NYT Article on "Rise of Single-Parent Families is Not a Good Thing"

[Anonymous]

This Freakonomics episode interviews the person who wrote the book mentioned in the NYT piece. It’s thoughtful.

Still relatively light on policy prescriptions as apparently that was not the goal of the book but one offered is eliminating the marriage penalty in the tax structure.

https://freakonomics.com/podcast/when-did-marriage-become-a-luxury-good/

- OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there more than one participant in this thread who is obsessed with arguing that for a single parent with an education, having a partner and a healthy relationship is of absolutely no benefit to the children? I don't understand what is happening here.

I hear single mothers of all education and income levels bemoaning how difficult it is to raise children alone and asking for accommodations based on their status as single mothers. And I understand that. I have a great husband and a stable income, and I struggle with parenting too. Even so, I would be far less available to my kids without his partnership.

Which is it for single parents? If it's easy to raise kids on your own, then single parents should not need special accommodations. That can't be what the PP is trying to prove.

Right? Anecdote after anecdote about how great they turned out and how much better off they were. Ok. Then keep the benefits for the married couples since the single parents are doing so well.

[Anonymous]

Here’s the thing. So many in DCUM seem to think money solves every problem and anyone who ends up with a decent job is doing ok. We all know people who have money and jobs and are decidedly not ok. How do you measure feeling confident and secure? How do you measure the value of a roll model? All the most important things that parents bring to the table are really immeasurable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People are skewing this piece in a way that is not accurate. The author mentions nothing about policies or other measures to force people to remain in toxic relationships. She specifically refers to the benefit of having two parents with healthy relationships. She also points out that her research has shown children whose mothers have only high school educations or some college, but no degree, tend to have worse outcomes than those with two parents. Of course, there are exceptions.

Is the general idea that unique challenges are associated with raising children without a partner when you have not completed a college degree that controversial?

Was waiting for this argument and I was not disappointed. The author doesn't have to mention policies or other measures because that's baked in - it's called the patriarchy and it wants you in your "rightful" place in the home. That is and has always been the problem with these studies. They are used to bolster the argument that women should get married and stay married and anything else is selfish.

Look at the discussion on here or go all the way back to the discussion around Murphy Brown. We never frame this discussion around men failing women and they need to step up to the plate and sacrifice to keep their family intact. That's a generalization of course, but so is the idea that women are solely responsible for single parent home outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandmother who had her babies during ww2 and after was widowed when my mom was 13
All her kids did ok in life, uncle is engineer, aunt a school teacher, another became editor. Another a preschool teacher who married a lawyer who later became a judge

They would have been better off if there had not been a death in the famiy, but probably would have also ended up in the same professions and careers

This kind of post is useless. We all know people who grew up with single parents who turned out great. That is not the point. The point is that data on populations show that kids who are born to unmarried women are more likely to be poor, do less well in school, use substances, etc. etc. We have incentivized being single with our welfare system and it has wrought terrible outcomes.

Unmarried mothers do get married
Have you heard of step parent adoption? That happens too
Kids before marriage or marriage before kids or live together forever and never marry?
Who cares

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the framing here. Divorce rates are sky high. But is a kid with two parents sharing custody in a “two parent home?” What if one parent remarries or cohabitates?

Divorce rate is the lowest in the US in 50 years. Do some research.

Of course, it is ideal that parents are both in the same home--for kids--because it is logistically easier and overall less stressful. I am divorced. I don't think the marital status matters at all.

Two houses five min apart means we actually end up seeing kids 80% of the time even though we are 50/50. Not all divorces are the same. My kids barely notice the difference between us being married and divorced. We see them about the same amount. (We both work.)

In our situation, I think it very much is a two-parent home--we just have two houses (we sometimes we are each at each other's house for short periods of time).

The topic of the story is dumb. Of course married parents are ideal...if it is a good marriage. That is not always possible. Sometimes it is horrible and toxic. Then divorce is better. Amicable divorces are similar to decent marriages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But let's continue to act like abortion services is about evil slutty women... Our society makes no sense. Two parent households are better, but we're going to force you have this baby and become a single mother (leaving the father off the hook entirely as we continue to deride single mothers as the problem) and then we're going to shame you for it by conducting a study that says you've done parenthood all wrong, when you may not have wanted to do it at all.

In other words Americans are hypocritical schizophrenics who have no idea what they want, what they value, or how to better their lives. Which, in turn, makes them very susceptible to all sorts of con men/women.

News at 11.

Abortion has been readily available for quite some time. Yet there are so many single parents. They didn't choose abortion, so that's not the issue here. It's weird that someone is assuming they would have aborted their child rather than raise in a single parent household when they had the chance and didn't.

You don't know how many would be single moms aborted instead. Whether now or 100 years ago.

Is it better to kill the unborn or support women who find themselves facing this choice?

The point is we at least need to get back to acknowledging this is a bad choice. Too many people are choosing this path because they have been to do whatever they want, every choice is good and valid and there is no difference in outcomes. Do what makes you happy!

What is a bad choice?

Drinking too much and having unprotected sex with multiple partners.

I'm sure you never had premarital sex, or unprotected sex, or an unwanted pregnancy.

+1. I got pregnant by coercion in marriage. I kept the kid. Divorced the guy. Abortion would not have been a sin in that instance. Stop assuming unintended pregnancies are the result of sleeping around and making bad decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the framing here. Divorce rates are sky high. But is a kid with two parents sharing custody in a “two parent home?” What if one parent remarries or cohabitates?

