Acceptance to selective colleges from private schools more difficult now than before?

[Anonymous]

I hear from my friends and colleagues who have high school age kids that getting into selective colleges has become much more difficult than when we were applying for college. I finally came across the following article which seems to argue that while statistically this may be true, among truly qualified candidates this may not necessarily be true. I'm curious to hear the opinions of other parents with kids applying to college.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/03/20/college-admissions-the-myth-of-higher-selectivity/

[Anonymous]

I read the article, and I would agree with the point that the Common App allows increasing numbers of students to more easily apply to those schools which a truly a "Hail Mary" stretch for them, and thereby increasing the number of applicants to those top schools.

[Anonymous]

It like rats trying to get off a sinking ship. The middle/upper middle class of today will be the working poor of tomorrow, the only way out people see is to get into the an elite school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear from my friends and colleagues who have high school age kids that getting into selective colleges has become much more difficult than when we were applying for college. I finally came across the following article which seems to argue that while statistically this may be true, among truly qualified candidates this may not necessarily be true. I'm curious to hear the opinions of other parents with kids applying to college.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/03/20/college-admissions-the-myth-of-higher-selectivity/

This is leaving out a few things:

1. Increased international applications. When I was in college at a very good school in the 1980s, I would say only 1% of the class was international and there were only a handful of international students from China. Now a school like Harvard or Yale has hundreds of foreign students applying for the undergraduate program (hundreds just from China), and many of those indeed fall into the "truly qualified candidate" pool. (International students now make up approximately 10% of the undergrad class at Harvard and Yale.)

2. Colleges have internally made a commitment to more geographic diversity within the USA, which does cut down somewhat on the number of students who will be admitted from East Coast feeder locales like DC, New York, and Boston.

Any college counselor of long standing at an independent school or boarding school will tell you that the number of kids admitted to the most highly selective schools has gone done precipitously since the 1980s. Pick up a yearbook from the mid-1980s at Sidwell, STA, NCS, or Andover and Exeter, and you will see the difference. Lots of kids still get in -- no doubt -- but nothing like 30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

http://ideas.time.com/2013/03/20/college-admissions-the-myth-of-higher-selectivity

Attached is a Time magazine article about admission to the most selective colleges and universities. Among other things, the article makes the point that admissions to these top schools is so "selective" because the Common App allows an ever-increasing number of students to more easily apply to those schools. That increases the number of applicants to those schools for whom admission would truly be a "Hail Mary" stretch (e.g. student with gpas and test scores below the 25-50%ile ranges of admitted students). In other words, there are a lot of applicants who have very little chance but still apply because the common app makes it easier to do so, and everyone want to try for their "dream school".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://ideas.time.com/2013/03/20/college-admissions-the-myth-of-higher-selectivity

Attached is a Time magazine article about admission to the most selective colleges and universities. Among other things, the article makes the point that admissions to these top schools is so "selective" because the Common App allows an ever-increasing number of students to more easily apply to those schools. That increases the number of applicants to those schools for whom admission would truly be a "Hail Mary" stretch (e.g. student with gpas and test scores below the 25-50%ile ranges of admitted students). In other words, there are a lot of applicants who have very little chance but still apply because the common app makes it easier to do so, and everyone want to try for their "dream school".

Sorry, I meant to post this on a related thread posted in the college forum. Redundant, I know.

[Anonymous]

There is also more outreach and more financial aid today. At schools with large endowments, there is a no loan aid policy making the doors open to more candidates. I have not seen statistics on this, but my guess is that the percentage of students filling up most selective colleges coming from private schools is down compared to public schools compared to 30 years ago, but that would be an interesting statistic if someone has it.

[Anonymous]

1) One of the schools my DC applied to took 15% international students.

2) The colleges do a huge outreach getting kids to apply. Applications are also up because the colleges want more kids to apply to be seen as more selective in rankings.

the whole process is horrific and makes it pretty tough on kids. we are not talking just trying to get ivy league acceptance but even at second tier schools. Not sure what is even a safety anymore.

[Anonymous]

I just went through this process with my child. (Good outcome, first choice ED.) It is horrific. I think, given the culture, that if they abolished the Common App, you'd still see students overreaching and applying to 12 and more schools. Even with the Common App there is work for each application in the form of supplemental essays. Filling in the balance of what's on the Common App wouldn't be all that onerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It like rats trying to get off a sinking ship. The middle/upper middle class of today will be the working poor of tomorrow, the only way out people see is to get into the an elite school.

I disagree about the upper middle class, which is essentially has become priced out of elite colleges. Our DCs won't bother applying. They will apply to in state publics and second tier privates that offer merit aid. We can't afford any schools that offer only financial aid.

[Anonymous]

In the future a lot more top kids will be graduating from state schools, because that's where many more will be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the future a lot more top kids will be graduating from state schools, because that's where many more will be.

Intellectually, I know this is correct. I still think it's tough on the kids going through the process now. Unfortunately, we - as parents - have created a series of expectations that must be difficult to bear. I look back on my own experience, multiple Ivy accepts and I am not brilliant (either as measured by GPA or SAT scores) and didn't have nearly the breadth of EC stuff that seems to be standard nowadays. And I just worked as a camp counselor in the summers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the future a lot more top kids will be graduating from state schools, because that's where many more will be.

Intellectually, I know this is correct. I still think it's tough on the kids going through the process now. Unfortunately, we - as parents - have created a series of expectations that must be difficult to bear. I look back on my own experience, multiple Ivy accepts and I am not brilliant (either as measured by GPA or SAT scores) and didn't have nearly the breadth of EC stuff that seems to be standard nowadays. And I just worked as a camp counselor in the summers!

Yeah but the SAT was harder when we took it! ('S True. You can look it up.) Joking aside, excellent point that we bring our own experiences to the party, and things have changed. I played a sport in college (and was even pretty good at it at the collegiate level) and I wouldn't get a glance from the coach today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It like rats trying to get off a sinking ship. The middle/upper middle class of today will be the working poor of tomorrow, the only way out people see is to get into the an elite school.

I disagree about the upper middle class, which is essentially has become priced out of elite colleges. Our DCs won't bother applying. They will apply to in state publics and second tier privates that offer merit aid. We can't afford any schools that offer only financial aid.

My niece is applying to some very good private schools - and she has cast a wide net - and is getting offered various amounts of scholarship money - making some places which they originally thought out of reach - now attainable. They aren't the 'elite' but I say it never hurts to try and see what they will give you...never say never!

[Anonymous]

This country has to deal with the surge in international students. China alone has 250,000 kids studying in the U.S. That's a lot of spots. I know it's a complicated issue but people have to at least talk about it. My view is that it was great when the best and the brightest came here to study and stayed. Now the best and the brightest come for their education and often leave. In some cases, we can blame the immigration law, in others we have to acknowledge there is more opportunity now in other nations. But learning and leaving is a big problem