Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read the more recent posts on the 239! pages. Any word on who was being transported in the BH between whereever it was they were? Was it actually a vip and whom?

We probably won’t know bc it doesn’t matter. Helicopters are/were authorized to use that route and airspace. Whether VIP or getting Trump McDonald’s. Just as commercial jets are authorized in that space because someone wants to visit Aunt Maude.

What we do know is this crash shouldn’t have happened and the only reasons we know so far are due to multiple errors from the pilots. They 1) got off course 2) were at wrong altitude 3) didn’t have the appropriate anti collision radar on 4) were inappropriately wearing night vision goggles

This

+1 !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not if all 3 were wearing NVGs

How many decades of wearing NVG culminate in thousands of incidents like this one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did Rebecca turn this off? Was this pure error or were they ordered to because of the still unnamed VIP? This is why we need to know who the VIP was.

I suspect they always fly without it. It wouldn't work in a war zone anyway and would just be a distraction.

No, but they can turn it off when they want to be invisible.

How do you explain the FlightAware data from ADS-B that was turned on over Saudi property? Can you pick one conspiracy and stick with it?

Conspiracy? All I said was that they don’t always fly without it and that military aircraft can disable their ADS-B, preventing their position from being broadcast. This helps them stay off flight tracking systems when necessary, especially during sensitive operations. In this case, we don’t know what happened with ADS-B, so we should wait for the official report.

I see Blackhawks fly over most days. I’ve only seen one show up on a flight app, and that was probably because they forgot to turn it off. The others in the group did not appear.

I click around on FlightRadar24 all the time to see what’s flying, both here and all over the country, and rarely saw military aircraft show up anywhere until a few days ago.

guess you don’t know anyone who lives or works in Old Town. See military helos weekly and more if you just sat there looking west.

I work downtown by GW, Old Town, and Rosslyn, Arlington and between news, medivac and military helicopters daily they've all been handled well. Until last month's tradegy.

This is not true. There have been dozens of near misses that in any other airport sould have triggered airspace changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problems that all lined up tragically:

Number one issue: Crowded airport with helicopters crossing into the flight paths of landing jets with little clearance room. This was standard, yes, but it diminishes room for human error or other issues, which needs to always be assumed in safety analysis. I can only aasume this will change after this incident

Plane was switched to a different run way and did a little turn that brought it into the black Hawks flight path

The new runway was shorter than the original runway and so the planes descent was likely steeper than if they’d landed on the original run way- again, bringing it into thr Blackhawk path at the worst moment

Plane and Blackhawk were talking to the same controller but on different frequencies so couldn’t hear each other or gain any sort of awareness that way

Blackhawk pilots likely had on night vision goggles which significantly reduces one’s field of vision and with city lights was probably distracting rather than helpful

Whelp, if ATC telling them the jet and runway two or three times and then to go around the landing plane can't help the Black Hawk then they need to be grounded during 6am to 12 midnight around Wash DC.

There already were many stop gaps: Radar, Navs, ATC directions and warnings, 3 people in the helo looking around or piloting, maintenance checks every time, jet had blinking wing lights to land plus landing floodlight, laminated Zone 1 flight requirements in the helo and route book, etc.

I am curious if the CRJ, at any point of landing, was told there was a Black Hawk traveling south on an intersecting route, albeit at different altitudes.

I feel experienced pilots would have aborted the landing based on that alone. Just general untrust of part-time military pilots or cowboy mentality.

PP I explained before, but to repeat, the ATC switched the jet’s runway to 33 I believe which is a shorter runway than 1 (probably bc this was a smaller plane) and which brought the jet right into the helicopters path. The helo perhaps thought another jet was the plane they were looking for, and the NVG didn’t help, nor did the fact that the plane and helo transmissions were inaudible to each other

Re the blinking lights, a pilot explained that if the plane was directly in the helo’s path, their eyes might not have seen the blinking. They also said that NVG severely diminish ones field of vision and also can be very distracted in in city lights.

You have no point. Get the basics correct before posting.

The BH was only told of the CJR and runway 33. That decision was made 5 minutes prior to ATC comms with the BH and is n all the ATC feeds made public. So zero change or confusion from the BH perspective. The airport has (only) two active runways.

The plan was never head-on flying towards the BH so you have no point there either. It dogtailed out to the east to line up with runway 33, and was coming in to land from the airport left or SE side of the Blackhawk.

[Anonymous]

Can’t wait to hear the helo black box.

