Playing time expectations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years and years of travel with multiple kids, and one thing I've learned is that it's a balance. Good clubs know how to nurture and develop players, and at age 9, to inspire them to become better. The anticipation of being able to play and put what they work on during the week into the game is an important part of the experience. Not every kid played at the same level, but all played where they could actually play. It made them better players and better teammates. They learned so much from being able to get on the field.

I agree with this entirely. But apparently if I recommend that people have a dialog with their coach about how their kid can improve what I am really saying is kids should play only ten minutes a game and be happy about it.

I've never found those conversations to be helpful, and they are very often punitive, no matter how it is approached. What I have taught them is to ask the coach themselves and take responsibility for that and to listen to the evaluations carefully. If they have a bad experience one year, it's a life lesson. Work hard, learn what you can and then after the commitment is over, we find somewhere else to play. If it's not a good fit, that's ok. But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't.

And I have found the conversations to be helpful.

Everything you say is fine but I strongly discourage leaving mid season for anything less than a toxic and abusive atmosphere. The industry standard for travel soccer playing time is 50%, not equal.

The OP will not get a refund, at best just simply released and no further billing. But a refund is not going to happen. What I would do is the following:
1. Talk to current coach. See if a development plan can be put together.
2. Regardless of coaches conversation reach out to other clubs and try and attend some practices.
3. Stay with team through spring while working with other clubs. If things improve at the main club re-evaluate. If they do not then leave at the end of the season for one of the clubs you tried and liked best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years and years of travel with multiple kids, and one thing I've learned is that it's a balance. Good clubs know how to nurture and develop players, and at age 9, to inspire them to become better. The anticipation of being able to play and put what they work on during the week into the game is an important part of the experience. Not every kid played at the same level, but all played where they could actually play. It made them better players and better teammates. They learned so much from being able to get on the field.

I agree with this entirely. But apparently if I recommend that people have a dialog with their coach about how their kid can improve what I am really saying is kids should play only ten minutes a game and be happy about it.

I've never found those conversations to be helpful, and they are very often punitive, no matter how it is approached. What I have taught them is to ask the coach themselves and take responsibility for that and to listen to the evaluations carefully. If they have a bad experience one year, it's a life lesson. Work hard, learn what you can and then after the commitment is over, we find somewhere else to play. If it's not a good fit, that's ok. But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't.

And I have found the conversations to be helpful.

Everything you say is fine but I strongly discourage leaving mid season for anything less than a toxic and abusive atmosphere. The industry standard for travel soccer playing time is 50%, not equal.

The OP will not get a refund, at best just simply released and no further billing. But a refund is not going to happen. What I would do is the following:
1. Talk to current coach. See if a development plan can be put together.
2. Regardless of coaches conversation reach out to other clubs and try and attend some practices.
3. Stay with team through spring while working with other clubs. If things improve at the main club re-evaluate. If they do not then leave at the end of the season for one of the clubs you tried and liked best.

Where are you getting that from? I never ever said that. I said the opposite: I indicated staying the full year and said that's what I did with my own kids. That it was taken as a life lesson.

Each family has to weigh the risks for themselves. Talking to a coach may make it better and could make it worse. It's up to each family to decide if they think it's worth the risk. One thing I saw, not to my kid, but another on the team. Every time the dad spoke up, the next practice the coach would have the kid do a drill with the whole team watching and then he'd pick him apart. The first time, the parents thought it was fluke, odd thing. But by the third time, they got the message. The coach was not to be spoken to. And I know the dad. He's a very calm rational guy. He simply asked some questions. But his kid got punished.

The reality is not every coach will get it right, any more than every teach or boss. It happens. These guys are not saints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years and years of travel with multiple kids, and one thing I've learned is that it's a balance. Good clubs know how to nurture and develop players, and at age 9, to inspire them to become better. The anticipation of being able to play and put what they work on during the week into the game is an important part of the experience. Not every kid played at the same level, but all played where they could actually play. It made them better players and better teammates. They learned so much from being able to get on the field.

