Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Got to love it when a plan comes together. Bet this was Biden’s plan all a long.

It seems that Israel is finally opening up to the idea of a two-state solution to its conflict with Palestine—so long as the second state is on a completely different continent.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right coalition has been secretly speaking with the Democratic Republic of Congo about resettling thousands of Palestinians in the African nation, the Israeli outlet Zman Israel reported Wednesday.

Netanyahu and his allies floated the idea of sending Palestinians elsewhere last week, but the idea has been vehemently rejected by the international community. Moreover, Congo is unlikely to have the resources necessary to take care of such a massive influx of displaced people. More than half of the country’s population lives below the poverty line, according to the World Food Programme.

Israeli officials have made it increasingly clear in recent days that their plan is to completely eliminate Palestine. Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said Monday that a way to solve the war was to “encourage the voluntary migration of Gaza’s residents to countries that will agree to take in the refugees.

But it seems that Smotrich and Ben Gvir’s statements do reflect the policy of the Israeli government. Nearly all of the 2.3 million people living in the Gaza Strip have been displaced due to Israel’s unrelenting bombardment of the region. Palestinians were forced to flee to designated “safe zones,” only for Israel to bomb those areas, as well.

https://newrepublic.com/post/177837/report-israel-expel-palestinians-gaza-third-country-congo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

Listen, if your one accomplishment is your embrace of terrorism, you might aim a little higher...

From the knees to the crotch.

Oh they got the crotch, didn't they? Hamas terrorists broke pelvises, shot/stabbed/drove nails into crotches. Swell bunch of guys you folks admire.

I see we still have someone who thinks ZAKA reports are trustworthy despite ample evidence of lies and incompetence . Okay.

Wait, wtf? There are people who deny that horrific rape and sexual abuse happened? The animals video'd themselves.

Yes Virginia, there are people who don’t believe ZAKA, an organization repeatedly caught in lies and incompetence, an organization that works in cahoots with Bibi. That’s what happens when you lie: people stop believing you.

You do realize that many of those videos were broadcast live, right? That the people doing the raping and the killing and the beating were showing it off as they were doing it? There are plenty of things to ask hard questions about but this is not one of them. October 7th happened. It was perpetrated by Hamas. They raped people, they killed people, they beat people. It happened.

That can be true AND Zaka's stories can be false. This is not mutually impossible. You do realize the 40-babies story was false, right? After it was repeated around the world? After they were found lying, why are their reports still being quoted chapter and verse?

[Anonymous]

Palestinian victims will reach 50 thousands or more before Biden threatens to slow the supply of weapons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

Listen, if your one accomplishment is your embrace of terrorism, you might aim a little higher...

From the knees to the crotch.

Oh they got the crotch, didn't they? Hamas terrorists broke pelvises, shot/stabbed/drove nails into crotches. Swell bunch of guys you folks admire.

I see we still have someone who thinks ZAKA reports are trustworthy despite ample evidence of lies and incompetence . Okay.

Wait, wtf? There are people who deny that horrific rape and sexual abuse happened? The animals video'd themselves.

Yes Virginia, there are people who don’t believe ZAKA, an organization repeatedly caught in lies and incompetence, an organization that works in cahoots with Bibi. That’s what happens when you lie: people stop believing you.

You do realize that many of those videos were broadcast live, right? That the people doing the raping and the killing and the beating were showing it off as they were doing it? There are plenty of things to ask hard questions about but this is not one of them. October 7th happened. It was perpetrated by Hamas. They raped people, they killed people, they beat people. It happened.

You people just killed 22,000 people and made 2.3 million homeless as part of a plan to depopulation of Gaza. You can not say Hamas is worst vs Israel. There is no reporting from Gaza because you target and kill reporters from Gaza. Every day Israel commits Oct 7 over and over again while saying anyone who did Oct 7 is inhuman. Look in the mirror. You have become Nazi germany.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Palestinian victims will reach 50 thousands or more before Biden threatens to slow the supply of weapons.

