Palisades Fire - Los Angeles

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too many people living somewhere with not enough water. Same with CO and AZ too. The boom in Phoenix is absolutely shocking given the fact that the area is entirely dependent on water from elsewhere. People have no sense of self preservation.

As someone in those areas I think the same of people who live in hurricane and blizzard areas. Canceling school because of snow? Poor kids.

Yeah 10” of snow is exactly the same horror as your entire city running out of water and burning to a crisp. Great comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spencer Pratt's house burned down.

Oh no! He’s a wild personality but I loved his hummingbirds posts on instagram

Billy Crystal lost his house of 40+ years. Plus Eugene Levy, John Goodman and a number of others. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spencer Pratt's house burned down.

Oh no! He’s a wild personality but I loved his hummingbirds posts on instagram

Billy Crystal lost his house of 40+ years. Plus Eugene Levy, John Goodman and a number of others. Very sad.

Leighton Meester and Adam Brody, they have two young kids too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

how are you going to provide fire suppression over an entire city?

You could clean up the dead fall, which provides an enormous amount of fuel for these wildfires. But that would be destroying nature, so I guess we need to let the tiger eat your face.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-09-13/150-million-dead-trees-wildfires-sierra-nevada

Obviously you have some sort of personal crusade against anyone who wants to protect nature but you are tilting at windmills. Your own article does not say anything about not cutting trees because of environmentalist opposition. It says that the trees are inaccessible and not economically viable for harvest by loggers.

“While thinning — cutting down the dead timber and hauling it away — can play a role, especially around mountain communities, North said a majority of the beetle-killed stands are in wilderness or in areas that are too remote and too steep to be logged.”

Why are you trying to mislead people? Did you even read your own article?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why doesn’t the wind in Europe result in massive wild fires?

Europe is not a desert.

Places in Europe that have a Mediterranean climate like California absolutely do have massive fire problems and it’s been getting worse (thx climate change). Justice google fires in Spain, Greece, Italy and you’ll see plenty of news coverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a fire storm of mass destruction and will only get worse over the night.

Iconic landmarks like the Getty Villa and Palisades HS are on fire. 0% contained.

I grew up in SoCal and this is a disaster. People had to abandon their cars in traffic and run.

30,000 people evacuated but the Getty staff say the museum is very secure. My LA friends left their home before the gridlock. I have been through three fire evacuations in the last few years in the Rocky Mountain West, and several friends lost their homes with minutes to get out. The trauma of losing everything you have is unimaginable, especially for children. I have totally changed how I arrange everything. My heart goes out to anyone who has to evacuate, and wait and wonder what is happening to their home. The wind forecast looks terrible.

If you don't mind sharing, I'd like to hear what changes you made. I live in LA and have several family and friends sheltering in hotels right now.

I am glad your friends made it out, and I hope their homes make it.

We had 15 minutes in our first evacuation, many of our friends had literally two minutes. Here is what I’ve done

-Reorganized “must have” paper and objects so that they exist in one grabbable plastic file box stored in the front closet. This means that the overall organization is disrupted. Obviously it has passports, banking, emergency cash etc., but it also has my favorite drawings from each child, original genealogical documents, love letters. This is the box that is first out. It’s what you need and what you feel like you will die without. I sharpied symbols on the box to remind me to close windows, doors, and shut off power/gas. We don’t have propane but if you do you should try to remove it. This is where you put the things that you take if you have two minutes. I also have a small box of charging equipment. This is totally an emotional crutch for me. I learned the first time that slinging chargers into random places made me feel out of control and panicky, but I really wanted to take them.

-The front closet also has flat boxes, packing tape, bubble wrap, scissors that are not used for anything else. They are there primarily for art and books.

-I have packed a box with one or two pieces of each of the multiple sets of china and crystal that are family things.

-I have a packed box of our most treasured Christmas things.

-Jewelry is stored in a box with trays and I am religious about putting it away

-Books are shelved so that high priority keepers are together. Old photo albums are there (yes they are scanned, but some photos I want if I can have them).

