many FFRDCs.

Jason Matheny’s unrealistic grand plans for RAND led to very poor implementation. He hired friends from his Effective Altruism circles for his tech initiatives, resulting in garbage research. He closely tied RAND to the Biden administration during its implosion, causing Trump and his allies to view us as "Biden’s think tank." He ignored the FFRDCs, risking losing our contracts. Revenue is plummeting, with one RIF of researchers and more likely to come. The Board should confront this train wreck before it’s too late.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

You are incorrect.

CNA is one that has separated its Gov contracting work from its traditional FFRDC work.

I work at CNA and can confirm. That's what the Institute for Public Research does.

Yes, I hear things are getting a bit rougher on the gov contract side of things at CNA.

They are. Everyone is getting hit in different ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RAND laid off researchers today

RAND, once a think tank, has laid off researchers but is still hiring for event coordinators, HR business partners, social media managers, benefits managers, and asset protection managers. https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/External_Career_Site/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

You are incorrect.

CNA is one that has separated its Gov contracting work from its traditional FFRDC work.

I work at CNA and can confirm. That's what the Institute for Public Research does.

Yes, I hear things are getting a bit rougher on the gov contract side of things at CNA.

They are. Everyone is getting hit in different ways.

CNA just posted openings on LinkedIn for Flight Test Engineers at Edwards AFB. One might think this would require an AeroE degree, but actually any STEM degree qualifies...for example Biology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Senior researchers are a dime a dozen. It's much harder to find folks with technical skills who want to work at a non-profit instead of Google. I know RAND looks at comparable salaries when setting ranges.

How do you know? Is RAND HR monitoring this thread?

I used to work there as a researcher. Definitely not HR. FFRDCs to do comps pretty carefully when doing government work to justify salaries. What can researchers make in academia? What do other organizations pay? That said the comps are not Wall Street.

It was always harder to find folks for the tech support side, and hard to keep them. In Silicon Valley they're the stars and at FFRDCs they are make it possible for researchers to do their work.

I know folks at all the local FFRDCs. Mostly really smart and mission driven people. A lot of them could have made more money in other organizations.

Not sure I buy this point. The pay range for a "Technical AI Policy Associate" at RAND is listed at $47,100- $156,500, requiring a BA but preference for a higher degree. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC-DC-Metro-Area/Technical-AI-Policy-Associate_R3217-1)

RAND is paying a "Grants Proposal Manager" between $75,700-$112,400, requiring a high school diploma but a BA is preferred. (https://rand.wd5.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/External_Career_Site/job/Washington-DC/Grants-Proposal-Manager_R3234)

That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ LESS than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

*Correction: That difference is absurd. In what world does a grant proposal manager with a HS diploma get paid up to 50%+ MORE than a Technical AI policy researcher? This is the kind of thing DOGE should be digging into - it's waste and bloat hiding in plain sight!

The AI position isn't even government funded. And if they underpay, they won't get good people. Why would that be your business,.or DOGE's?

It’s my business because I’m a taxpayer and my employer (a defense contractor) has to compete with these bloated FFRDCs.

Ummm … contractors cannot do FFRDC work and Vice versa

You are incorrect.

CNA is one that has separated its Gov contracting work from its traditional FFRDC work.

I work at CNA and can confirm. That's what the Institute for Public Research does.

Yes, I hear things are getting a bit rougher on the gov contract side of things at CNA.

They are. Everyone is getting hit in different ways.

CNA just posted openings on LinkedIn for Flight Test Engineers at Edwards AFB. One might think this would require an AeroE degree, but actually any STEM degree qualifies...for example Biology.

Wow!

How does that not pass the laugh test at DOD?!?