Biden will never slow the supply of weapons. Biden is at war with the Palestinians civilians. This war has shown what a fake he is. He pushes out how his family was taken away from him and how hard it is on the survivors…less you are a Palestinian. Palestinians and others just are not considered human by Biden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Palestinian victims will reach 50 thousands or more before Biden threatens to slow the supply of weapons.

The people buried in rubble have not been counted
There is no water, food scarcity is acute, an outbreak of cholera has been reported
So the number of dead could already be close to that number

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

This is an accomplishment?

I dunno what to tell you. I come from a place where blood vendettas are still practiced. If you were a much stronger military power that stole my land and took away my civil rights, I would consider it a terrific accomplishment if your children cowered in fear now and again.

Right?

So in that moral world, it's totally acceptable to murder, rape, torture, and kidnap the "other." And then when the "other." who is much stronger militarily, obliterates your family and friends, it's ok. Because for a brief Saturday morning, the "other's" children cowered in fear.

Totally worth it.

Welcome to Palestinian thinking.

What do you think is acceptable resistance to land theft and disenfranchisement? To settler violence? Tell us. The West Bank is waiting with bated breath.

DP.

1. Attack military targets; or

2. Accept one of the 47 peace deals (exaggerating, but only slightly) that has been offered since 1947 that would give you a state, albeit an imperfect one.

Interesting. So do I take it you'll give them a pass for attacking a military base and taking a bunch of soldiers hostage? Just checking.

Also, is it okay to respond to settler violence with violence? Would that be terrorism or something else? Again just checking.

Yes on attacking a military base. Go for it. (But Israel would then have the right to respond militarily with attacks against military targets).

Yes on using force to defend against settler violence. Right to self-defense is a given. Not terrorism.

Attacking settlers not engaged in violence = terrorism.

It's pretty straightforward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a lovely lady! Give them a few weeks and they'll say that they need it for science or something.

It’s war. Hamas shouldn’t have started it.
Also, Israel already has members of Hamas and Gazans acting as CIs and on the take. How do you think they got Hamas’ number two lackey?
Must suck for Hamas fighters as they realize the guy they’re sharing a tunnel with might very well be feeding the Mossad and Shin Bet intelligence.

Should Hitler have said the same? That war justifies everything? How would you have felt then? To this day people are not allowed to forget holocaust but Israelis are too happy to justify their own holocaust the moment they amassed power? Really???

Ok, of everyone said the war ends today, and let's return to status quo as of 10/6 with no more violence, would you be ok with that? No you would not. You just want a one sided war, not one that ends.

Israel has to pay for the rebuilding of Gaza.

No. Not really. Hamas invaded Israel.

Consequences are consequences. Hamas started a war and war is what they're getting.

Still unclear what the plan was when Hamas invaded Israel and committed all those atrocities.

And now Israel has invaded Gaza and is committing atrocities and not allowing reporters in
Consequences are consequences, there is going to have to be an exit plan and it will all come to light
There is still the internal criminal court of justice

I believe that the supporters of Israel on this forum do not understand the depth of the issue and are blind to the immense suffering that is being perpetrated by Israel

I don't have a horse in this race, but I think that you're greatly overestimating the negative consequences to Israel.

Fact is, most countries DGAF about other nations' human rights violations. I mean, China is still courted despite the Uighur situation, Saudi despite everything, Egypt despite the Copts, etc., etc., etc.

International outrage tends to be a lot of noise, not much action.

The consequences for Israel may not occur overnight. Israel has irreparably tarnished its reputation. In the United States and much of the Global North, the default position for the past 75 years was knee-jerk support and sympathy for Israel. Now, and particularly among the younger generation, that's dramatically changed. Inevitably, this will eventually translate into reduced financial, political, and military support for Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Palestinian victims will reach 50 thousands or more before Biden threatens to slow the supply of weapons.

Biden will never slow the supply of weapons. Biden is at war with the Palestinians civilians. This war has shown what a fake he is. He pushes out how his family was taken away from him and how hard it is on the survivors…less you are a Palestinian. Palestinians and others just are not considered human by Biden.

I agree. Biden needs to resign -- for everyone's sake. He represents a paradigm that recently died.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

Listen, if your one accomplishment is your embrace of terrorism, you might aim a little higher...