I agree with this entirely. But apparently if I recommend that people have a dialog with their coach about how their kid can improve what I am really saying is kids should play only ten minutes a game and be happy about it.

I've never found those conversations to be helpful, and they are very often punitive, no matter how it is approached. What I have taught them is to ask the coach themselves and take responsibility for that and to listen to the evaluations carefully. If they have a bad experience one year, it's a life lesson. Work hard, learn what you can and then after the commitment is over, we find somewhere else to play. If it's not a good fit, that's ok. But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't.

And I have found the conversations to be helpful.

Everything you say is fine but I strongly discourage leaving mid season for anything less than a toxic and abusive atmosphere. The industry standard for travel soccer playing time is 50%, not equal.

The OP will not get a refund, at best just simply released and no further billing. But a refund is not going to happen. What I would do is the following:
1. Talk to current coach. See if a development plan can be put together.
2. Regardless of coaches conversation reach out to other clubs and try and attend some practices.
3. Stay with team through spring while working with other clubs. If things improve at the main club re-evaluate. If they do not then leave at the end of the season for one of the clubs you tried and liked best.

Where are you getting that from? I never ever said that. I said the opposite: I indicated staying the full year and said that's what I did with my own kids. That it was taken as a life lesson.


Each family has to weigh the risks for themselves. Talking to a coach may make it better and could make it worse. It's up to each family to decide if they think it's worth the risk. One thing I saw, not to my kid, but another on the team. Every time the dad spoke up, the next practice the coach would have the kid do a drill with the whole team watching and then he'd pick him apart. The first time, the parents thought it was fluke, odd thing. But by the third time, they got the message. The coach was not to be spoken to. And I know the dad. He's a very calm rational guy. He simply asked some questions. But his kid got punished.

The reality is not every coach will get it right, any more than every teach or boss. It happens. These guys are not saints.

Where are you getting that from? I never ever said that. I said the opposite: I indicated staying the full year and said that's what I did with my own kids. That it was taken as a life lesson.

But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't

What would a refund be implying if not a mid season change?

[Anonymous]

Here's why you don't wait for a year. At age 9, a year is 10% of the kid's entire life to that time. You are spending an decent amount of money, and your kid is expending a significant amount of time and effort on it. Make it a worth while experience for the kid and for your family.

Every decent club already knows what our poster seems to not get - that kids change over time. Clubs want to keep customers happy AND they want kids to develop properly. Winning a game a age 9 or 10 does not matter at all. Heck, it does not even matter to the kids an hour later. What matters is how kids are developing and learning, and they do not do that sitting on the bench during games.

Sure -- every player should be sitting on the bench some. That's part of being on a team where there are more players than on-field positions. The reality is that you do not know where kids will end up physically and technically at 18 when they are 9. That's why clubs work to make things equal at 9 and 10. That tiny kid at 13 might be over six feet at 18. That big fast kid on the u14s might be done growing, and will slow down a step or two by 17.

So, at 9 and 10 and really all the way up -- you play everyone as much as possible every game. That's the best way to keep learning and that's what everyone is paying for. Don't think Kid X is good enough to do that? Don't put Kid X on the team and don't take his parents money. Easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years and years of travel with multiple kids, and one thing I've learned is that it's a balance. Good clubs know how to nurture and develop players, and at age 9, to inspire them to become better. The anticipation of being able to play and put what they work on during the week into the game is an important part of the experience. Not every kid played at the same level, but all played where they could actually play. It made them better players and better teammates. They learned so much from being able to get on the field.

I agree with this entirely. But apparently if I recommend that people have a dialog with their coach about how their kid can improve what I am really saying is kids should play only ten minutes a game and be happy about it.

I've never found those conversations to be helpful, and they are very often punitive, no matter how it is approached. What I have taught them is to ask the coach themselves and take responsibility for that and to listen to the evaluations carefully. If they have a bad experience one year, it's a life lesson. Work hard, learn what you can and then after the commitment is over, we find somewhere else to play. If it's not a good fit, that's ok. But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't.

