This American Life about desegregation in schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is true. Actually, you could probably get really good outcomes by just giving poor parents lots of money. Poverty is the problem. Make them not poor. The solution is simple. Problem is, there's no way you can sell those policies to the American electorate. So you're back to square one.

You think these people ended up poor by accident? It's the choices they make every day. Like getting nails done versus buying a book.

You give them cash and check in a few months. I guarantee you they will have gone through the cash, back on welfare, and it's not because they invested into 529.

You take a low SES class black girl and put her in a nice shiny building with books and teachers. She'll get pregnant and drop out. We create nice buildings over and over again, and the schools fall to shit because you can't fix internal metal issues with expensive material crap. Kids need proper environment and role models. Schools cannot make up for the environment at home.

Or she could become Michelle Obama. Thats the point you give them the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. If that take that opportunity is up to THEM, but at least its THERE. What people are saying is there is not opportunity at the moment. BTW Black female teen birth is damn near at a all time low. Not to mention that black females percentage wise have the most degree's out of ANY GROUP. So your post is beyond ignorant and racist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not buying this argument that people have no choice.

In AL they do have a choice where to live, there is no big gap in real estate prices. You can live in a trailer and go to a very good school. If you live in a failing school zone you have the option of transferring to any school of your choice.

And we still have the same problem. The black schools are failing and only black schools.

It's a personal choice. The government cannot make you make the right choices.

So why aren't blacks failing in MD? Black graduation rate on average is slightly about 80 percent, which is the national average. Last I checked Alabama wasn't known for its great school system so I dont think its just the black kids that are failing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, each family will be assigned a counselor, a life coach and tutors in every subject. And maybe a librarian who will visit them daily and read outlaud to the child.

And while you work on mocking whole groups of people, consider reading your post 'outlaud' to yourself.

I didn't read that poster's response "outlaud," but I re-read it, and to me it seems a reasonable response to a proposal for mandated "wrap around services." What kind of cost are we talking about here, and who would qualify, and how?

Exactly. I live in Fairfax county, and I'm not sure why I should have to pay for wrap-around services for some poor in a place that's more than 5 miles from where I live. Sure poverty has costs, but I'm pretty much insulated from them. So what's in it for me?

Because you don't want to pay the cost of social services for them later? Don't want them breaking into your house or knocking you over the head to steal from you? Because the prisons are expensive and overcrowded (and also paid for by you?)

Right, but I'm not going to pay the cost of social services for them. That's why we structure our social services (housing, school, etc...) at the hyper-local level. So that me and my neighbors are insulated from any social or financial costs of national, state, and local policies that perpetuate poverty.

Well then what are you worried about, exactly? Sounds like everything is peachy in your little bubble.

Ohhhh. You're worried about the poors coming into your bubble.

PP is obvs playing devil's advocate. Lighten up. PP's point is that hyper-localization of school and other neighborhood amenity funding, combined with segregation due to real estate prices, hampers efforts to build political consensus around helping the poor. This is 100 percent correct. The wealthy have been able to build walls around ther enclaves, literally and physically, so they are insulated from the externalities of poverty, like crime.

You can't seriously believe this, right? What about the AU grad who was stabbed to death riding metro on a holiday weekend? What about the other AU grad who was shot to death coming out of a metro stop.

yes, I seriously believe this. It's one of the major obstacles to building any kind of political support for policies that help the poor. Neither of those AU grads was wealthy, based on publicly available information. The average wealthy person doesn't spend a lot of time in Shaw or use public transit, newsflash. People who live in McLean and work in Tysons have successfully eliminated their risk of harm from impoverished DC residents. This was my point. Happens all over the country.

But this is a forum about DC Public and Public Charter Schools. In DC, there are million dollar homes across the street from public housing - and yes, people are buying them, living in them and sending their kids to neighborhood schools.

And how many people fit that profile in the DC Metropolitan area? If you said a couple of hundred, I'd be skeptical. You've certainly identified a major trend driving national policies...

LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, each family will be assigned a counselor, a life coach and tutors in every subject. And maybe a librarian who will visit them daily and read outlaud to the child.

And while you work on mocking whole groups of people, consider reading your post 'outlaud' to yourself.