From the knees to the crotch.

Oh they got the crotch, didn't they? Hamas terrorists broke pelvises, shot/stabbed/drove nails into crotches. Swell bunch of guys you folks admire.

I see we still have someone who thinks ZAKA reports are trustworthy despite ample evidence of lies and incompetence . Okay.

Wait, wtf? There are people who deny that horrific rape and sexual abuse happened? The animals video'd themselves.

Yes Virginia, there are people who don’t believe ZAKA, an organization repeatedly caught in lies and incompetence, an organization that works in cahoots with Bibi. That’s what happens when you lie: people stop believing you.

You do realize that many of those videos were broadcast live, right? That the people doing the raping and the killing and the beating were showing it off as they were doing it? There are plenty of things to ask hard questions about but this is not one of them. October 7th happened. It was perpetrated by Hamas. They raped people, they killed people, they beat people. It happened.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Ya know?
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4827240,00.html

IDF's chief rabbi-to-be permits raping women in wartime
Col. Eyal Karim, the IDF's intended next chief rabbi, has previously provided misogynistic interpretations of Jewish law that consider female conscription 'utterly forbidden' and permits raping 'attracting Gentile women' as a way to keep up morale; female MKs and women's rights organizations, incensed, call for his appointment to be cancelled.

For several years, Karim has responded to questions posed to him on the religious website Kipa. One such question was "What are the problems with conscripting girls to the army?"

"Because the damage to modesty that is likely to be caused to a girl and to the nation is decisive, the greats of the generation and the chief rabbinate have ruled that girls serving in the IDF is completely forbidden."

The rabbi gave a more shocking answer on the same site when asked if soldiers were permitted to rape women during war. Karim replied that, as part of maintaining fitness for the army and the soldiers' morale during fighting, it is permitted to "breach" the walls of modesty and "satisfy the evil inclination by lying with attractive Gentile women against their will, out of consideration for the difficulties faced by the soldiers and for overall success."

In 2011, the colonel gave an opinion that, according to Jewish law, female singers should not perform at IDF ceremonies. "It's desirable to create a ceremonial post that respects the views of all those present at the ceremony, and, to that end, to bring a male and not a female singer," he wrote. "When this would not be possible, due to various reasons, those whose sensitivities would be offended must be excused from attending the ceremony."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

This is an accomplishment?

I dunno what to tell you. I come from a place where blood vendettas are still practiced. If you were a much stronger military power that stole my land and took away my civil rights, I would consider it a terrific accomplishment if your children cowered in fear now and again.

Right?

So in that moral world, it's totally acceptable to murder, rape, torture, and kidnap the "other." And then when the "other." who is much stronger militarily, obliterates your family and friends, it's ok. Because for a brief Saturday morning, the "other's" children cowered in fear.

Totally worth it.

Welcome to Palestinian thinking.

What do you think is acceptable resistance to land theft and disenfranchisement? To settler violence? Tell us. The West Bank is waiting with bated breath.

DP.

1. Attack military targets; or

2. Accept one of the 47 peace deals (exaggerating, but only slightly) that has been offered since 1947 that would give you a state, albeit an imperfect one.

Interesting. So do I take it you'll give them a pass for attacking a military base and taking a bunch of soldiers hostage? Just checking.

Also, is it okay to respond to settler violence with violence? Would that be terrorism or something else? Again just checking.

Yes on attacking a military base. Go for it. (But Israel would then have the right to respond militarily with attacks against military targets).

Yes on using force to defend against settler violence. Right to self-defense is a given. Not terrorism.

Attacking settlers not engaged in violence = terrorism.

It's pretty straightforward.

Is it though? A settler, even if not engaged in outright violence, is settling on the illegally seized land. His entire presence on the land is an act of theft and violence that invites self-defense. What is the appropriate self-defending response to illegal settlements?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

This is an accomplishment?

I dunno what to tell you. I come from a place where blood vendettas are still practiced. If you were a much stronger military power that stole my land and took away my civil rights, I would consider it a terrific accomplishment if your children cowered in fear now and again.

Right?