-Every bedroom has a box of big black trash bags. You can stuff a ton of clothing, stuffed animals, special blankets, etc. in really quickly and the bags will squish into vehicles efficiently. Kids can do this while you do something else.i will never forget holding my kid’s quavering friend who barely escaped with her family and did not have a single thing left. Not one stuffed animal, baby toy, pillowcase. Nothing.

-Scanning and photographing. Pretty much everything that can be scanned is scanned, if it can’t be scanned it’s photographed. I have thumb drives here and send copies to my mother and cousin. This serves two purposes. Whatever we can’t take out, we will have a memory of, and we will get the max for our contents insurance (start scanning receipts for things as you buy). Insurance for build cost is usually not enough, and they’re only obligated to pay a % of contents unless you can document it all.

-Priorotized lists. We know approximately what can go out in 2, 5, 10, 15, 30 minutes. We know what fits in our vehicles and what we can add if our friend comes with a trailer. This is all written in order and stored in an envelope taped to the must go box. Be sure to include a device list. No matter how prepared you are, it’s scary. It’s not a time to make decisions. You don’t want to be in the basement staring at your sorority memorabilia and your grandmother’s ice skates and wondering what to take. This also means someone else can pack if you put locations and ideally a photo on the list.

Overall, my house is no longer organized for maximum efficiency, but for maximum evacuation efficiency. It doesn’t change much or look weird. It just means some extra steps and discipline here and there. Everyone will have different priorities and choices. The key is making those decisions before the crisis and organizing so you don’t have to think or search for things when you evacuate.

This is insane. I agree about people, pets, important documents, and chargers. Laterns/batteries is a good idea too. The kids have a few favorite toys/stuffies. But I don’t care about anything else you mentioned - even if I had a week to prepare I wouldn’t bring China or Christmas decorations or kids artwork. Now if Google and Amazon photo BOTH lose all my digital storage, THEN I’d be devastated. But the stuff is just stuff.

You do you. You have no right to judge anyone else. I had to leave grabbing what I could with no planning the first time. Then we watched and waited for three days. It sucked beyond belief and yes, if I can safely prevent my family from going through what our friends have, I will do it. Now we’re prepared. My best friends lost every single thing. It’s all “just stuff” until it happens to you. Make your own decisions and don’t judge other people as long as they are obeying safety orders.

+1 I’m so sick of people coming for this woman after they ASKED HER how she organizes to get out with all her stuff.

NP. I think the PP is amazing and am so grateful she took the time to post at length. It gave me ideas I wouldn't have even thought of, i.e. Christmas ornaments.

I'm inspired to not just put together a "go" bag with essentials/docs but also a box of most treasured items.

I'm also going to use the snow day tomorrow to have my teenager scan the photos from old photo albums so we have everything in the cloud. I have all my children's photos saved digitally but not the ones from my own childhood.

Scanning photos can be highly technical if you want archival quality. Make sure that teenager knows what they are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

I don't really understand what you have in mind - like a continuous spray? Water isn't unlimited - hydrants in some of these areas are already running dry as firefighters use them. And any active system would presumably require power and somebody to man it. Plus spraying water in 100 mpg gusts probably not effective.

I know this kind of fire is unfamiliar to east coasters, I'm not mocking. But it's much bigger and faster than you are imagining. You're basically asking why Florida doesn't have some kind of pump to keep hurricanes out.

As with hurricanes, there are new building methods that help. Burying the power lines would be a huge help, but that's expensive and CA allowed it's power utility to be privatized. This is really a story of climate change + bad infrastructure decisions.

Have you ever seen crop irrigation systems, they implement rotating water cannons to cover large swaths of land. Install some of these and only turn them on when a fire is happening and a neighborhood is in danger. It’s not a complex idea.

LOL asking someone from CA if they've seen a crop sprinkler. Uh, yes, I have.
I tried to nicely explain already, but it's clear you are not familiar with fires, the terrain, or the water or electricity situation. But sure, you solved it, good job.

