I’m a Dem here in Texas. Our wind turbines froze.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/texas...eeze/ar-BB1dOkgd?ocid=msedgntp One lady now faces a 6k power bill, and the disaster isn't over yet
Isn't this price-gouging?

I don't understand this. Aren't utility rates regulated? How does this work in Texas?

In Texas, they can pick their energy provider. The energy providers buy in bulk from the energy generators that run the power plants and wind mills then resell it to customers for a mark-up. Usually there's a set per kw/h price but it varies by provider. I used to live in Texas and still have family there. Griddy is a provider that, for a nominal fee, passes on the actual cost of the electricity to the customers. While most utilities would have that per kw/h allowable charge and would sort of even it out over the course of the year, Griddy literally exposes the customer to the full charge. These people picked Griddy in hopes that they'd be able to save a lot of money on power by using very little power during expensive times (generally the day during the summer) and more during the off times. Now there's more demand for electricity than generation and the per kw/h rate is high to entice electricity generators to provide additional power. So no there's no regulation and no this type of "utility" shouldn't actually be allowed. Sometimes regulation is there to protect you from yourself. Heat during a sub-zero winter event isn't the kind of thing that should be subject to market forces like a used car. Heat in the winter, A/C in extreme temperatures, and water (along with other basic utilities) are fundamental human rights and needed to live. As such, "Griddy" would not even be allowed to operate in most states. At this point, these people either have to shut off the power to their entire home from the breaker box or risk bankrupting themselves.

Hey, gambling on electric rates like it's a craps table is apparently freedom in Texas.

However, Griddy telling their customers to cancel their accounts as soon as a price spike hits? That's probably illegal. The fact that a price spike would someday hit is entirely forseeable, and they don't have the cash reserves to pay their suppliers.

Regrettably, nobody will go to jail. They will end up in bankruptcy. It's possible the consumers will still end up on the hook for the bills though, as the accounts receivable will get handed off to debt collectors. Or maybe Texas will do the very un-Texan thing and bail them out.

Apparently no other provider would take on new customers during the emergency so those customers were stuck with Griddy which is why they're being charged $1,000 a day for the pleasure of not freezing to death.

The company knows that the Feds will pay those bills

Will they? I mean, the state grid isn't regulated by the federal government. If the government pays those bills then they should be able to regulate Griddy.

Sometimes people make bad decisions and need to be bailed out of the consequences of their actions, when those consequences are too dire.

We don't need to stop bailing out people and companies. We need to tie bailouts to changes.

Massive market crash, and your bank can't survive? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Major hit to airline industries, who poured gains into shareholders' pocket instead of emergency reserve? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Giant failure of your state's attempt to run a power system on its own and by betting on emergencies not happening, so you don't need to carry reserves? Tie bailout to federal regulation.

I am really worried about the lives of Texans. This is ghastly, from the reports. They need help. Insofar as people were gambling and saying they were taking on the risk -- but not actually expecting to pay the price, if they lost that gamble -- something needs to be done so that this does not happen again.

[Anonymous]

It's the rich Texas establishment gambling with the lives of poor Texans. This will not change them, they will continue to do so, because they are not the ones dying or losing their homes. This is always what happens when you let a one-party state run itself. The wealthy business establishment takes over and runs the state as a patronage machine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's the rich Texas establishment gambling with the lives of poor Texans. This will not change them, they will continue to do so, because they are not the ones dying or losing their homes. This is always what happens when you let a one-party state run itself. The wealthy business establishment takes over and runs the state as a patronage machine.

I don't think this is right. Based on the fact that Senator Cruz had lost power, I'd guess that a lot of wealthy people aren't going to allow this to happen again. You can't do this to the wealthy and get away with it. Only the 99%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That’s the point! Nobody has a system with 100% backup. What you have is reserve margin which acts as what you’re calling backup. The storm knocked out the reserve margin. There isn’t a system in the US is built to withstand a 4 standard deviation event. Everybody wants to act like you can just plan to this event, but it doesn’t work that way anywhere in the country.

No. What people are saying is that if the generators, in areas like Dallas, had undertaken standard winterization measures and Texas paid for emergency capacity, like the rest of us do, then they would not have been minutes away from a total grid collapse on Sunday.

What this shows is the inherent problems and limitations of an energy only market. That energy only market is the cause of the problem. It does not handle emeegency situations very well.

+1

There were several states facing the exact same temperatures, and they all fared better. So no matter how many standard deviations the pp wants to imply, it's factually wrong to say that nobody else was prepared. I mean, Louisiana did better. Let that sink in.

No on all counts.

