Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

No, that’s not an answer to the question the OP asked.

I’m not responding to the OP’s question (which has been answered numerous times). I responded directly to the post I was agreeing with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

No, that’s not an answer to the question the OP asked.

I think younger people may be more sympathetic towards Lindsay Clancy because of her social media posts, people are more familiar with PPD/PPP now, many women have experienced this first hand. However, the Andrea Yates case was in a different league imo. She was in a very controlling, manipulative marriage and I wouldn’t even be surprised if she suffered from mental illness like bipolar or schizophrenia prior to having any kids. From what we know about Lindsay Clancy, she was an average white millenial nurse living her fairytale life up in Massachusetts. By all accounts her husband was loving and supportive and there is no mention of any severe mental illness prior to this. Andrea Yates is truly, obviously severely mentally ill and was an abused wife, I do feel some sympathy towards her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

No, that’s not an answer to the question the OP asked.

I think younger people may be more sympathetic towards Lindsay Clancy because of her social media posts, people are more familiar with PPD/PPP now, many women have experienced this first hand. .

This is sad but true and a sad statement on our society. She killed 3 children end of story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

No, that’s not an answer to the question the OP asked.

I think younger people may be more sympathetic towards Lindsay Clancy because of her social media posts, people are more familiar with PPD/PPP now, many women have experienced this first hand. .

This is sad but true and a sad statement on our society. She killed 3 children end of story.

If we discover that Lindsay suffered from paranoid schizophrenia or bipolar prior to her pregnancies, and her husband said it was God’s will and forced her to keep having babies and was also verbally abusive towards her, I may garner some sympathy. But supposedly, her husband was a supportive loving partner. If she suffered fromPPD after her prior pregnancies, maybe she should have called it quits at two. Why push the limit? She was an RN, she should have made better decisions. I’m not totally sympathetic towards Andrea Yates either but it was a different time and we as a society weren’t as accepting or familiar with PPD, she was definitely more isolated than Lindsay Clancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

[Anonymous]

wow, this is really reminiscent of a case in Chicago more than a decade ago. i was living there at the time and knew the woman who was the family postpartum doula. it was devastating. the dad left for an hour, the mom killed the baby. the mom was subsequently found not guilty. there was very little coverage of the case, and her, in follow-up.

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/lakeview-mom-not-guilty-by-reason-of-insanity-for-infants-death/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

So because they arise differently you think that how they are prosecuted or viewed by society should be different than anyone else with a mental illness that kills someone? Or that all people with mental illness who kill someone should be viewed/treated differently than a non-mentally ill killer? Trying to understand what you are getting at?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

Nikolas Cruz most likely has fetal alcohol syndrome, but we have zero sympathy towards him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

Nikolas Cruz most likely has fetal alcohol syndrome, but we have zero sympathy towards him.

There was enough sympathy for him, for that reason, to keep him from getting executed, so more than zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

Nikolas Cruz most likely has fetal alcohol syndrome, but we have zero sympathy towards him.

There was enough sympathy for him, for that reason, to keep him from getting executed, so more than zero.

Ok so he was thrown in the general pop prison, which is worse than death for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

I think Chris Watts killed his family because he was a selfish jerk who wanted a new life with a sexy lady. So no, I don’t have compassion for him. If he had killed his child because, say, the child was terminal and dying a slow and painful death, and Chris wanted his child to be free from pain, I’d have much more compassion for him.

After learning about Cruz’ life, my disgust shifted from him to his birth mother. I absolutely believe he has FAS and his brain is not wired right. Unfortunately, the way it is wired led him to kill a bunch of innocent people. He’d probably do it again. So, compassion or not, he needs to rot in jail. He is a danger to society.

Putting aside what Clancy will face legally, it just seems to me with proper medication and oversight (no more births), she’s not a danger to our society. She (likely) has a specific psychosis brought on by pregnancy / childbirth.

[Anonymous]

IANAL but legally I think it comes down to mens rea. Criminal intent. Did the perpetrator have intent or knowledge to do what they did. Waiting for the husband to leave certainly shows that she knew she would probably be stopped if she did it when someone was home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

I think Chris Watts killed his family because he was a selfish jerk who wanted a new life with a sexy lady. So no, I don’t have compassion for him. If he had killed his child because, say, the child was terminal and dying a slow and painful death, and Chris wanted his child to be free from pain, I’d have much more compassion for him.

After learning about Cruz’ life, my disgust shifted from him to his birth mother. I absolutely believe he has FAS and his brain is not wired right. Unfortunately, the way it is wired led him to kill a bunch of innocent people. He’d probably do it again. So, compassion or not, he needs to rot in jail. He is a danger to society.