Yeah, still not sure how this idea isnt better than nothing. A quick google search shows that apparently there are companies that do provide this service. Adapting it to be an integral part of a community’s infrastructure would make sense.

https://www.wildfirewater.com/

I think this area would be hard because it is all hills and houses. There isn't space to put a massive sprinkler system.

I assume planes can scoop up water from the ocean to fight the fire? I am not sure how that works.

No you can’t dump sea water all over the land because you will salt the soil and nothing will ever grow there again.

Do you know how much salt is in a gallon of seawater? An aerial tanker might spread 2,500 gallons of water per drop, over an area of about 2 acres in size. How many grams of salt per square foot would we be “salting” the soil with? Why don’t you look into it and then do some math. Then look up if that amount of salt in the soil has any appreciable affect on vegetation.

I already know the answer, but it’s important that you see for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question from somebody who hasn't had to evacuate - when do you decide to go? My impulse would be to just leave now if I was anywhere near, but I can understand it requires a place to stay, missing work, etc. Do you wait for the order? or go sooner if you can?

I am pp who has been through it three times. We have a system that warns us to prepare to evacuate, and we all are watching location, wind speed/direction, and of course literally watching, communicating with neighbors, and paying attention to our guts. I want to be out before the order so that there is no chance of being stuck in gridlock.

Coordinating with neighbors is a must. We have some teens on the block that aren’t old enough to drive. There are plans A, B, and C for them to get out. We all have keys or codes for multiple neighbors and we know who has which pets. We have a couple of elderly neighbors that are pretty fit but we have designated people to make sure they are ok and help them if needed. We let each other know when we’re going out of town, etc.

Curious, PP: Why do you keep living in such a fire-prone area? Why not move away to a safer place?

What place is safe? People live in Tornado Alley, in hurricane zones, in tsunami risk zones, beside volcanoes, in earthquake risk zones, in flood zones, in wildfire and mudslide risk zones, in avalanche zones and in terrorism/war target/crime zones.

Suburban DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question from somebody who hasn't had to evacuate - when do you decide to go? My impulse would be to just leave now if I was anywhere near, but I can understand it requires a place to stay, missing work, etc. Do you wait for the order? or go sooner if you can?

I am pp who has been through it three times. We have a system that warns us to prepare to evacuate, and we all are watching location, wind speed/direction, and of course literally watching, communicating with neighbors, and paying attention to our guts. I want to be out before the order so that there is no chance of being stuck in gridlock.

Coordinating with neighbors is a must. We have some teens on the block that aren’t old enough to drive. There are plans A, B, and C for them to get out. We all have keys or codes for multiple neighbors and we know who has which pets. We have a couple of elderly neighbors that are pretty fit but we have designated people to make sure they are ok and help them if needed. We let each other know when we’re going out of town, etc.

Curious, PP: Why do you keep living in such a fire-prone area? Why not move away to a safer place?

What place is safe? People live in Tornado Alley, in hurricane zones, in tsunami risk zones, beside volcanoes, in earthquake risk zones, in flood zones, in wildfire and mudslide risk zones, in avalanche zones and in terrorism/war target/crime zones.

Suburban DC.

Who wants to tell PP?

[Anonymous]

It was always a really bad idea to live in Southern California chaparral canyons. People just don’t learn.

The only thing that will prevent this is insurance companies refusing to sell policies. No one of these homes should EVER be allowed to be rebuilt. The land needs to go back to nature.

Fire has been happening here since the aboriginal peoples were prevented by the Spanish from doing annual burns to reduce fuel loads. They knew. But white people stopped it, and now they’re dealing with the consequences of it for 500 years now.

Houses don’t belong in these areas. Period.


https://longreads.com/2018/12/04/the-case-for-letting-malibu-burn/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

I don't really understand what you have in mind - like a continuous spray? Water isn't unlimited - hydrants in some of these areas are already running dry as firefighters use them. And any active system would presumably require power and somebody to man it. Plus spraying water in 100 mpg gusts probably not effective.

I know this kind of fire is unfamiliar to east coasters, I'm not mocking. But it's much bigger and faster than you are imagining. You're basically asking why Florida doesn't have some kind of pump to keep hurricanes out.

