Earning Well but Drowning in Debt...how to dig out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is competing for resources with highly educated, driven people in this area who have made either smarter or tougher choices. She does not understand the competitive environment in which she operates. Or she refuses to acknowledge it.

yup

Um, you can rack up debt and live above your means anywhere can't you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My bet is that OP went out and bought all 3 kids brand new boots, snow pants, jackets, mittens, hats, new sleds, new shovels just their size and blew $250 because it's snowing and the kids wanted to go outside for 15 minutes

Impossible to buy all of the above for 3 kids for $250.

Agreed, and for the record, my two have been outside for hours and hours. I have the dryer running non stop.not od wet into dry and repeat.

I'm certainly not going to hate on patents who want to warmly clothe their children.

You can warmly clothe your child for much less. I got snow pants for $5 and boots for $3 at a consignment sale. I think that was pp's point.

Get those bargains at a consignment sale/thrift store requires:
1) Being there when the store's open (they often close @ 5)
2) Happening to see something in your kids' sizes -- you won't go 3-for-3, but maybe 1-for-3 and 2-for-3. So then there's 2-3 trips to different stores
3) Beating out Everyone Else for the stuff in your desired sizes and that isn't horribly inappropriate for whatever reason (e.g. something from 1985).

Maybe doable for a SAHM with a preschooler or whose kids are all in school. But a woman working 40+ hours a week is supposed to do her consignment/thrift shopping when, exactly? I hardly think most dual-income families want to spend their weekends combing over thrift stores.

This is something where the time spent looking for bargains can really add up.

Exactly! There is no way in hell I'm going to take the time to drive out of my way and browse through a giant (or tiny but jam packed) store on the off chance I might find a pair of boots in the correct size that are not too worn out.

Not to mention that a lot of second hand things (either at consignment or yard sales) are higher-end things that I would not have purchased in the first place and the price is higher (much higher sometimes) than what I can get at The Children's Place, especially with coupons and free shipping.

Well you've already dismissed the idea so not sure what else I can say. I was tuned in to a big consignment sale that happens a few times a year in my area. Starts after work during a weekday so no problem getting there. I got some really great things and it certainly didn't involve the level of commitment your describing. It involved driving there after work two or three times a year.
I wish someone had told me how easy it was earlier when I was paying full price for kid clothes and gear. It has saved me tons in the early childhood years.
I used to think like you about the time and effort but if you focus on one sale or stopping into a consignment store now and then you might be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Consignment or not-consignment, OP is not going to save a ton of money by buying cheap clothes. She has large amounts of mortgage expenses, car payments, daycare, and CC debt. That's what she needs to chip away at.

-I'd make a large payment from your emergency fund.
-See if you can get a HELOC from your equity.
-And then pay off your CC and car payments asap.
-Remove all EC activities except the first one's music lessons
-See if a nanny might work out better than daycare/summer camps.

And as for all the discussions about clothes, WHY??? Exercise by running outside or use videos from youtube or the library - for free. No gym membership. Then you will maintain your weight and won't need to buy so many clothes. Adults do not need to replace their clothes very often, not until its falling apart. The younger kids can get hand me downs if they are the same gender as the oldest. Then ask for hand me downs from neighbors/cousins/etc for everything else. You should be buying underwear, socks, and shoes new, that is all, until you are out of this hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Consignment or not-consignment, OP is not going to save a ton of money by buying cheap clothes. She has large amounts of mortgage expenses, car payments, daycare, and CC debt. That's what she needs to chip away at.

-I'd make a large payment from your emergency fund.
-See if you can get a HELOC from your equity.
-And then pay off your CC and car payments asap.
-Remove all EC activities except the first one's music lessons
-See if a nanny might work out better than daycare/summer camps.

And as for all the discussions about clothes, WHY??? Exercise by running outside or use videos from youtube or the library - for free. No gym membership. Then you will maintain your weight and won't need to buy so many clothes. Adults do not need to replace their clothes very often, not until its falling apart. The younger kids can get hand me downs if they are the same gender as the oldest. Then ask for hand me downs from neighbors/cousins/etc for everything else. You should be buying underwear, socks, and shoes new, that is all, until you are out of this hole.

