Are top private colleges mainly for poor people now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle class kids end up at community college, trade school or state school. Maybe Harvard is full of 2/3 poor and 1/3 rich, but most of the SLAC are full of rich kids. [b]

Why more rich kids at SLAC than Harvard?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Middle class kids end up at community college, trade school or state school. Maybe Harvard is full of 2/3 poor and 1/3 rich, but most of the SLAC are full of rich kids. [b]

Why more rich kids at SLAC than Harvard?

The average person in Walmart has never heard of Williams or Amherst. You can bet they’ve heard of Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many low-income kids are from families that can afford to live in a “good” school zone or attend private k-12, even if some FA is offered? How many poor kids do you think went to Kumon or Mathnasium? Or got to participate in club sports? I could go on.

One doesn’t need to have attended a “good” school to get into a top college. They need to be a top performer at the school they are at.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Middle class kids end up at community college, trade school or state school. Maybe Harvard is full of 2/3 poor and 1/3 rich, but most of the SLAC are full of rich kids. [b]

Why more rich kids at SLAC than Harvard?

The average person in Walmart has never heard of Williams or Amherst. You can bet they’ve heard of Harvard.

SLAC financial aid stats similar to Ivy. 65 percent of Vassar is on need based aid w/average award in the 50k range.

SLACs have high endowments per student too, often higher than Ivy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am divorced with a part time job at a school district and I technically qualify for public assistance. None of it was planned (bad divorce etc) but considering the aid my kid can get maybe I’ll just keep it the way it is. The kid lives with me and is on my taxes.

Be aware that top privates also consider financial information from the noncustodial parent via the CSS Profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Borrowing from another thread.

This is exemplifies what is happening. You’ve got a premier student who couldn’t apply RD to dream school for financial reasons, parents weren’t comfortable with price tag anyway, now most likely headed to state flagship. A top performing UMC kid iced out of top private college due to cost.

“She didn’t ED to keep her options open. That was mostly because of DH & me, due to the cost of college and wanting to see any scholarship options available. She will most likely wind up at our state flagship on a full tuition scholarship, so that’s nothing to sneeze at and we’re grateful she has that option. Still, we probably would have made it work for Swat. DD wanted to leave our area for college to experience a different part of the country.”

So she will attend the honors college (most likely) at the state flagship and graduate debt free, most likely with her parents able to help fund graduate school if desired, because they only paid R&B and misc expenses.
That's exactly what everyone except the wealthy would choose. Thousdands do it each year, be it state flagship or another non T40-50 private school that gives excellent merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Borrowing from another thread.

This is exemplifies what is happening. You’ve got a premier student who couldn’t apply RD to dream school for financial reasons, parents weren’t comfortable with price tag anyway, now most likely headed to state flagship. A top performing UMC kid iced out of top private college due to cost.

“She didn’t ED to keep her options open. That was mostly because of DH & me, due to the cost of college and wanting to see any scholarship options available. She will most likely wind up at our state flagship on a full tuition scholarship, so that’s nothing to sneeze at and we’re grateful she has that option. Still, we probably would have made it work for Swat. DD wanted to leave our area for college to experience a different part of the country.”

So she will attend the honors college (most likely) at the state flagship and graduate debt free, most likely with her parents able to help fund graduate school if desired, because they only paid R&B and misc expenses.
That's exactly what everyone except the wealthy would choose. Thousdands do it each year, be it state flagship or another non T40-50 private school that gives excellent merit.

If low income- they would have applied to Swat ED and gotten a full ride or close to it. So these schools are from a practical perspective more accessible to low income students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Borrowing from another thread.

This is exemplifies what is happening. You’ve got a premier student who couldn’t apply RD to dream school for financial reasons, parents weren’t comfortable with price tag anyway, now most likely headed to state flagship. A top performing UMC kid iced out of top private college due to cost.

“She didn’t ED to keep her options open. That was mostly because of DH & me, due to the cost of college and wanting to see any scholarship options available. She will most likely wind up at our state flagship on a full tuition scholarship, so that’s nothing to sneeze at and we’re grateful she has that option. Still, we probably would have made it work for Swat. DD wanted to leave our area for college to experience a different part of the country.”