As with hurricanes, there are new building methods that help. Burying the power lines would be a huge help, but that's expensive and CA allowed it's power utility to be privatized. This is really a story of climate change + bad infrastructure decisions.

Have you ever seen crop irrigation systems, they implement rotating water cannons to cover large swaths of land. Install some of these and only turn them on when a fire is happening and a neighborhood is in danger. It’s not a complex idea.

LOL asking someone from CA if they've seen a crop sprinkler. Uh, yes, I have.
I tried to nicely explain already, but it's clear you are not familiar with fires, the terrain, or the water or electricity situation. But sure, you solved it, good job.

Yeah, still not sure how this idea isnt better than nothing. A quick google search shows that apparently there are companies that do provide this service. Adapting it to be an integral part of a community’s infrastructure would make sense.

https://www.wildfirewater.com/

I think this area would be hard because it is all hills and houses. There isn't space to put a massive sprinkler system.

I assume planes can scoop up water from the ocean to fight the fire? I am not sure how that works.

No you can’t dump sea water all over the land because you will salt the soil and nothing will ever grow there again.

Do you know how much salt is in a gallon of seawater? An aerial tanker might spread 2,500 gallons of water per drop, over an area of about 2 acres in size. How many grams of salt per square foot would we be “salting” the soil with? Why don’t you look into it and then do some math. Then look up if that amount of salt in the soil has any appreciable affect on vegetation.

I already know the answer, but it’s important that you see for yourself.

Don’t be an ass. It is widely cited as a main reason why sea water is not used to suppress wildfire.

https://firefighterinsider.com/can-you-put-out-a-fire-with-seawater-does-it-work/


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/287261263_The_changes_of_soil_salinity_in_the_Pinus_densiflora_forest_after_seawater_spread_using_a_fire-fight_helicopter

These researches would not have created a study like that if simple calculations were as divinities as you suggest. The almost complete lack of rain in SoCal would lead to a buildup of salt in the soil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question from somebody who hasn't had to evacuate - when do you decide to go? My impulse would be to just leave now if I was anywhere near, but I can understand it requires a place to stay, missing work, etc. Do you wait for the order? or go sooner if you can?

I am pp who has been through it three times. We have a system that warns us to prepare to evacuate, and we all are watching location, wind speed/direction, and of course literally watching, communicating with neighbors, and paying attention to our guts. I want to be out before the order so that there is no chance of being stuck in gridlock.

Coordinating with neighbors is a must. We have some teens on the block that aren’t old enough to drive. There are plans A, B, and C for them to get out. We all have keys or codes for multiple neighbors and we know who has which pets. We have a couple of elderly neighbors that are pretty fit but we have designated people to make sure they are ok and help them if needed. We let each other know when we’re going out of town, etc.

Curious, PP: Why do you keep living in such a fire-prone area? Why not move away to a safer place?

What place is safe? People live in Tornado Alley, in hurricane zones, in tsunami risk zones, beside volcanoes, in earthquake risk zones, in flood zones, in wildfire and mudslide risk zones, in avalanche zones and in terrorism/war target/crime zones.

Suburban DC.

Who wants to tell PP?

Just say it. Why be coy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think it’s related to global warming (drought + higher temps longer)
I’m very surprised they didn’t or haven’t brought in federal forest fire crews sooner. Why not bring in national guard or military to truck in water?

Seems eerily similar to what happened in Hawaii.

Yes, fires like this occurring in January is related to a hotter planet. And we should expect to see more and more incidents like this in the coming years and decades.

I posted above a link to John Vallaint's "Fire Weather" which talks about the Fort McMurray fire but also provides a lot of insight into the complexity of fires like these which are essentially wildfires occurring in urban areas. Fires like this make their own weather, and fighting them is extremely complicated. In many instances, things that seem like they make sense to seasoned firefighters can have unexpected and counterintuitive effects. And almost no one has expertise in fighting these fires. Nothing about fighting them is simple or straightforward, and they move an unimaginable speeds, changing course unpredictably.