So in that moral world, it's totally acceptable to murder, rape, torture, and kidnap the "other." And then when the "other." who is much stronger militarily, obliterates your family and friends, it's ok. Because for a brief Saturday morning, the "other's" children cowered in fear.

Totally worth it.

Welcome to Palestinian thinking.

What do you think is acceptable resistance to land theft and disenfranchisement? To settler violence? Tell us. The West Bank is waiting with bated breath.

DP.

1. Attack military targets; or

2. Accept one of the 47 peace deals (exaggerating, but only slightly) that has been offered since 1947 that would give you a state, albeit an imperfect one.

Interesting. So do I take it you'll give them a pass for attacking a military base and taking a bunch of soldiers hostage? Just checking.

Also, is it okay to respond to settler violence with violence? Would that be terrorism or something else? Again just checking.

Yes on attacking a military base. Go for it. (But Israel would then have the right to respond militarily with attacks against military targets).

Yes on using force to [b]defend against settler violence. Right to self-defense is a given. Not terrorism.[/b]

Attacking settlers not engaged in violence = terrorism.

It's pretty straightforward.

Is there a right to defend territory from settlers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

This is an accomplishment?

I dunno what to tell you. I come from a place where blood vendettas are still practiced. If you were a much stronger military power that stole my land and took away my civil rights, I would consider it a terrific accomplishment if your children cowered in fear now and again.

Right?

So in that moral world, it's totally acceptable to murder, rape, torture, and kidnap the "other." And then when the "other." who is much stronger militarily, obliterates your family and friends, it's ok. Because for a brief Saturday morning, the "other's" children cowered in fear.

Totally worth it.

Welcome to Palestinian thinking.

What do you think is acceptable resistance to land theft and disenfranchisement? To settler violence? Tell us. The West Bank is waiting with bated breath.

DP.

1. Attack military targets; or

2. Accept one of the 47 peace deals (exaggerating, but only slightly) that has been offered since 1947 that would give you a state, albeit an imperfect one.

Interesting. So do I take it you'll give them a pass for attacking a military base and taking a bunch of soldiers hostage? Just checking.

Also, is it okay to respond to settler violence with violence? Would that be terrorism or something else? Again just checking.

Yes on attacking a military base. Go for it. (But Israel would then have the right to respond militarily with attacks against military targets).

Yes on using force to defend against settler violence. Right to self-defense is a given. Not terrorism.

Attacking settlers not engaged in violence = terrorism.

It's pretty straightforward.

Is it though? A settler, even if not engaged in outright violence, is settling on the illegally seized land. His entire presence on the land is an act of theft and violence that invites self-defense. What is the appropriate self-defending response to illegal settlements?

Assuming for a moment that the land is illegally seized (I tend to agree that it is, but obviously a contentious issue), the governing authority (the PA in this case) should forcibly remove the settlers and reclaim the settled land.

If the settlers resist with violence, then self-defense rules are triggered.

If the Israeli government defends the settlers, then the right to use military force against the Israeli armed forces applies.

Here, you pretty obviously jump to the last option because (a) the PA is toothless and corrupt, (b) the current Israeli government supports the settlements, and (c) the Palestinians have chosen not to accept the various 2 state solutions, so they're not a fully sovereign country.

So the legitimate choices for Palestinian response are: declare war with Israel and attack Israeli military targets or make the best peace deal they can get.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Isn’t anyone going to comment?

US confirms hospital used by Hamas.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

What, no WMD? No glass vial to shake?

Not a subscriber to NY times, but I can tell you that neither side is squeaky clean or spotless and the first casualty in war is the truth.
Right now it is the Palestinians who are doing the dying and suffering in very large numbers.
The end does not justify the means, not anymore

The bolded- it has ALWAYS been Palestinians being murdered and otherwise killed in very large numbers since the late 1940s, and 10/7/23 is the sole exception. When you frame the conflict as you do, it’s dishonest.

Yes, they have a lot of casualties because they start wars and can't finish them. They are not the victims.

“They”? Do you think all Palestinians are to blame? Such a lack of compassion.