And I have found the conversations to be helpful.

Everything you say is fine but I strongly discourage leaving mid season for anything less than a toxic and abusive atmosphere. The industry standard for travel soccer playing time is 50%, not equal.

The OP will not get a refund, at best just simply released and no further billing. But a refund is not going to happen. What I would do is the following:
1. Talk to current coach. See if a development plan can be put together.
2. Regardless of coaches conversation reach out to other clubs and try and attend some practices.
3. Stay with team through spring while working with other clubs. If things improve at the main club re-evaluate. If they do not then leave at the end of the season for one of the clubs you tried and liked best.

Where are you getting that from? I never ever said that. I said the opposite: I indicated staying the full year and said that's what I did with my own kids. That it was taken as a life lesson.


Each family has to weigh the risks for themselves. Talking to a coach may make it better and could make it worse. It's up to each family to decide if they think it's worth the risk. One thing I saw, not to my kid, but another on the team. Every time the dad spoke up, the next practice the coach would have the kid do a drill with the whole team watching and then he'd pick him apart. The first time, the parents thought it was fluke, odd thing. But by the third time, they got the message. The coach was not to be spoken to. And I know the dad. He's a very calm rational guy. He simply asked some questions. But his kid got punished.

The reality is not every coach will get it right, any more than every teach or boss. It happens. These guys are not saints.

Where are you getting that from? I never ever said that. I said the opposite: I indicated staying the full year and said that's what I did with my own kids. That it was taken as a life lesson.

But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't

What would a refund be implying if not a mid season change?

Sure, I think that what that club did was admirable. They made a mistake in picking that child up, the parents reached out to the club, and they worked out a solution that did indeed involve releasing the child. I think that is commendable. That doesn't mean I think that everyone could or should do that, but that is an example of a positive experience of communicating with the club, just as what I mentioned is an example of the total opposite. You have to read it in context. But I still said in multiple posts about players leaving at the end of the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's why you don't wait for a year. At age 9, a year is 10% of the kid's entire life to that time. You are spending an decent amount of money, and your kid is expending a significant amount of time and effort on it. Make it a worth while experience for the kid and for your family.

Every decent club already knows what our poster seems to not get - that kids change over time. Clubs want to keep customers happy AND they want kids to develop properly. Winning a game a age 9 or 10 does not matter at all. Heck, it does not even matter to the kids an hour later. What matters is how kids are developing and learning, and they do not do that sitting on the bench during games.

Sure -- every player should be sitting on the bench some. That's part of being on a team where there are more players than on-field positions. The reality is that you do not know where kids will end up physically and technically at 18 when they are 9. That's why clubs work to make things equal at 9 and 10. That tiny kid at 13 might be over six feet at 18. That big fast kid on the u14s might be done growing, and will slow down a step or two by 17.

So, at 9 and 10 and really all the way up -- you play everyone as much as possible every game. That's the best way to keep learning and that's what everyone is paying for. Don't think Kid X is good enough to do that? Don't put Kid X on the team and don't take his parents money. Easy.

Equal playing time is not a goal of travel soccer. Training is where kids play 90% of their soccer. A game on Sunday and the number of touches at 9 years old are just not as important to development as training. 5 extra minutes per game will not yield the developmental outcome you think it will compared to practice.

Again, if just playing games, equal minutes is the most important part of development then why are you not playing in rec?

The kid is 9 and it is December. You are all over reacting to the situation especially the laughable "At age 9, a year is 10% of the kid's entire life to that time." line.

3 practices a week plus an hour for a game including for 12 weeks is about 66 hours. You can round up to 70 or 75 hours.

Your 9 year old has been alive for nearly 80,000 hours which means that this fall season has accounted for about .000825% of the hours that your child has been alive. Believe me, you are over reacting to the lost 60 minutes of game time for the fall season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Years and years of travel with multiple kids, and one thing I've learned is that it's a balance. Good clubs know how to nurture and develop players, and at age 9, to inspire them to become better. The anticipation of being able to play and put what they work on during the week into the game is an important part of the experience. Not every kid played at the same level, but all played where they could actually play. It made them better players and better teammates. They learned so much from being able to get on the field.

