Acceptance to selective colleges from private schools more difficult now than before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear from my friends and colleagues who have high school age kids that getting into selective colleges has become much more difficult than when we were applying for college. I finally came across the following article which seems to argue that while statistically this may be true, among truly qualified candidates this may not necessarily be true. I'm curious to hear the opinions of other parents with kids applying to college.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/03/20/college-admissions-the-myth-of-higher-selectivity/

It's fundamentally simple math. Look at US population growth during the period spanning when many adults were applying to college, versus today. Google estimates the current US population at 313 million. At the same time, the universities and SLACs that are generally considered most selective have added only modest capacity during that period. Someone may be able to come up with estimates of the number of applicants nationwide applying to college during the same time period. When you consider that the Washington region, which has higher levels of education/advanced degrees, income and affluence than the country as a whole, probably has a disproportionate number of young people applying to very selective schools, the situation may seem even more difficult. It's also no wonder that colleges and universities that might have been considered not as selective back in the day have become much more selective.

2010:
308,745,538
2000:
281,421,906
1990:
248,709,873
1980:
226,545,805

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This country has to deal with the surge in international students. China alone has 250,000 kids studying in the U.S. That's a lot of spots. I know it's a complicated issue but people have to at least talk about it. My view is that it was great when the best and the brightest came here to study and stayed. Now the best and the brightest come for their education and often leave. In some cases, we can blame the immigration law, in others we have to acknowledge there is more opportunity now in other nations. But learning and leaving is a big problem

You would think that so many Chinese students with degrees from our most selective schools would go home and push for more democracy and individual (and academic) freedom. But, alas, the Commies still seem very entrenched in the government there. Indeed, many of the students who attend our most prestigious schools are the sons and daughters of the Communist ruling elite. Maybe it's time for our universities to stop squandering resources on the un-reformable!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This country has to deal with the surge in international students. China alone has 250,000 kids studying in the U.S. That's a lot of spots. I know it's a complicated issue but people have to at least talk about it. My view is that it was great when the best and the brightest came here to study and stayed. Now the best and the brightest come for their education and often leave. In some cases, we can blame the immigration law, in others we have to acknowledge there is more opportunity now in other nations. But learning and leaving is a big problem

You would think that so many Chinese students with degrees from our most selective schools would go home and push for more democracy and individual (and academic) freedom. But, alas, the Commies still seem very entrenched in the government there. Indeed, many of the students who attend our most prestigious schools are the sons and daughters of the Communist ruling elite. Maybe it's time for our universities to stop squandering resources on the un-reformable!

When you consider the fact that the cost to educate a student is far higher than full tuition, we're also effectively providing a giant subsidy to China if the students don't stay here after they graduate.

[Anonymous]

To me this has taken an oddly xenophobic turn. I like the idea of having Chinese elites (commercial for now, maybe political someday) having had four years to experience American culture and some of the best of our values (free speech, freedom of inquiry) -- it can only enhance U.S.-China relations. Contrast that with crazy isolated North Korea.

I like my kids meeting bright young people from around the world -- intellectual and career contacts could come from that. I think full-paying international kids probably frees up more money for American kids who need aid. If my kid doesn't get into Harvard because 10% of the slots are going to brilliant Chinese students, then my kid will get in somewhere else where they will have a great intellectual experience. We have the best colleges/universities in the world and there are plenty of great options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me this has taken an oddly xenophobic turn. I like the idea of having Chinese elites (commercial for now, maybe political someday) having had four years to experience American culture and some of the best of our values (free speech, freedom of inquiry) -- it can only enhance U.S.-China relations. Contrast that with crazy isolated North Korea.

I like my kids meeting bright young people from around the world -- intellectual and career contacts could come from that. I think full-paying international kids probably frees up more money for American kids who need aid. If my kid doesn't get into Harvard because 10% of the slots are going to brilliant Chinese students, then my kid will get in somewhere else where they will have a great intellectual experience. We have the best colleges/universities in the world and there are plenty of great options.

Except it's typically the international elite - very wealthy, but not necessarily intellectual. But, yeah, I'll give you that they'll provide career contacts. More worrisome, however, is that many countries have much higher levels of corruption and it is possible to buy a high school degree, grades, and so forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this has taken an oddly xenophobic turn. I like the idea of having Chinese elites (commercial for now, maybe political someday) having had four years to experience American culture and some of the best of our values (free speech, freedom of inquiry) -- it can only enhance U.S.-China relations. Contrast that with crazy isolated North Korea.