+1 You should not be buying clothes for adults when you are trying to dig out of this debt hole. For inspiration read: http://www.frugalwoods.com/2015/01/05/what-a-year-without-clothes-did-for-me/

[Anonymous]

400k poster here who tried the consignment route because I'm a cheap bitch. There is NOTHING out there for boys over 7yrs old. Stuff gets worn way too hard. NOTHING. Beieve me I tried. One day I went to FIVE consignment or thrift stores simply looking for pants for my 9yr old. It makes sense because I actually normally have to throw away my boys clothes after they wear them out due to holes. Not sure why I thought I'd find clothes for my 9yr old boy ad if other families don't experience this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:400k poster here who tried the consignment route because I'm a cheap bitch. There is NOTHING out there for boys over 7yrs old. Stuff gets worn way too hard. NOTHING. Beieve me I tried. One day I went to FIVE consignment or thrift stores simply looking for pants for my 9yr old. It makes sense because I actually normally have to throw away my boys clothes after they wear them out due to holes. Not sure why I thought I'd find clothes for my 9yr old boy ad if other families don't experience this.

I agree, my kids mostly wore consignment clothes from babyhood - preschool but once were were past K (both boy and girl) I had to switch to buying new (on sale) at Old Navy, Target, Lands End.

The consignment route doesn't take that much time if you do it in big batches -- I shopped twice a year at Dani's Duds (http://www.danisduds.com/) plus our preschool's annual kid stuff sale. Great selection and prices and I rarely had to buy additional clothing. Mainly an issue if I misjudged sizes or one of the kids grew faster than anticipated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Consignment or not-consignment, OP is not going to save a ton of money by buying cheap clothes. She has large amounts of mortgage expenses, car payments, daycare, and CC debt. That's what she needs to chip away at.

-I'd make a large payment from your emergency fund.
-See if you can get a HELOC from your equity.
-And then pay off your CC and car payments asap.
-Remove all EC activities except the first one's music lessons
-See if a nanny might work out better than daycare/summer camps.

And as for all the discussions about clothes, WHY??? Exercise by running outside or use videos from youtube or the library - for free. No gym membership. Then you will maintain your weight and won't need to buy so many clothes. Adults do not need to replace their clothes very often, not until its falling apart. The younger kids can get hand me downs if they are the same gender as the oldest. Then ask for hand me downs from neighbors/cousins/etc for everything else. You should be buying underwear, socks, and shoes new, that is all, until you are out of this hole.

Amen. Consignment shopping and packing lunches are lifestyle changes that will prevent OP from getting into this mess again. But in order to first get out of this mess she's going to need to make some major changes in order to reduce her largest expenses which are housing, transportation and childcare. I still can't fathom being a fed and not using the free metro card!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My bet is that OP went out and bought all 3 kids brand new boots, snow pants, jackets, mittens, hats, new sleds, new shovels just their size and blew $250 because it's snowing and the kids wanted to go outside for 15 minutes

Impossible to buy all of the above for 3 kids for $250.

Agreed, and for the record, my two have been outside for hours and hours. I have the dryer running non stop.not od wet into dry and repeat.

I'm certainly not going to hate on patents who want to warmly clothe their children.

You can warmly clothe your child for much less. I got snow pants for $5 and boots for $3 at a consignment sale. I think that was pp's point.

Get those bargains at a consignment sale/thrift store requires:
1) Being there when the store's open (they often close @ 5)
2) Happening to see something in your kids' sizes -- you won't go 3-for-3, but maybe 1-for-3 and 2-for-3. So then there's 2-3 trips to different stores
3) Beating out Everyone Else for the stuff in your desired sizes and that isn't horribly inappropriate for whatever reason (e.g. something from 1985).

Maybe doable for a SAHM with a preschooler or whose kids are all in school. But a woman working 40+ hours a week is supposed to do her consignment/thrift shopping when, exactly? I hardly think most dual-income families want to spend their weekends combing over thrift stores.

This is something where the time spent looking for bargains can really add up.

Wait, are you kidding? I wrote that. I'm also part of a dual Fed family with same HHI as OP.
People do this. But keep justifying every expense...

Wow, so you get everything in one fell swoop? You're lucky and/or just an all-around better person than I am (not OP).

Now the poster that mentioned those giant consignment sales held over 1-2 weekends might be onto something -- you're more likely to find something there.

Maybe if you found a college kid to do the thrift store shopping and paid them $30-$40, if you can save $200+, scouring the thrift stores might be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Our house is extremely modest and too small for a family of 5" -- yet it's worth $800K.

I don't understand this. How can something be "extremely modest" and cost $800K? We are a family of 5 living in a 3BR condo in Columbia Heights like this one, on the market for $325k, and we're doing ok.
https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1429-Girard-St-NW-20009/unit-305/home/96098202

I can't wrap my head around the numbers the OP is saying. Holy moly, you earn more than three times what we do and you burn through SO MUCH every month.

You pay a similar HOA?