I agree with this entirely. But apparently if I recommend that people have a dialog with their coach about how their kid can improve what I am really saying is kids should play only ten minutes a game and be happy about it.

I've never found those conversations to be helpful, and they are very often punitive, no matter how it is approached. What I have taught them is to ask the coach themselves and take responsibility for that and to listen to the evaluations carefully. If they have a bad experience one year, it's a life lesson. Work hard, learn what you can and then after the commitment is over, we find somewhere else to play. If it's not a good fit, that's ok. But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't.

And I have found the conversations to be helpful.

Everything you say is fine but I strongly discourage leaving mid season for anything less than a toxic and abusive atmosphere. The industry standard for travel soccer playing time is 50%, not equal.

The OP will not get a refund, at best just simply released and no further billing. But a refund is not going to happen. What I would do is the following:
1. Talk to current coach. See if a development plan can be put together.
2. Regardless of coaches conversation reach out to other clubs and try and attend some practices.
3. Stay with team through spring while working with other clubs. If things improve at the main club re-evaluate. If they do not then leave at the end of the season for one of the clubs you tried and liked best.

Where are you getting that from? I never ever said that. I said the opposite: I indicated staying the full year and said that's what I did with my own kids. That it was taken as a life lesson.


Each family has to weigh the risks for themselves. Talking to a coach may make it better and could make it worse. It's up to each family to decide if they think it's worth the risk. One thing I saw, not to my kid, but another on the team. Every time the dad spoke up, the next practice the coach would have the kid do a drill with the whole team watching and then he'd pick him apart. The first time, the parents thought it was fluke, odd thing. But by the third time, they got the message. The coach was not to be spoken to. And I know the dad. He's a very calm rational guy. He simply asked some questions. But his kid got punished.

The reality is not every coach will get it right, any more than every teach or boss. It happens. These guys are not saints.

Where are you getting that from? I never ever said that. I said the opposite: I indicated staying the full year and said that's what I did with my own kids. That it was taken as a life lesson.

But if someone can get their DC released and get that refund, that's awesome. That club deserves kudos for doing the right thing when most clubs wouldn't

What would a refund be implying if not a mid season change?

Sure, I think that what that club did was admirable. They made a mistake in picking that child up, the parents reached out to the club, and they worked out a solution that did indeed involve releasing the child. I think that is commendable. That doesn't mean I think that everyone could or should do that, but that is an example of a positive experience of communicating with the club, just as what I mentioned is an example of the total opposite. You have to read it in context. But I still said in multiple posts about players leaving at the end of the year.

Got it. That was about 42 pages ago LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's why you don't wait for a year. At age 9, a year is 10% of the kid's entire life to that time. You are spending an decent amount of money, and your kid is expending a significant amount of time and effort on it. Make it a worth while experience for the kid and for your family.

Every decent club already knows what our poster seems to not get - that kids change over time. Clubs want to keep customers happy AND they want kids to develop properly. Winning a game a age 9 or 10 does not matter at all. Heck, it does not even matter to the kids an hour later. What matters is how kids are developing and learning, and they do not do that sitting on the bench during games.

Sure -- every player should be sitting on the bench some. That's part of being on a team where there are more players than on-field positions. The reality is that you do not know where kids will end up physically and technically at 18 when they are 9. That's why clubs work to make things equal at 9 and 10. That tiny kid at 13 might be over six feet at 18. That big fast kid on the u14s might be done growing, and will slow down a step or two by 17.

So, at 9 and 10 and really all the way up -- you play everyone as much as possible every game. That's the best way to keep learning and that's what everyone is paying for. Don't think Kid X is good enough to do that? Don't put Kid X on the team and don't take his parents money. Easy.