I didn't read that poster's response "outlaud," but I re-read it, and to me it seems a reasonable response to a proposal for mandated "wrap around services." What kind of cost are we talking about here, and who would qualify, and how?

Exactly. I live in Fairfax county, and I'm not sure why I should have to pay for wrap-around services for some poor in a place that's more than 5 miles from where I live. Sure poverty has costs, but I'm pretty much insulated from them. So what's in it for me?

Because you don't want to pay the cost of social services for them later? Don't want them breaking into your house or knocking you over the head to steal from you? Because the prisons are expensive and overcrowded (and also paid for by you?)

Right, but I'm not going to pay the cost of social services for them. That's why we structure our social services (housing, school, etc...) at the hyper-local level. So that me and my neighbors are insulated from any social or financial costs of national, state, and local policies that perpetuate poverty.

Well then what are you worried about, exactly? Sounds like everything is peachy in your little bubble.

Ohhhh. You're worried about the poors coming into your bubble.

PP is obvs playing devil's advocate. Lighten up. PP's point is that hyper-localization of school and other neighborhood amenity funding, combined with segregation due to real estate prices, hampers efforts to build political consensus around helping the poor. This is 100 percent correct. The wealthy have been able to build walls around ther enclaves, literally and physically, so they are insulated from the externalities of poverty, like crime.

You can't seriously believe this, right? What about the AU grad who was stabbed to death riding metro on a holiday weekend? What about the other AU grad who was shot to death coming out of a metro stop.

yes, I seriously believe this. It's one of the major obstacles to building any kind of political support for policies that help the poor. Neither of those AU grads was wealthy, based on publicly available information. The average wealthy person doesn't spend a lot of time in Shaw or use public transit, newsflash. People who live in McLean and work in Tysons have successfully eliminated their risk of harm from impoverished DC residents. This was my point. Happens all over the country.

But this is a forum about DC Public and Public Charter Schools. In DC, there are million dollar homes across the street from public housing - and yes, people are buying them, living in them and sending their kids to neighborhood schools.

And how many people fit that profile in the DC Metropolitan area? If you said a couple of hundred, I'd be skeptical. You've certainly identified a major trend driving national policies...

LOL.

Are you the Bama from Alabama? Because you obviously don't know much about DC. The answer is quite a few. And it's emprical proof that the premise in the This American Life story is true: lower income students at schools like Maury, Brent, Bancroft, Oyster. Ross, Cleveland , other DCPS I can't think of and just about every HRCS is doing well alongside kids whose parents live in million dollar homes. Exponentially better than they'd be doing in the midst of concentrated poverty.

Yes. Gasp. It's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, each family will be assigned a counselor, a life coach and tutors in every subject. And maybe a librarian who will visit them daily and read outlaud to the child.

And while you work on mocking whole groups of people, consider reading your post 'outlaud' to yourself.

I didn't read that poster's response "outlaud," but I re-read it, and to me it seems a reasonable response to a proposal for mandated "wrap around services." What kind of cost are we talking about here, and who would qualify, and how?

Exactly. I live in Fairfax county, and I'm not sure why I should have to pay for wrap-around services for some poor in a place that's more than 5 miles from where I live. Sure poverty has costs, but I'm pretty much insulated from them. So what's in it for me?

Because you don't want to pay the cost of social services for them later? Don't want them breaking into your house or knocking you over the head to steal from you? Because the prisons are expensive and overcrowded (and also paid for by you?)

Right, but I'm not going to pay the cost of social services for them. That's why we structure our social services (housing, school, etc...) at the hyper-local level. So that me and my neighbors are insulated from any social or financial costs of national, state, and local policies that perpetuate poverty.

Well then what are you worried about, exactly? Sounds like everything is peachy in your little bubble.

Ohhhh. You're worried about the poors coming into your bubble.

PP is obvs playing devil's advocate. Lighten up. PP's point is that hyper-localization of school and other neighborhood amenity funding, combined with segregation due to real estate prices, hampers efforts to build political consensus around helping the poor. This is 100 percent correct. The wealthy have been able to build walls around ther enclaves, literally and physically, so they are insulated from the externalities of poverty, like crime.