So she will attend the honors college (most likely) at the state flagship and graduate debt free, most likely with her parents able to help fund graduate school if desired, because they only paid R&B and misc expenses.
That's exactly what everyone except the wealthy would choose. Thousdands do it each year, be it state flagship or another non T40-50 private school that gives excellent merit.

If low income- they would have applied to Swat ED and gotten a full ride or close to it. So these schools are from a practical perspective more accessible to low income students

And low income students have many more hurdles in life to deal with to get to being a top student to gain admission to a school like that. Don't know about you, but I'd much rather be a donut hole kid who grew up with privilege (parents making $150-200K) than a low income kid. Hands down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Borrowing from another thread.

This is exemplifies what is happening. You’ve got a premier student who couldn’t apply RD to dream school for financial reasons, parents weren’t comfortable with price tag anyway, now most likely headed to state flagship. A top performing UMC kid iced out of top private college due to cost.

“She didn’t ED to keep her options open. That was mostly because of DH & me, due to the cost of college and wanting to see any scholarship options available. She will most likely wind up at our state flagship on a full tuition scholarship, so that’s nothing to sneeze at and we’re grateful she has that option. Still, we probably would have made it work for Swat. DD wanted to leave our area for college to experience a different part of the country.”

So she will attend the honors college (most likely) at the state flagship and graduate debt free, most likely with her parents able to help fund graduate school if desired, because they only paid R&B and misc expenses.
That's exactly what everyone except the wealthy would choose. Thousdands do it each year, be it state flagship or another non T40-50 private school that gives excellent merit.

If low income- they would have applied to Swat ED and gotten a full ride or close to it. So these schools are from a practical perspective more accessible to low income students

Most low-income kids have never heard of Swat. No exposure to it. I bet most people in Delaware County have never heard of it, either.

[Anonymous]

I randomly picked Princeton and did the net price calculator. Said my AGI is 200k, $100k in a kids 529, $100k of home equity, $100k in savings and a MD resident.

Princeton spit out I would be eligible for $48k in annual grants, so all in net price of $35k.

I am sure people will pick apart the inputs…but I don’t get these schools provide nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I randomly picked Princeton and did the net price calculator. Said my AGI is 200k, $100k in a kids 529, $100k of home equity, $100k in savings and a MD resident.

Princeton spit out I would be eligible for $48k in annual grants, so all in net price of $35k.

I am sure people will pick apart the inputs…but I don’t get these schools provide nothing.

Princeton is like no other for us. We have EFC of about 40k there and more like 80k everywhere else. We’re much lower income but higher assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I randomly picked Princeton and did the net price calculator. Said my AGI is 200k, $100k in a kids 529, $100k of home equity, $100k in savings and a MD resident.

Princeton spit out I would be eligible for $48k in annual grants, so all in net price of $35k.

I am sure people will pick apart the inputs…but I don’t get these schools provide nothing.

Princeton is like no other for us. We have EFC of about 40k there and more like 80k everywhere else. We’re much lower income but higher assets.

She randomly picked the school with the highest endowment per student in the world by a country mile

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor or Rich

Middle class are fukced

This.

Middle class should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make more money then.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Often 2/3 of students at top ranked schools are getting need based aid that covers the vast majority of costs, on average.

200k is the typical cut off for need based aid (about the income level of a couple of school teachers at the peak of their careers aka “the wealthy”)

It just seems these schools must be populated primarily with lower income kids and then 1/3 rich kids.

I guess middle class kids end up at state school.

Poverty line is $35k per year. Median American income is $69k. $200 k annual warning is top 10% nationally.

$220K in DC area is considered MC. It depends on where you live.

Choosing to live in an expensive zip code doesn’t change what socioeconomic class you’re in.

Once again, people don't necessarily "choose" to live in a hcol; they go where the jobs are. Notice how during the pandemic when people could wfh, a lot of people moved out of higher col areas. But, now many are returning because companies are requiring RTO.

