Would you move to DC?

[Anonymous]

I am currently an associate in biglaw (not DC) and have been offered another opportunity at a smaller, more public service focused law firm in DC. I grew up in mid-county Montgomery County and was excited to go back to to be near my family but am getting cold feet because of the housing prices and general type-A ness that I already knew existed in the DC area from when I grew up but seems to have reached a fever pitch, at least judging by this forum, and seems to be worse the closer to the city you get.

My wife and have saved a lot of money by living very frugally and some good fortune (about $650k plus an interest in a very small vested pension). We have a one year old daughter and hope to have at least one more child. We are now not living frugally due to crazy rent + daycare in the downtown of an equally expensive city (our living expenses this year will probably be 85k, up from probably 45k combined pre-child) but other than rent / daycare we just naturally don't spend much other than my bad habit of chipotle at lunch.

We would both view this as Scrooge McDuck type money to have at our age (early 30s), but apparently the $300k that is not in retirement accounts would just be a downpayment for a "tear-down" in Bethesda right now (which we would have no intention of tearing down were we lucky enough to acquire one), which would still leave me with a 45 minute plus commute down to K street and a big, big mortgage that would be tough to swallow on the new salary (around $130k, although that should rise slowly over time) and hopefully a second baby soon. We could do Silver Spring instead but then the homes are "only" $600k and the redline there is slightly slower to get into DC. (A friend just bought there and said his door to door commute downtown is a little under an hour.)

This is all great for all of you that have seen massive appreciation on your homes in the last decade or so, but to a first time buyer looking at the region from outside this just seems absurd. My wife is from Philadelphia and in the nice Philly suburbs we could buy a larger house with a larger lot for probably $400k (e.g., with virually no mortgage if we didn't want one) and daycare would be cheaper and the schools better than Silver Spring (but not Bethesda). If I got a job at reasonable suburban law firm or company I could probably swing a 15-20 minute commute and given the savings we've accumulated would have literally no financial worries for the rest of our lives and in fact could probably retire early and/or work for a nonprofit before 40 if I really wanted to (I've run the numbers), although I would probably work just to stay occupied. We would still be in an area with lots of educated people, many of whom seem to be significantly more laid-back and family-oriented than those in DC.

I am worried that by taking this job I would be just signing up to start a DC rat race that I would rather not run, surrounded in equal parts by obscenely wealthy people whose lifestyle I couldn't, and wouldn't want to, match, and the DC phenomenon of "rich-working-poor" types with $150k incomes and minimal savings, and that they would all be workaholics. I am not naturally type-A but can get caught up in that mentality if its around me (and can compete, and win, and be unhappy doing so).

DC (like NY/SF) seems to be an awesome for highly-educated DINKS to make money quickly but raising a family here while working a job downtown sounds extremely difficult with long hours, long commutes, high housing prices and (in MD at least) high taxes. Is it still possible for someone in DC to work a professional job downtown, not be mortgaged to their eyeballs, raise kids in a good school district, and still be home for dinner? Because this is still possible in many other cities in the county.

Should I just take the money and run to somewhere where I can raise a family in peace, or try out the job in DC and see how it goes? I know there is a lot of money in DC, but I am struggling to believe that so many people can swing $1 million plus homes here and keep their finances in order, so maybe I should just come and rent for a few years then pick up the pieces if interest rates rise and prices go back to at least somewhat approximating what they were when I was growing up?

[Anonymous]

If I were you, I would run to Philadelphia without looking back. You have so much upside. And the schools are probably just as good if not better than the ones in Bethesda. Montgomery County SD isn't as terrible as a lot of people on DCUM say but it isn't as great as it's PR either. We were thrilled to be moving to what we thought was one of the best schools in one of the best school districts in the country and it was a rude awakening. There are a lot of great schools in this country. We are now in another large city in PA and the schools are amazing, as I'm sure they are in Philadelphia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were you, I would run to Philadelphia without looking back. You have so much upside. And the schools are probably just as good if not better than the ones in Bethesda. Montgomery County SD isn't as terrible as a lot of people on DCUM say but it isn't as great as it's PR either. We were thrilled to be moving to what we thought was one of the best schools in one of the best school districts in the country and it was a rude awakening. There are a lot of great schools in this country. We are now in another large city in PA and the schools are amazing, as I'm sure they are in Philadelphia.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am currently an associate in biglaw (not DC) and have been offered another opportunity at a smaller, more public service focused law firm in DC. I grew up in mid-county Montgomery County and was excited to go back to to be near my family but am getting cold feet because of the housing prices and general type-A ness that I already knew existed in the DC area from when I grew up but seems to have reached a fever pitch, at least judging by this forum, and seems to be worse the closer to the city you get.