Capacity markets also experience blackouts during extreme weather events (see 2020). Both energy and capacity markets have limitations bc nobody is built to withstand extreme events. The same temps on an objective basis are meaningless in different regions because regional systems are built for regional climates. That Texas could handle 40 straight days over 100F in the summer is meaningless to the fact that the DMV could not handle it bc Texas is built for Texas historical conditions as DMV is built to DMV historical conditions.

And yet, no mention that Texas has different climates within it, none of which (except for el paso) were prepared, or the differences between capacity and energy systems.

Texas experimented with energy only and gambled that there would never be abnormal events. It failed them mightily TWICE because energy only disincentivizes weatherization and excess capacity.

Certain regions were prepared. Obviously there were generators who continued to operate (we won’t see the after action reports for at least a month), but I know certain generators in north Texas (where this climate is more common) did continue to operate. Obviously they were winterized. . What’ll really be interesting is to see which generators went offline due to weather and which went offline due to fuel supply.

Capacity markets have also failed during times of extreme demand.

Where are you getting this idea that Texas doesn’t have excess capacity? Texas has about 84000 MW of installed capacity. Prior winter peak demand was about 65000MW in January if 2018 (January’s being important). Peak demand during this storm was just shy of 70,000 MW. The reserve margin exists in Texas, it just got knocked offline by the weather.

You're right. We do need to wait to see which generators went down. A lot of it seems to be cascading issues relating to nat gas pipeline pressure. Hopefully this time some of the aar recommendations will be implemented. Unfortunately the whole forzen windmills lie that started this thread politicized the situation before it had even unfolded.

Supposedly they had planned for 11GW of reserve during winter. This turned out to be not enough even had there been no failures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/texas...eeze/ar-BB1dOkgd?ocid=msedgntp One lady now faces a 6k power bill, and the disaster isn't over yet
Isn't this price-gouging?

I don't understand this. Aren't utility rates regulated? How does this work in Texas?

In Texas, they can pick their energy provider. The energy providers buy in bulk from the energy generators that run the power plants and wind mills then resell it to customers for a mark-up. Usually there's a set per kw/h price but it varies by provider. I used to live in Texas and still have family there. Griddy is a provider that, for a nominal fee, passes on the actual cost of the electricity to the customers. While most utilities would have that per kw/h allowable charge and would sort of even it out over the course of the year, Griddy literally exposes the customer to the full charge. These people picked Griddy in hopes that they'd be able to save a lot of money on power by using very little power during expensive times (generally the day during the summer) and more during the off times. Now there's more demand for electricity than generation and the per kw/h rate is high to entice electricity generators to provide additional power. So no there's no regulation and no this type of "utility" shouldn't actually be allowed. Sometimes regulation is there to protect you from yourself. Heat during a sub-zero winter event isn't the kind of thing that should be subject to market forces like a used car. Heat in the winter, A/C in extreme temperatures, and water (along with other basic utilities) are fundamental human rights and needed to live. As such, "Griddy" would not even be allowed to operate in most states. At this point, these people either have to shut off the power to their entire home from the breaker box or risk bankrupting themselves.

Hey, gambling on electric rates like it's a craps table is apparently freedom in Texas.

However, Griddy telling their customers to cancel their accounts as soon as a price spike hits? That's probably illegal. The fact that a price spike would someday hit is entirely forseeable, and they don't have the cash reserves to pay their suppliers.

Regrettably, nobody will go to jail. They will end up in bankruptcy. It's possible the consumers will still end up on the hook for the bills though, as the accounts receivable will get handed off to debt collectors. Or maybe Texas will do the very un-Texan thing and bail them out.

Apparently no other provider would take on new customers during the emergency so those customers were stuck with Griddy which is why they're being charged $1,000 a day for the pleasure of not freezing to death.

The company knows that the Feds will pay those bills

Will they? I mean, the state grid isn't regulated by the federal government. If the government pays those bills then they should be able to regulate Griddy.

Sometimes people make bad decisions and need to be bailed out of the consequences of their actions, when those consequences are too dire.

We don't need to stop bailing out people and companies. We need to tie bailouts to changes.

Massive market crash, and your bank can't survive? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Major hit to airline industries, who poured gains into shareholders' pocket instead of emergency reserve? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Giant failure of your state's attempt to run a power system on its own and by betting on emergencies not happening, so you don't need to carry reserves? Tie bailout to federal regulation.

I am really worried about the lives of Texans. This is ghastly, from the reports. They need help. Insofar as people were gambling and saying they were taking on the risk -- but not actually expecting to pay the price, if they lost that gamble -- something needs to be done so that this does not happen again.