There will surely be years and decades of analysis into what happened and what went wrong. It will probably be possible to point to pretty much anyone with a modicum of power and blame them for something. But in reality, the world's climate is changing very fast, and we are unprepared for the consequences.

California has always had a volatile climate including years long droughts. The difference is that now we’ve put millions of people in to an entire that is literally adapted to deal with frequent fires (chaparral). It is irresponsible for people to ascribe these fires to climate change. https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/25/california-drought-past-dry-periods-have-lasted-more-than-200-years-scientists-say/amp/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think it’s related to global warming (drought + higher temps longer)
I’m very surprised they didn’t or haven’t brought in federal forest fire crews sooner. Why not bring in national guard or military to truck in water?

Seems eerily similar to what happened in Hawaii.

Yes, fires like this occurring in January is related to a hotter planet. And we should expect to see more and more incidents like this in the coming years and decades.

I posted above a link to John Vallaint's "Fire Weather" which talks about the Fort McMurray fire but also provides a lot of insight into the complexity of fires like these which are essentially wildfires occurring in urban areas. Fires like this make their own weather, and fighting them is extremely complicated. In many instances, things that seem like they make sense to seasoned firefighters can have unexpected and counterintuitive effects. And almost no one has expertise in fighting these fires. Nothing about fighting them is simple or straightforward, and they move an unimaginable speeds, changing course unpredictably.

There will surely be years and decades of analysis into what happened and what went wrong. It will probably be possible to point to pretty much anyone with a modicum of power and blame them for something. But in reality, the world's climate is changing very fast, and we are unprepared for the consequences.

California has always had a volatile climate including years long droughts. The difference is that now we’ve put millions of people in to an entire that is literally adapted to deal with frequent fires (chaparral). It is irresponsible for people to ascribe these fires to climate change. https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/25/california-drought-past-dry-periods-have-lasted-more-than-200-years-scientists-say/amp/

Can’t it be both?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why aren’t fire mitigation systems installed as part of the public works systems, developments or private homes? Large water guns to create a barrier or cover a neighborhood?

I don't really understand what you have in mind - like a continuous spray? Water isn't unlimited - hydrants in some of these areas are already running dry as firefighters use them. And any active system would presumably require power and somebody to man it. Plus spraying water in 100 mpg gusts probably not effective.

I know this kind of fire is unfamiliar to east coasters, I'm not mocking. But it's much bigger and faster than you are imagining. You're basically asking why Florida doesn't have some kind of pump to keep hurricanes out.

As with hurricanes, there are new building methods that help. Burying the power lines would be a huge help, but that's expensive and CA allowed it's power utility to be privatized. This is really a story of climate change + bad infrastructure decisions.

Have you ever seen crop irrigation systems, they implement rotating water cannons to cover large swaths of land. Install some of these and only turn them on when a fire is happening and a neighborhood is in danger. It’s not a complex idea.

LOL asking someone from CA if they've seen a crop sprinkler. Uh, yes, I have.
I tried to nicely explain already, but it's clear you are not familiar with fires, the terrain, or the water or electricity situation. But sure, you solved it, good job.

Yeah, still not sure how this idea isnt better than nothing. A quick google search shows that apparently there are companies that do provide this service. Adapting it to be an integral part of a community’s infrastructure would make sense.

https://www.wildfirewater.com/

I think this area would be hard because it is all hills and houses. There isn't space to put a massive sprinkler system.

I assume planes can scoop up water from the ocean to fight the fire? I am not sure how that works.

No you can’t dump sea water all over the land because you will salt the soil and nothing will ever grow there again.

Do you know how much salt is in a gallon of seawater? An aerial tanker might spread 2,500 gallons of water per drop, over an area of about 2 acres in size. How many grams of salt per square foot would we be “salting” the soil with? Why don’t you look into it and then do some math. Then look up if that amount of salt in the soil has any appreciable affect on vegetation.

I already know the answer, but it’s important that you see for yourself.

Plus they ARE scooping water from the ocean and dropping it.

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/watch-firefighters-scoop-ocean-water-to-battle-palisades-fire/