You can't seriously believe this, right? What about the AU grad who was stabbed to death riding metro on a holiday weekend? What about the other AU grad who was shot to death coming out of a metro stop.

yes, I seriously believe this. It's one of the major obstacles to building any kind of political support for policies that help the poor. Neither of those AU grads was wealthy, based on publicly available information. The average wealthy person doesn't spend a lot of time in Shaw or use public transit, newsflash. People who live in McLean and work in Tysons have successfully eliminated their risk of harm from impoverished DC residents. This was my point. Happens all over the country.

But this is a forum about DC Public and Public Charter Schools. In DC, there are million dollar homes across the street from public housing - and yes, people are buying them, living in them and sending their kids to neighborhood schools.

I'm PP, yes, I am aware of that, I am one of them. Well, ok, no public housing literally across the street, but same basic idea. But that doesn't change the fact that most people who can afford to do so, will buy or rent so as to minimize poverty and crime nearby, and if they are able to do that, then they are insulated from the impacts of poverty and less likely to support policies that help the poor, and especially less likely to support school integration because heck, they just paid an extra $200k on their house to avoid it. There are relatively few of us who make the choice to live in an urban place and send kids to urban schools when we could afford "high ranked" schools. To borrow your phraseology, do you seriously not believe this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not buying this argument that people have no choice.

In AL they do have a choice where to live, there is no big gap in real estate prices. You can live in a trailer and go to a very good school. If you live in a failing school zone you have the option of transferring to any school of your choice.

And we still have the same problem. The black schools are failing and only black schools.

It's a personal choice. The government cannot make you make the right choices.

So why aren't blacks failing in MD? Black graduation rate on average is slightly about 80 percent, which is the national average. Last I checked Alabama wasn't known for its great school system so I dont think its just the black kids that are failing

I don't know if I would go by graduation rates especially after reading the story on lead poisoned black children who are now adults and graduated high school being unable to read or to do math. I have read plenty of other stories where schools, even DCPS, just passes them on so they can graduate even if they are illiterate in reading and math. They pass them on because they figure having a "high school degree" is more beneficial than not even in the case where the student is functioning at 1st or 2nd grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I don't think a shiny new bldg will solve all problems, but perhaps it helps some, by attracting more high-quality teachers and letting kids know that they're worth the investment--the broken windows theory and all of that.

Like this hasn't been done before.

There were buildings built, staffed with best teachers, and millions of dollars were pumped, all fruitless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So why aren't blacks failing in MD? Black graduation rate on average is slightly about 80 percent, which is the national average. Last I checked Alabama wasn't known for its great school system so I dont think its just the black kids that are failing

They are failing in MD. Just out of curiosity I looked up the failing schools in Prince George's County. ALL of them are black schools.

It's the same picture across the country. Maybe we should try to find a black majority school that is not failing (if there is such a phenomena) and find out how they do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: just about every HRCS is doing well alongside kids whose parents live in million dollar homes. Exponentially better than they'd be doing in the midst of concentrated poverty.

Yes. Gasp. It's true.

I'd like to see the data to believe it. Because I don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: just about every HRCS is doing well alongside kids whose parents live in million dollar homes. Exponentially better than they'd be doing in the midst of concentrated poverty.

Yes. Gasp. It's true.

I'd like to see the data to believe it. Because I don't.

I suspect the reason these schools are showing better results is because the white rich kids are balancing off the failing poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don't think a shiny new bldg will solve all problems, but perhaps it helps some, by attracting more high-quality teachers and letting kids know that they're worth the investment--the broken windows theory and all of that.

Like this hasn't been done before.

There were buildings built, staffed with best teachers, and millions of dollars were pumped, all fruitless.

Recent examples include Dunbar HS....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why is there a dearth of middle class African Americans in Title 1 schools?

Because they can't afford to fail.

This is my observation, and I am white, so if you want to call me an ignorant asshole, it's okay--maybe I am... but middle class black kids don't have the same leeway that middle class white kids do. Their parents need their kids to have the best, and they work their asses off to make sure they get it. They (I hate generalizing like this, but it has been my experience in the past year that my child was in a DCPS) are much more like Asian immigrants, Indian immigrants, Russian immigrants, etc than lazy, entitled white Americans---who assume that they have room to mess up, experiment, try different learning techniques, take a week off and go to Disney (or Europe), opt out of testing, etc.