Eh, the state can bail them out. They don't want the feds involved in their power system, so the feds shouldn't insert themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/texas...eeze/ar-BB1dOkgd?ocid=msedgntp One lady now faces a 6k power bill, and the disaster isn't over yet
Isn't this price-gouging?

I don't understand this. Aren't utility rates regulated? How does this work in Texas?

In Texas, they can pick their energy provider. The energy providers buy in bulk from the energy generators that run the power plants and wind mills then resell it to customers for a mark-up. Usually there's a set per kw/h price but it varies by provider. I used to live in Texas and still have family there. Griddy is a provider that, for a nominal fee, passes on the actual cost of the electricity to the customers. While most utilities would have that per kw/h allowable charge and would sort of even it out over the course of the year, Griddy literally exposes the customer to the full charge. These people picked Griddy in hopes that they'd be able to save a lot of money on power by using very little power during expensive times (generally the day during the summer) and more during the off times. Now there's more demand for electricity than generation and the per kw/h rate is high to entice electricity generators to provide additional power. So no there's no regulation and no this type of "utility" shouldn't actually be allowed. Sometimes regulation is there to protect you from yourself. Heat during a sub-zero winter event isn't the kind of thing that should be subject to market forces like a used car. Heat in the winter, A/C in extreme temperatures, and water (along with other basic utilities) are fundamental human rights and needed to live. As such, "Griddy" would not even be allowed to operate in most states. At this point, these people either have to shut off the power to their entire home from the breaker box or risk bankrupting themselves.

But if they shut off the power and the pipes freeze - they’re bankrupt anyway from the repair costs of exploding ceilings?

shouldn't insurance pay for most of the water damage? Of course rates will then jack up...

[Anonymous]

Doesn't Texas have laws against price hikes like this in a disaster?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/texas...eeze/ar-BB1dOkgd?ocid=msedgntp One lady now faces a 6k power bill, and the disaster isn't over yet
Isn't this price-gouging?

I don't understand this. Aren't utility rates regulated? How does this work in Texas?

In Texas, they can pick their energy provider. The energy providers buy in bulk from the energy generators that run the power plants and wind mills then resell it to customers for a mark-up. Usually there's a set per kw/h price but it varies by provider. I used to live in Texas and still have family there. Griddy is a provider that, for a nominal fee, passes on the actual cost of the electricity to the customers. While most utilities would have that per kw/h allowable charge and would sort of even it out over the course of the year, Griddy literally exposes the customer to the full charge. These people picked Griddy in hopes that they'd be able to save a lot of money on power by using very little power during expensive times (generally the day during the summer) and more during the off times. Now there's more demand for electricity than generation and the per kw/h rate is high to entice electricity generators to provide additional power. So no there's no regulation and no this type of "utility" shouldn't actually be allowed. Sometimes regulation is there to protect you from yourself. Heat during a sub-zero winter event isn't the kind of thing that should be subject to market forces like a used car. Heat in the winter, A/C in extreme temperatures, and water (along with other basic utilities) are fundamental human rights and needed to live. As such, "Griddy" would not even be allowed to operate in most states. At this point, these people either have to shut off the power to their entire home from the breaker box or risk bankrupting themselves.

Hey, gambling on electric rates like it's a craps table is apparently freedom in Texas.

However, Griddy telling their customers to cancel their accounts as soon as a price spike hits? That's probably illegal. The fact that a price spike would someday hit is entirely forseeable, and they don't have the cash reserves to pay their suppliers.

Regrettably, nobody will go to jail. They will end up in bankruptcy. It's possible the consumers will still end up on the hook for the bills though, as the accounts receivable will get handed off to debt collectors. Or maybe Texas will do the very un-Texan thing and bail them out.

Apparently no other provider would take on new customers during the emergency so those customers were stuck with Griddy which is why they're being charged $1,000 a day for the pleasure of not freezing to death.

The company knows that the Feds will pay those bills

Will they? I mean, the state grid isn't regulated by the federal government. If the government pays those bills then they should be able to regulate Griddy.

Sometimes people make bad decisions and need to be bailed out of the consequences of their actions, when those consequences are too dire.

We don't need to stop bailing out people and companies. We need to tie bailouts to changes.

Massive market crash, and your bank can't survive? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Major hit to airline industries, who poured gains into shareholders' pocket instead of emergency reserve? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Giant failure of your state's attempt to run a power system on its own and by betting on emergencies not happening, so you don't need to carry reserves? Tie bailout to federal regulation.