My wife and have saved a lot of money by living very frugally and some good fortune (about $650k plus an interest in a very small vested pension). We have a one year old daughter and hope to have at least one more child. We are now not living frugally due to crazy rent + daycare in the downtown of an equally expensive city (our living expenses this year will probably be 85k, up from probably 45k combined pre-child) but other than rent / daycare we just naturally don't spend much other than my bad habit of chipotle at lunch.

We would both view this as Scrooge McDuck type money to have at our age (early 30s), but apparently the $300k that is not in retirement accounts would just be a downpayment for a "tear-down" in Bethesda right now (which we would have no intention of tearing down were we lucky enough to acquire one), which would still leave me with a 45 minute plus commute down to K street and a big, big mortgage that would be tough to swallow on the new salary (around $130k, although that should rise slowly over time) and hopefully a second baby soon. We could do Silver Spring instead but then the homes are "only" $600k and the redline there is slightly slower to get into DC. (A friend just bought there and said his door to door commute downtown is a little under an hour.)

This is all great for all of you that have seen massive appreciation on your homes in the last decade or so, but to a first time buyer looking at the region from outside this just seems absurd. My wife is from Philadelphia and in the nice Philly suburbs we could buy a larger house with a larger lot for probably $400k (e.g., with virually no mortgage if we didn't want one) and daycare would be cheaper and the schools better than Silver Spring (but not Bethesda). If I got a job at reasonable suburban law firm or company I could probably swing a 15-20 minute commute and given the savings we've accumulated would have literally no financial worries for the rest of our lives and in fact could probably retire early and/or work for a nonprofit before 40 if I really wanted to (I've run the numbers), although I would probably work just to stay occupied. We would still be in an area with lots of educated people, many of whom seem to be significantly more laid-back and family-oriented than those in DC.

I am worried that by taking this job I would be just signing up to start a DC rat race that I would rather not run, surrounded in equal parts by obscenely wealthy people whose lifestyle I couldn't, and wouldn't want to, match, and the DC phenomenon of "rich-working-poor" types with $150k incomes and minimal savings, and that they would all be workaholics. I am not naturally type-A but can get caught up in that mentality if its around me (and can compete, and win, and be unhappy doing so).

DC (like NY/SF) seems to be an awesome for highly-educated DINKS to make money quickly but raising a family here while working a job downtown sounds extremely difficult with long hours, long commutes, high housing prices and (in MD at least) high taxes. Is it still possible for someone in DC to work a professional job downtown, not be mortgaged to their eyeballs, raise kids in a good school district, and still be home for dinner? Because this is still possible in many other cities in the county.

Should I just take the money and run to somewhere where I can raise a family in peace, or try out the job in DC and see how it goes? I know there is a lot of money in DC, but I am struggling to believe that so many people can swing $1 million plus homes here and keep their finances in order, so maybe I should just come and rent for a few years then pick up the pieces if interest rates rise and prices go back to at least somewhat approximating what they were when I was growing up?

I'd never raise a kid in the DC metro area. It's a rat race and absurdly overpriced. Enjoy Philly and an easier, more enjoyable life. You'll actually see your kids, if you live there.

[Anonymous]

Move to Philly.

[Anonymous]

Please, go to Philadelphia.

[Anonymous]

We were in this same situation last year but with not as much savings in the bank. We decided not to move to DC. Life with kids is easier and less expensive in other cities. We still like DC but gained a lot of perspective by living in other areas.

[Anonymous]

Near family matters more and more as kids grow in age and family grows in size. Come back for that.

[Anonymous]

I vote for Philly.

[Anonymous]

We made this choice on similar income. $300k, early 30s.

It was hard at first - the cost adjustment is no shit - but being nearly family is fantastic. Don't underestimate how awesome it will be for you kids to grow up near grandma and grandpa. It'll also be a huge plus day to day (wanna go to dinner? No problem with free babysitting). You know your parents best, but for is this was a huge plus.

[Anonymous]

At some point the grandparents will downsize. Might was be to the Philly area.

[Anonymous]

Philly for sure. One of the best city bangs for a buck. DC, not so much.

[Anonymous]

If you want to be closer to family, consider the Baltimore suburbs. Still a good bang for the buck, good schools, lower costs, less hassle than DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to be closer to family, consider the Baltimore suburbs. Still a good bang for the buck, good schools, lower costs, less hassle than DC.

I think Philadelphia is awful and I couldn't live there.....but I would jump there in a second to get out of DC if I could.

[Anonymous]

I live in Olney - work in the City. The commute is roughly an hour each way. The schools are good and people are very friendly. Housing is more reasonable than Bethesda.

The suburbs of Philly are great- but most people I know that live out that way, send their kids to private school (usually through a Church). The private schools there are much more reasonable than they are in DC. Housing prices are reasonable, school tax is a bit steep - but all in all- not too bad.

Right now, attorney positions are few and far between. While you have a job in DC - one in Philly may not be so easy to come by.