I say this as a lazy, entitled white American.

I don't freak out if my kid gets a C. I don't get a tutor. I encourage her to try harder next time, and shrug. I might try a title 1 school--and we did--but if it doesn't work, I'll flee to something progressive, not something strict. If my children don't do well on their state tests (this is what I've seen from my friends.... all affluent white people in NYC and Long Island)--the next year, I'll opt out, not drill the kids more. I know that my child will get into college, because her parents got into college. I assume this is our right.

And, for money, I know that tomorrow, if I needed to get an office job to pay the bills, my looks and my mid-atlantic English would get me one in the urban center where I live. I hate the term "white privilege," but I have to acknowledge that it does exist. It lets me be lazy. It lets my peers do things like send their kids to waldorf and not read until they are seven. And it is a bubble, just like being poor and disenfranchised is a bubble.

What I do try to do, is step outside of my bubble. Raise my kids outside of my bubble. And hope that other people, in other bubbles will do the same--have the opportunity to do the same.

We all want what's best for our kids, even if we don't always agree on what that is.

Best post in the thread. Black woman here raised down South by parents who have multiple/advanced degrees they earned during Jim Crow. Failure was not an option for me. Not going to college was not an option for me. C's were not an option for me. I got the "you have to work twice as hard to get half as much" speech regularly. I read very early and this was a source of pride among my family. My "smartness" was trotted out at all family functions. My parents took us to the library once a week, I went to the ballet (and took ballet and other dance classes as well as piano, art, horseback riding lessons) and symphony. Cultural arts were not optional. I can remember having to read a Poe story for an assignment once and my father buying me a book of all his work. Don't just read that one story, read them all. It was the same for my friends -- and my parents screened them heavily when I was a kid, -- and the Black people among my current set of besties have similar stories and backgrounds.

I have empathy and sympathy for those who look like me who did/do not have my parents and grandparents that love(d), support(ed) and push(ed) me onward and upward. But lately I have befriended someone neither black nor American who grew up under much different circumstances and their life is in constant survival mode despite their efforts to get ahead and do better and it has made me see how privileged I am and how, despite my empathy and sympathy, I still didn't get how hard life can be when you are worrying about basic stuff such as where you will sleep tonight, will you eat today, how to make these falling apart shoes last longer -- and every day you wake up and start it all over again. And this person has been doing this for most of their life. There are no parents -- terrible or otherwise -- to help.

This is all a long way of saying that many many many people need to pull their heads out of their asses. The measure of our characters will be shown by how well we treat and care for those most vulnerable among us. Like, for example, children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So why aren't blacks failing in MD? Black graduation rate on average is slightly about 80 percent, which is the national average. Last I checked Alabama wasn't known for its great school system so I dont think its just the black kids that are failing

They are failing in MD. Just out of curiosity I looked up the failing schools in Prince George's County. ALL of them are black schools.

It's the same picture across the country. Maybe we should try to find a black majority school that is not failing (if there is such a phenomena) and find out how they do it.

Sounds like Banneker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So why aren't blacks failing in MD? Black graduation rate on average is slightly about 80 percent, which is the national average. Last I checked Alabama wasn't known for its great school system so I dont think its just the black kids that are failing

They are failing in MD. Just out of curiosity I looked up the failing schools in Prince George's County. ALL of them are black schools.

It's the same picture across the country. Maybe we should try to find a black majority school that is not failing (if there is such a phenomena) and find out how they do it.

Sounds like Banneker

Most public and charter schools in DC are majority black as well. Banneker has an enviable track record but also selective admissions and the ability to send kids who don't maintain a 3.0 back to their neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So why aren't blacks failing in MD? Black graduation rate on average is slightly about 80 percent, which is the national average. Last I checked Alabama wasn't known for its great school system so I dont think its just the black kids that are failing

They are failing in MD. Just out of curiosity I looked up the failing schools in Prince George's County. ALL of them are black schools.

It's the same picture across the country. Maybe we should try to find a black majority school that is not failing (if there is such a phenomena) and find out how they do it.

.

Lmao it's a majority black school district and one of the largest in the country. You looked up the failing schools but not the many schools that are succeeding? There majority black as well idiot. That bias that you showed is the main problem