I am really worried about the lives of Texans. This is ghastly, from the reports. They need help. Insofar as people were gambling and saying they were taking on the risk -- but not actually expecting to pay the price, if they lost that gamble -- something needs to be done so that this does not happen again.

Eh, the state can bail them out. They don't want the feds involved in their power system, so the feds shouldn't insert themselves.

I am fine with whomever bailing them out. If their elected representatives ask for federal help, it should come with federal oversight (for now and the future).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/texas...eeze/ar-BB1dOkgd?ocid=msedgntp One lady now faces a 6k power bill, and the disaster isn't over yet
Isn't this price-gouging?

I don't understand this. Aren't utility rates regulated? How does this work in Texas?

In Texas, they can pick their energy provider. The energy providers buy in bulk from the energy generators that run the power plants and wind mills then resell it to customers for a mark-up. Usually there's a set per kw/h price but it varies by provider. I used to live in Texas and still have family there. Griddy is a provider that, for a nominal fee, passes on the actual cost of the electricity to the customers. While most utilities would have that per kw/h allowable charge and would sort of even it out over the course of the year, Griddy literally exposes the customer to the full charge. These people picked Griddy in hopes that they'd be able to save a lot of money on power by using very little power during expensive times (generally the day during the summer) and more during the off times. Now there's more demand for electricity than generation and the per kw/h rate is high to entice electricity generators to provide additional power. So no there's no regulation and no this type of "utility" shouldn't actually be allowed. Sometimes regulation is there to protect you from yourself. Heat during a sub-zero winter event isn't the kind of thing that should be subject to market forces like a used car. Heat in the winter, A/C in extreme temperatures, and water (along with other basic utilities) are fundamental human rights and needed to live. As such, "Griddy" would not even be allowed to operate in most states. At this point, these people either have to shut off the power to their entire home from the breaker box or risk bankrupting themselves.

Hey, gambling on electric rates like it's a craps table is apparently freedom in Texas.

However, Griddy telling their customers to cancel their accounts as soon as a price spike hits? That's probably illegal. The fact that a price spike would someday hit is entirely forseeable, and they don't have the cash reserves to pay their suppliers.

Regrettably, nobody will go to jail. They will end up in bankruptcy. It's possible the consumers will still end up on the hook for the bills though, as the accounts receivable will get handed off to debt collectors. Or maybe Texas will do the very un-Texan thing and bail them out.

Apparently no other provider would take on new customers during the emergency so those customers were stuck with Griddy which is why they're being charged $1,000 a day for the pleasure of not freezing to death.

The company knows that the Feds will pay those bills

Will they? I mean, the state grid isn't regulated by the federal government. If the government pays those bills then they should be able to regulate Griddy.

Sometimes people make bad decisions and need to be bailed out of the consequences of their actions, when those consequences are too dire.

We don't need to stop bailing out people and companies. We need to tie bailouts to changes.

Massive market crash, and your bank can't survive? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Major hit to airline industries, who poured gains into shareholders' pocket instead of emergency reserve? Tie bailout to increased federal regulation.
Giant failure of your state's attempt to run a power system on its own and by betting on emergencies not happening, so you don't need to carry reserves? Tie bailout to federal regulation.

I am really worried about the lives of Texans. This is ghastly, from the reports. They need help. Insofar as people were gambling and saying they were taking on the risk -- but not actually expecting to pay the price, if they lost that gamble -- something needs to be done so that this does not happen again.

This is what I said above, too. Sure, let’s bail them out again (nothing cuter than a passel of secessionists with their hands out, again) but let’s make sure that money comes with some serious strings attached. Regulatory strings.

[Anonymous]

Damn straight, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't Texas have laws against price hikes like this in a disaster?

Wouldn't that be.....regulation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if this is going to be a tipping point to get rid of some of the Republican leadership in Texas unfortunately memories are short when it comes to elections

just remember people this is the price you pay for low taxes and lack of regulation.

Elections are next year - hopefully memories aren’t that short.

The people in TX surely will remember the frozen windmills.

Yes, we've already established that the majority of Texans are low-information types. They will believe whatever they want to believe, regardless of the truth. Stick it to the libs!

[Anonymous]

FERC regs require winterization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Doesn't Texas have laws against price hikes like this in a disaster?

Wouldn't that be.....regulation?

"Nope. Don't need no law's", says Texas. Dem for da Libs!

[Anonymous]

Jiminy Crickets this was a complete mess. They shut down power to the natgas fields when they did the blackouts. In other words the generators cut off their source of fuel in order to reduce demand which then created a supply problem.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-20/a-giant-flaw-in-texas-blackouts-it-cut-power-to-gas-supplies?srnd=premium