Columbia Heights? When you factor in private school costs and out-of-state university tuition, you are paying WAY more than OP in housing/education (because housing is really a proxy for school quality).

Maybe you are in a good charter, but basically that means you won a lottery, just like OP could play the powerball.

We don't send our kids to private schools. We do public and charters. It took us 3 years to get into a charter we liked. It can be done. Just takes time.

[Anonymous]

I will also say if you can spend 1-2 Saturday mornings a year doing at least *some* shopping at consignment/thrift stores, maybe you only get 50-60% of your list but you at least save on that part of the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:400k poster here who tried the consignment route because I'm a cheap bitch. There is NOTHING out there for boys over 7yrs old. Stuff gets worn way too hard. NOTHING. Beieve me I tried. One day I went to FIVE consignment or thrift stores simply looking for pants for my 9yr old. It makes sense because I actually normally have to throw away my boys clothes after they wear them out due to holes. Not sure why I thought I'd find clothes for my 9yr old boy ad if other families don't experience this.

Not completely true. You absolutely can get snow boots, snow pants, winter coats and jackets. Hats, mittens gloves. You can get shorts. Dress shirts, dress pants, dress shoes. Ties.

Casual pants and tops there is usually not a great selection.

I have two boys and my oldest wore the knees out of most of his pants before he could pass them down.

[Anonymous]

Craigslist might be a good source if the seller is near you but a little more expensive than thrift stores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH and I earn decent money (not a huge amount by DC standards, but comfortable) $285k HHI. But we are so drowning in debt, we don't know how or where to begin to dig out. $200k in student loans. $50k in credit card debt (a lot from grad school and also while I was on maternity LWOP). We basically live check to check because of mortgage payments, student loan payments, credit card payments, and daycare expenses for two kids. We have very little savings, despite trying to participate in our respective 401(k) and federal tsp.

How do we start to tackle this? Do we see a credit or debt counselor? I have no idea how to find someone legitimate who isn't out to rip us off or destroy our credit even further. We need a game plan, as we are in our mid-to-late 30s, and cannot sustain this. We take one vacation per year, not luxurious, but nevessary for two fulltime working parents of three kids. We do have our kids in a lot of activities. We do drive two newish cars we had to get for space when the kids came along (three car seats).

Can anyone recommend a legitimate accountant or debt advisor/credit counselor, who could meet with us and help us sort this out and come up with a plan?

Oh dear, OP, there are so many mean and petty responders here. Just ignore them. Remember the rule of karma.

I can relate. We've got 3 kids and are mired in debt as well. I posted here just about a year ago with similar circumstances, and many people responded very helpfully. Granted, I outlined my budget and that was very informative, which led, in turn, to some very insightful and helpful recommendations. Last year, at this time, we were about $210K in debt. Mortgage (primary and secondary), two cars, credit card debt, and student loans. The first step was creating a detailed budget - daily expenses, regular bills, debt, investments, etc. And tracking it like a hawk. The second step was ridding ourselves of unnecessary expenses - no more cleaning lady, no more cable/phone, no more piano lessons, no more dance lessons, no more tae kwon do lessons. That alone freed up around $600 a month. The third step was stopping our TSP investments, painful as it's been (but a great motivator to get ourselves out of debt); that freed up a good $1000 a month (again, painful, knowing the long-term investment losses).

Dave Ramsey has been a godsend for us. I listen to him every day. He keeps me motivated and on track.

We paid off our credit card bills first - around $7500. We are due to pay off our second mortgage in March - around $60,000. We are slated to pay off one car and one loan later this year. And then the other car, a family debt, and the second loan next year. The student loan will be paid off in early 2018. We will be debt-free at that point.

You live in a rowhouse and are paying $3400 a month. That is very high.
You have two car payments. Again, very high.
You pay for people to walk your dogs. Necessary? We have two dogs, they are crate-trained.
Restaurant/eat-out? We cut that out of our budget as well. Our grocery budget is about $400 a month. Not easy with three kids. But we became frugal and creative with our food.

Develop a budget, and stick to it. Create goals, and stick to them. Your kids are young enough that they won't remember these tight times coming ahead, but they'll appreciate the sacrifices you made on their behalf.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

^Good for you pp! You paid off $7500 in CC debt and 60K on your second mortgage in ONE year?? That is amazing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^Good for you pp! You paid off $7500 in CC debt and 60K on your second mortgage in ONE year?? That is amazing!

I want to second this! You've done a wonderful job! When you make your final payment, let us know before you call Dave Ramsey. I want to hear him yell FREEDOOOOOOOOOM!!!! to you!