I like my kids meeting bright young people from around the world -- intellectual and career contacts could come from that. I think full-paying international kids probably frees up more money for American kids who need aid. If my kid doesn't get into Harvard because 10% of the slots are going to brilliant Chinese students, then my kid will get in somewhere else where they will have a great intellectual experience. We have the best colleges/universities in the world and there are plenty of great options.

Except it's typically the international elite - very wealthy, but not necessarily intellectual. But, yeah, I'll give you that they'll provide career contacts. More worrisome, however, is that many countries have much higher levels of corruption and it is possible to buy a high school degree, grades, and so forth.

I am a teacher at a DC area school and have taught some Chinese exchange students who are now at selective U.S. colleges. They are brilliant, creative, and kind, and it was a pleasure teaching them. I am sure they are enriching the experience of their undergraduate classmates as they did their high school classmates.

A number of the exchange students came from a handful of highly regarded Chinese schools which have developed a strong track record as producing terrific students. To my understanding the colleges are aware of past issues with fraudulent qualifications and have developed a number of safeguards (although obviously no method is foolproof).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this has taken an oddly xenophobic turn. I like the idea of having Chinese elites (commercial for now, maybe political someday) having had four years to experience American culture and some of the best of our values (free speech, freedom of inquiry) -- it can only enhance U.S.-China relations. Contrast that with crazy isolated North Korea.

I like my kids meeting bright young people from around the world -- intellectual and career contacts could come from that. I think full-paying international kids probably frees up more money for American kids who need aid. If my kid doesn't get into Harvard because 10% of the slots are going to brilliant Chinese students, then my kid will get in somewhere else where they will have a great intellectual experience. We have the best colleges/universities in the world and there are plenty of great options.

Except it's typically the international elite - very wealthy, but not necessarily intellectual. But, yeah, I'll give you that they'll provide career contacts. More worrisome, however, is that many countries have much higher levels of corruption and it is possible to buy a high school degree, grades, and so forth.

[re-posted to fix typo]

I am a teacher at a DC area school and have taught some Chinese exchange students who are now at selective U.S. colleges. They are brilliant, creative, and kind, and it was a pleasure teaching them. I am sure they are enriching the experience of their undergraduate classmates as they did their high school classmates.

A number of the exchange students came from a handful of highly regarded Chinese schools which have developed a strong track record for producing terrific students. To my understanding the colleges are aware of past issues with fraudulent qualifications and have developed a number of safeguards (although obviously no method is foolproof).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me this has taken an oddly xenophobic turn. I like the idea of having Chinese elites (commercial for now, maybe political someday) having had four years to experience American culture and some of the best of our values (free speech, freedom of inquiry) -- it can only enhance U.S.-China relations. Contrast that with crazy isolated North Korea.

I like my kids meeting bright young people from around the world -- intellectual and career contacts could come from that. I think full-paying international kids probably frees up more money for American kids who need aid. If my kid doesn't get into Harvard because 10% of the slots are going to brilliant Chinese students, then my kid will get in somewhere else where they will have a great intellectual experience. We have the best colleges/universities in the world and there are plenty of great options.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this has taken an oddly xenophobic turn. I like the idea of having Chinese elites (commercial for now, maybe political someday) having had four years to experience American culture and some of the best of our values (free speech, freedom of inquiry) -- it can only enhance U.S.-China relations. Contrast that with crazy isolated North Korea.

I like my kids meeting bright young people from around the world -- intellectual and career contacts could come from that. I think full-paying international kids probably frees up more money for American kids who need aid. If my kid doesn't get into Harvard because 10% of the slots are going to brilliant Chinese students, then my kid will get in somewhere else where they will have a great intellectual experience. We have the best colleges/universities in the world and there are plenty of great options.

+1

If by "around the world" you mean mostly Chinese you are in luck. I am sure Burkina Faso has nobody in the freshman class at Harvard. Or any of those other fine schools. It's all about money, people. In the words of Brian Eno, "Same as it ever was."

[Anonymous]

I think you mean David Byrne.

And quit hating on the Chinese students. Most of them bust their butts to get along in a language that's not their native tongue, while xenophobic idiots make fun of their accents. They deserve nothing but respect for that.