My understanding from reading history is that Zionists were the original provocateurs. Palestinians responded. Violence escalated with each and every back and forth. Vastly more Palestinians have died (and kidnapped, ie held without charges) than Israeli over the years. The suffering that the escalation has now reached is terrible. And has just created a new generation of people who hate Israel.

I hope the US begins to link support to Israel to changes in how they treat Palestinians. I believe this will happen in the next 20-30 years.

It doesn’t matter what you want to think or what thoughts give you comfort. The truth is, the Palestinians start conflicts, the people they started conflicts with fight back, the Palestinians can't match the fighting, then cry victim. If you want to think, think about this, after all these years of fighting, why do the Palestinians have NOTHING they want? No accomplishments?

They do. You just can't see it. Israelis and Palestinians have an unspoken contract as so many do in the Middle East. Here are the terms:

Israelis: Palestinians, I will take your land.

Palestinians: you will, but you will never feel safe in it.

This is an accomplishment?

I dunno what to tell you. I come from a place where blood vendettas are still practiced. If you were a much stronger military power that stole my land and took away my civil rights, I would consider it a terrific accomplishment if your children cowered in fear now and again.

Right?

So in that moral world, it's totally acceptable to murder, rape, torture, and kidnap the "other." And then when the "other." who is much stronger militarily, obliterates your family and friends, it's ok. Because for a brief Saturday morning, the "other's" children cowered in fear.

Totally worth it.

Welcome to Palestinian thinking.

What do you think is acceptable resistance to land theft and disenfranchisement? To settler violence? Tell us. The West Bank is waiting with bated breath.

DP.

1. Attack military targets; or

2. Accept one of the 47 peace deals (exaggerating, but only slightly) that has been offered since 1947 that would give you a state, albeit an imperfect one.

Interesting. So do I take it you'll give them a pass for attacking a military base and taking a bunch of soldiers hostage? Just checking.

Also, is it okay to respond to settler violence with violence? Would that be terrorism or something else? Again just checking.

Yes on attacking a military base. Go for it. (But Israel would then have the right to respond militarily with attacks against military targets).

Yes on using force to [b]defend against settler violence. Right to self-defense is a given. Not terrorism.[/b]

Attacking settlers not engaged in violence = terrorism.

It's pretty straightforward.

Is there a right to defend territory from settlers?

Answered a similar question just above--see response. Another way of thinking about it:

Does a Texas rancher have the right to shoot undocumented immigrants who squat on her land?

What if the Mexican government supported and encouraged such settlements?

My view is that neither the rancher nor the US government would have the right to shoot the immigrants, but that the US government would have the right to remove the immigrants and/or declare war on Mexico and attack Mexican military targets pursuant to international law and the rules of war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Got to love it when a plan comes together. Bet this was Biden’s plan all a long.

It seems that Israel is finally opening up to the idea of a two-state solution to its conflict with Palestine—so long as the second state is on a completely different continent.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s far-right coalition has been secretly speaking with the Democratic Republic of Congo about resettling thousands of Palestinians in the African nation, the Israeli outlet Zman Israel reported Wednesday.

Netanyahu and his allies floated the idea of sending Palestinians elsewhere last week, but the idea has been vehemently rejected by the international community. Moreover, Congo is unlikely to have the resources necessary to take care of such a massive influx of displaced people. More than half of the country’s population lives below the poverty line, according to the World Food Programme.

Israeli officials have made it increasingly clear in recent days that their plan is to completely eliminate Palestine. Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said Monday that a way to solve the war was to “encourage the voluntary migration of Gaza’s residents to countries that will agree to take in the refugees.

But it seems that Smotrich and Ben Gvir’s statements do reflect the policy of the Israeli government. Nearly all of the 2.3 million people living in the Gaza Strip have been displaced due to Israel’s unrelenting bombardment of the region. Palestinians were forced to flee to designated “safe zones,” only for Israel to bomb those areas, as well.

https://newrepublic.com/post/177837/report-israel-expel-palestinians-gaza-third-country-congo

Wonder how the US will be transporting the 2.3 million to the Congo? Will the Israel deliver the human cargo in chains to the US military be transported away? Wish someone would ask Blinken or Kirby about the logistics of this.