It will either be silence and overconfidence, or last minute panic at the actual plane sighting, or a serious mechanical or medical issue that diverted it off course, or sound like an ignorant sight-seeing tour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problems that all lined up tragically:

Number one issue: Crowded airport with helicopters crossing into the flight paths of landing jets with little clearance room. This was standard, yes, but it diminishes room for human error or other issues, which needs to always be assumed in safety analysis. I can only aasume this will change after this incident

Plane was switched to a different run way and did a little turn that brought it into the black Hawks flight path

The new runway was shorter than the original runway and so the planes descent was likely steeper than if they’d landed on the original run way- again, bringing it into thr Blackhawk path at the worst moment

Plane and Blackhawk were talking to the same controller but on different frequencies so couldn’t hear each other or gain any sort of awareness that way

Blackhawk pilots likely had on night vision goggles which significantly reduces one’s field of vision and with city lights was probably distracting rather than helpful

Whelp, if ATC telling them the jet and runway two or three times and then to go around the landing plane can't help the Black Hawk then they need to be grounded during 6am to 12 midnight around Wash DC.

There already were many stop gaps: Radar, Navs, ATC directions and warnings, 3 people in the helo looking around or piloting, maintenance checks every time, jet had blinking wing lights to land plus landing floodlight, laminated Zone 1 flight requirements in the helo and route book, etc.

I am curious if the CRJ, at any point of landing, was told there was a Black Hawk traveling south on an intersecting route, albeit at different altitudes.

I feel experienced pilots would have aborted the landing based on that alone. Just general untrust of part-time military pilots or cowboy mentality.

All three in the helicopter were active duty. Not “part time” pilots

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not if all 3 were wearing NVGs

How many decades of wearing NVG culminate in thousands of incidents like this one?

NVG are meant for areas with little to no light. Think over remote areas of desert. They should never be worn while flying over big cities with lots of lights and incoming planes at night. That was a HUGE misjudgment if there were in fact wearing them- which it sounds like they were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not if all 3 were wearing NVGs

How many decades of wearing NVG culminate in thousands of incidents like this one?

NVG are meant for areas with little to no light. Think over remote areas of desert. They should never be worn while flying over big cities with lots of lights and incoming planes at night. That was a HUGE misjudgment if there were in fact wearing them- which it sounds like they were.

Other than it being confirmed that NVG were onboard the aircraft, what did you see or hear that leads you to this conclusion?

[Anonymous]

curious if you are flying a BH and ATC says there is a jet coming your way is there an option to just hold where you are and ask ATC to let you know when jet passes? I am not sure if that is possible and creates other dangers but wondered why you have to do maneuvers like fly behind when maybe just easier to hold? I have zero understanding flying. Also like to add that it would be nice if people stop saying possible malice. All these pilots were known to be great people
with zero mental issues and this feels mean to any friends/family who may read DCUM when things like malice comes up. Thank you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not if all 3 were wearing NVGs

How many decades of wearing NVG culminate in thousands of incidents like this one?

NVG are meant for areas with little to no light. Think over remote areas of desert. They should never be worn while flying over big cities with lots of lights and incoming planes at night. That was a HUGE misjudgment if there were in fact wearing them- which it sounds like they were.

Other than it being confirmed that NVG were onboard the aircraft, what did you see or hear that leads you to this conclusion?

If NVG were not being worn, then the pilot is supposed to declare it is an “unaided flight.” That was not heard in the recording, so it is the assumption that they were worn.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/black-hawk-crew-likely-wearing-night-vision-goggles-before-deadly-dc-midair-crash-ntsb.amp

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand how night vision goggles have to do with the helicopter taking responsibility for the plane, twice!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how night vision goggles have to do with the helicopter taking responsibility for the plane, twice!

Yeah, I don’t know. If night vision goggles diminish field of vision and in the presence of many city and aircraft lights also blur vision, the only thing I can think of is they mistook a different light (a city light or a different plane light) for the incoming plane. But yeah, there are no reasonable answers as to why it happened

[Anonymous]

Theory is they couldn't see the plane they hit due to restricted field of vision, many lights. They were looking at something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:curious if you are flying a BH and ATC says there is a jet coming your way is there an option to just hold where you are and ask ATC to let you know when jet passes? I am not sure if that is possible and creates other dangers but wondered why you have to do maneuvers like fly behind when maybe just easier to hold? I have zero understanding flying. Also like to add that it would be nice if people stop saying possible malice. All these pilots were known to be great people
with zero mental issues and this feels mean to any friends/family who may read DCUM when things like malice comes up. Thank you

Yes.
Hover or flying around Haines point island again.
For sure stop and figure out WTF the ATC is talking about if you’re eyeing a plane taking off to the north of you or the landing queue miles away from runway 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Theory is they couldn't see the plane they hit due to restricted field of vision, many lights. They were looking at something else.

Which means they didn’t care to figure out what Runway 33 is.