I guess that can only change if parents stop accepting anything else as normal. Instead, parents themselves think it's ok to bench 9 year olds because they may "disrupt" the flow of the game, which if you have ever watched any level of 9 year olds play, sounds as ridiculous as it is. All those kids are still figuring out what that even means, and almost all struggle with what movement of the ball even means. Many are not rewarded for good passing either. Ball hogs and players who always try to hold onto the ball rather than share it are perceived as being more impactful, even if what they actually do with it is often meaningless and counterproductive.

[Anonymous]

Ok so a lot of people have posted the names of clubs with a rule that kids under U9-U12 get to play at least 50% during league play. So which travel clubs adhere to a rule of giving equal play time to all players?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so a lot of people have posted the names of clubs with a rule that kids under U9-U12 get to play at least 50% during league play. So which travel clubs adhere to a rule of giving equal play time to all players?

The whole point of the posts about playing time was to demonstrate the fact that travel soccer clubs do not make equal playing time a policy. Playing time is not a entitlement.

Talk with your prospective coach and parents on the team about the playing time distribution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so a lot of people have posted the names of clubs with a rule that kids under U9-U12 get to play at least 50% during league play. So which travel clubs adhere to a rule of giving equal play time to all players?

Most don't post an actual playing time amount. I think clubs don't like to have it in writing, but I wouldn't say the norm is to bench 9 year olds. Some clubs are better at development than others and the best answer is to take this all as a cautionary tale and have good conversations before clicking "accept" . That won't give you necessarily a guarantee, but it will increase the odds. And if it doesn't work out, don't feel obliged to yet another year of it. Find another place for your DC to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok so a lot of people have posted the names of clubs with a rule that kids under U9-U12 get to play at least 50% during league play. So which travel clubs adhere to a rule of giving equal play time to all players?

I would also add that the megalist wasn't actually verified as those clubs' practice. Someone was trying to make a point that could just as easily be a false assumption.

[Anonymous]

Believe me, you are over reacting to the lost 60 minutes of game time for the fall season.

____________________________/

Then why support at all giving that time to some other kid(s)? How is that benefiting the player sitting on the bench? If sitting on the bench is "good" in some way shouldn't the kids getting that extra playing time benefit from the good of sitting on the bench more?


See -- there is no justification for limiting playing time of a u9 kid who does everything that the team asks of him/her. Is the kid practicing hard? Yes. Is the kid showing up on time for games and practices? Yes. Does the kid have a good attitude and work will with teammates? Yes. But, even with all that the kid is not getting the same playing time teammates are getting. Sorry. That's very bad. It would be bad coaching particularly at u9. Frankly, it would be bad coaching at u17 too, but at u9 coaches should be fired for that stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Believe me, you are over reacting to the lost 60 minutes of game time for the fall season.

____________________________/

Then why support at all giving that time to some other kid(s)? How is that benefiting the player sitting on the bench? If sitting on the bench is "good" in some way shouldn't the kids getting that extra playing time benefit from the good of sitting on the bench more?


See -- there is no justification for limiting playing time of a u9 kid who does everything that the team asks of him/her. Is the kid practicing hard? Yes. Is the kid showing up on time for games and practices? Yes. Does the kid have a good attitude and work will with teammates? Yes. But, even with all that the kid is not getting the same playing time teammates are getting. Sorry. That's very bad. It would be bad coaching particularly at u9. Frankly, it would be bad coaching at u17 too, but at u9 coaches should be fired for that stuff.

That is definitely the part I don't get. Someone can sit there and argue game time doesn't matter and at the same time justify loading up those game minutes with the same players over and over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok so a lot of people have posted the names of clubs with a rule that kids under U9-U12 get to play at least 50% during league play. So which travel clubs adhere to a rule of giving equal play time to all players?

I would also add that the megalist wasn't actually verified as those clubs' practice. Someone was trying to make a point that could just as easily be a false assumption.

You can verify the policy by clicking the provided link and read the web page or pdf for yourself.