Putting aside what Clancy will face legally, it just seems to me with proper medication and oversight (no more births), she’s not a danger to our society. She (likely) has a specific psychosis brought on by pregnancy / childbirth.

Lindsay Clancy worked as an L&D RN, I don’t care how medicated she is, I don’t want her caring for me or my baby ever. Luckily she won’t ever work again because she will be institutionalized or imprisoned for life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look she is a murderer. This is not complicated

This. 25 pages and this is still the answer.

Yes, we can blame PPD/PPP all we want but in the end, she viciously murdered her three children. It’s the same as the the mentally unstable school shooter, or a mentally ill father who kills his family, who we demonize. Why is PPD/PPP held to a higher standard and empathized with any more than schizophrenia or any other mental illness, or having a long history of being bullied and ostracized?

Postpartum illnesses ARE different than schizophrenia BECAUSE of how they arise. These illnesses are a direct result of predisposition, hormonal imbalances, lifestyle changes, and the many other circumstances that go into someone's mental state. People experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety often have a history of anxiety and depression, but people experiencing postpartum psychosis do not have a history of psychosis. They are not schizophrenic and when the psychosis breaks, they are largely the same people they were before, albeit with the consequences of whatever happened during the psychosis to grapple with.

Postpartum mental health problems have a huge history of stigmatization, even more so than other mental health problems. You need look no further than this thread to see that in action. The prosecutor understands what they're talking about. The posters who have experienced this or have family members who have. But most of you posters have no idea what you're talking about.

As for what treatment she was engaged in, there are various levels of psychiatric care. Your regular outpatient therapy appointments once a week or every other week is the lowest level. It sounded to me like Lindsay Clancy was in an intensive outpatient program, which is essentially 3-4 hours of therapy 3-5 times a week. When I worked in an IOP, it was group therapy, individual therapy, family therapy, and medication management. This was for teenagers, but those are pretty standard components of any higher level of psychiatric care. People who are deemed clinically appropriate for an IOP have been determined to not be actively suicidal or homicidal, not actively psychotic, etc. They are essentially deemed safe enough to stay at home. I don't know the extent to which any of Lindsay's doctors felt that it was safe for her to care for children or be alone with them, but it definitely sounds like her problems were more severe than anyone realized.

I just have a huge issue with the large number of posters who either don't believe that postpartum psychosis is a real thing. It remains to be seen what actually happened here, but it is mindblowing to me that what seems to be such a clear case of postpartum psychosis to me, and the prosecutor, and the PPs who have experience with psychosis, is such a clear case of something else to so many of you.

Murder committed by a woman suffering from PPD/PPP should not punished any differently than murders committed by other mentally ill people. Lindsay was presumably under or misdiagnosed as were probably most school shooters and mass murderers. This is where I have a major issue, we immediately demonize other murderers regardless of their past or present issues/illnesses. Why should PPD/PPP be held to a higher standard? Why? I have a real problem with this. Please explain to me why someone like Nicholas Cruz, who had a terrible childhood and most likely suffered from some mental illness, along with most school shooters, or even Chris Watts, how do we know he wasn’t suffering from some sort of mental illness? Most murderers don’t get a pass, any sympathy, except for postpartum white women.

I think Chris Watts killed his family because he was a selfish jerk who wanted a new life with a sexy lady. So no, I don’t have compassion for him. If he had killed his child because, say, the child was terminal and dying a slow and painful death, and Chris wanted his child to be free from pain, I’d have much more compassion for him.

After learning about Cruz’ life, my disgust shifted from him to his birth mother. I absolutely believe he has FAS and his brain is not wired right. Unfortunately, the way it is wired led him to kill a bunch of innocent people. He’d probably do it again. So, compassion or not, he needs to rot in jail. He is a danger to society.

Putting aside what Clancy will face legally, it just seems to me with proper medication and oversight (no more births), she’s not a danger to our society. She (likely) has a specific psychosis brought on by pregnancy / childbirth.

Lindsay Clancy worked as an L&D RN, I don’t care how medicated she is, I don’t want her caring for me or my baby ever. Luckily she won’t ever work again because she will be institutionalized or imprisoned for life.

I think you still don't understand that postpartum psychosis is not permanent. Women experiencing postpartum psychosis don't STAY psychotic. When the psychosis breaks, it is entirely possible that Lindsay Clancy will be as mentally healthy as you are, PP, albeit with a hell of a trauma to process and try, somehow, to overcome.