Divorce rate is the lowest in the US in 50 years. Do some research.

Of course, it is ideal that parents are both in the same home--for kids--because it is logistically easier and overall less stressful. I am divorced. I don't think the marital status matters at all.

Two houses five min apart means we actually end up seeing kids 80% of the time even though we are 50/50. Not all divorces are the same. My kids barely notice the difference between us being married and divorced. We see them about the same amount. (We both work.)

In our situation, I think it very much is a two-parent home--we just have two houses (we sometimes we are each at each other's house for short periods of time).

The topic of the story is dumb. Of course married parents are ideal...if it is a good marriage. That is not always possible. Sometimes it is horrible and toxic. Then divorce is better. Amicable divorces are similar to decent marriages.

Marriage rates are also down. Not just divorce rates. No need to get divorced if you never married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the framing here. Divorce rates are sky high. But is a kid with two parents sharing custody in a “two parent home?” What if one parent remarries or cohabitates?

Divorce rate is the lowest in the US in 50 years. Do some research.

Of course, it is ideal that parents are both in the same home--for kids--because it is logistically easier and overall less stressful. I am divorced. I don't think the marital status matters at all.

Two houses five min apart means we actually end up seeing kids 80% of the time even though we are 50/50. Not all divorces are the same. My kids barely notice the difference between us being married and divorced. We see them about the same amount. (We both work.)

In our situation, I think it very much is a two-parent home--we just have two houses (we sometimes we are each at each other's house for short periods of time).

The topic of the story is dumb. Of course married parents are ideal...if it is a good marriage. That is not always possible. Sometimes it is horrible and toxic. Then divorce is better. Amicable divorces are similar to decent marriages.

Marriage rates are also down. Not just divorce rates. No need to get divorced if you never married.

No kidding. So what? It is still inaccurate to say divorce is sky high. It's not. It feels like no one in my zip code is divorced. Except me and my ex husband. It's really not common. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-us-divorce-rate-is-the-lowest-its-been-in-50-years-says-new-study-003630590.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to adequately and accurately prepare people for marriage and the rigors of family life. You know - bring people down to reality. I think Americans have a very ambitious view of marriage and partnership that rarely aligns with reality - hence so many are absolutely miserable. We need to better prepare young people for being heads of household. Our current navel-gazing/everyone is special/take me as I am/fragile culture is doing nobody any favors.

THIS IS THE ANSWER.

Women are prepared for marriage and raising children. As a matter fact, they’re extremely prepared to raise children without men.

The problem is, there are not enough men who are prepared for the job to marry.

It’s true that testosterone is plummeting. That’s a problem.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t go through this whole thread, but the premise of the study and discussion is just so…pointless and, frankly, sanctimonious. Everyone wants the “healthy” two parent idyllic family. Some are simply lucky enough to have it. For others, life just doesn’t work out that way. For lower income, there certainly are things that can and should be done to eliminate financial stress or other burdens to help those parents stay together, but other than that, for most, your cards just get dealt and everyone simply does their best. Is there more to it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the framing here. Divorce rates are sky high. But is a kid with two parents sharing custody in a “two parent home?” What if one parent remarries or cohabitates?

Divorce rate is the lowest in the US in 50 years. Do some research.

Of course, it is ideal that parents are both in the same home--for kids--because it is logistically easier and overall less stressful. I am divorced. I don't think the marital status matters at all.

Two houses five min apart means we actually end up seeing kids 80% of the time even though we are 50/50. Not all divorces are the same. My kids barely notice the difference between us being married and divorced. We see them about the same amount. (We both work.)

In our situation, I think it very much is a two-parent home--we just have two houses (we sometimes we are each at each other's house for short periods of time).

The topic of the story is dumb. Of course married parents are ideal...if it is a good marriage. That is not always possible. Sometimes it is horrible and toxic. Then divorce is better. Amicable divorces are similar to decent marriages.

Marriage rates are also down. Not just divorce rates. No need to get divorced if you never married.

No kidding. So what? It is still inaccurate to say divorce is sky high. It's not. It feels like no one in my zip code is divorced. Except me and my ex husband. It's really not common. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-us-divorce-rate-is-the-lowest-its-been-in-50-years-says-new-study-003630590.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Saying divorce is not common is inaccurate. Everyone doesn’t live in your zip code.

[Anonymous]

Just had my young adult child who is managing a relationship thank me for giving them a model of a healthy partnership. It matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the thing. So many in DCUM seem to think money solves every problem and anyone who ends up with a decent job is doing ok. We all know people who have money and jobs and are decidedly not ok. How do you measure feeling confident and secure? How do you measure the value of a roll model? All the most important things that parents bring to the table are really immeasurable.

The opinion he was written by an economist. You’d have to explain that to her since this is her opinion.

I agree that a single mother can easily give a child confidence and security.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandmother who had her babies during ww2 and after was widowed when my mom was 13
All her kids did ok in life, uncle is engineer, aunt a school teacher, another became editor. Another a preschool teacher who married a lawyer who later became a judge

They would have been better off if there had not been a death in the famiy, but probably would have also ended up in the same professions and careers

This kind of post is useless. We all know people who grew up with single parents who turned out great. That is not the point. The point is that data on populations show that kids who are born to unmarried women are more likely to be poor, do less well in school, use substances, etc. etc. We have incentivized being single with our welfare system and it has wrought terrible outcomes.

+100. My siblings and I were raised by a single mother and are all successful in our personal and professional lives. I still can understand that data and science indicates on average children are much better off with two stable parents in the home.