220k will get you a 900k house in Silver Spring, IB for perfectly good schools, close enough to the metro to commute that way but also not an insane driving commute, meals out a few times a week, a few nice vacations a year, two cars, and once you've saved up for that first down payment and gotten through the childcare years, you'll be able to max out your retirement and put a ton away towards college (unless you choose to have more than 2 kids, but that is on you friend).

The issue is that those of you in this income bracket don't want to live in a 1950s split level in Silver Spring because you think it's beneath you. You think you are middle class because you are living in a house built for a middle class person in 1955. But this is what happens in high COL areas. It doesn't magically make you middle class. You are living in a house worth close to a million dollars. Middle class peopel can't afford that.

OK, but even in Silver Spring, median income is much higher than somewhere like WV. Like I said, it depends on where you live.

Your argument is that the high cost of living magically makes someone making over 200k middle class, but if that income provides you with plenty of very nice options in the region without an obscenely long commute, then no, it doesn't. You're UMC. But none of this matters because (1) your kid isn't getting into Harvard anyway, and (2) if they do, you could absolutely afford to pay the sticker price, it would just take some sacrifice on your part. Whereas an actual middle class family, making under 150k/yr, simply could not afford it no matter how much they sacrifice because they can't afford any kind of home PLUS 70k/yr in tuition. Thus they get money and you don't. Get over it, and maybe focus your attention on making public colleges and universities very high quality and affordable to anyone. Harvard gets to decide how they handle their endowment themselves. They disagree with you.

? my kid is going to a state university, but you are side stepping the point because you can't argue with the point: it's ridiculous that these colleges expect a family that is making $280K to pay the same amount as a family making $800K.

Harvard gets federal money for research. Why on earth should they get all that money if their endowment is so large that they could let in every freshmen come in for free for 10 years or more. Those schools are greedy, and the rich are keeping it that way for a reason. It makes such schools unreachable for the majority simply due to finances.

Spot on.

To add to this, they are making everything a racial issue. So they are prioritizing black and Hispanic students and giving full rides to many (most?) of them. It's all part of a political compromise where rich people for whom $80k a year is nothing retain priority access for their progeny to the schools that feed into the highest layer of the economy. They don't want smart upper middle class kids competing for these seats with their kids.

They are deflecting from the outrageous cost of a private education by pounding the table on DEI and FGLI. Btw, DEI also lets them put a lid on the middle class Asians who have been outcompeting their kids.

Financial aid has nothing to do with race. Bolded is a total myth.

Are you really contending that if you looked at the racial composition of the 50-60% fo the Ivy student body that receives need based aid averaging $50-55k, you would not see a distinct skew towards URM students? How can that not be the case when we see the income statistics nationally of households sorted by race? Black and Hispanic families make far less than whites and Asians earn more than anyone.

The argument is not that they bend the rules in favor of URMs, it's that URMs are more likely to qualify for aid under the rules. Because URMs are less affluent, which is the main reason they are URMs!

DP.. if the majority of URM students are from wealthy families, then it doesn't matter what national statistics look like.

So you are arguing that URMs are *under-represented* among financial aid recipients? I'm sorry, I went to a school like this. Certainly some URM kids were probably not getting much aid but most I knew would have been.

? That wasn't the point. A PP somewhere stated that the majority black students at elite schools are from wealthier families. So, it doesn't matter that national statistics show that there is a higher % of low income black families.

Are there stats that breakdown the demographics of financial aid recipients at these colleges?

I'm sure there are URM who get need based aid, but there are also asian and white students who get aid, too. I don't know what that breakdown looks like. I was simply stating that if it's true that the majority of black students at Harvard, let's say, are from wealthier families, then need based aid is not really race related, as a PP claimed.

Schools would never share this data but I would be floored if there wasn't a meaningful URM tilt in the group of students receiving substantial financial aid. Notwithstanding the article that was posted. And frankly there should be a URM tilt--because I thought the whole point of DEI was to provide opportunities to disadvantaged kids

But need based isn't based on race, and the % of URM at elite colleges is small. Like I said, you'd have to know the income demographics of the students to know what the aid breakdown looks like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor or Rich

Middle class are fukced

This.

Middle class should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make more money then.

Truly middle class people get aid. It’s the faux middle class wealthy who spend every penny they ever get who are screwed.