Why save for retirement if medicaid will cover your costs!?!?

[Anonymous]

As my parents are getting older and I am beginning to think about their options for long term care, I have been talking about retirement options with many people.

My parents were good savers. Not a lot of income, but they did sock away a very small nest egg. There plans were for the kids to inherit this money, after all, they worked very hard and made many sacrifices to save it for us. In their culture, it is very common for the parents to have the child inherit their assets and in turn, the child takes care of the parents. In the US, that isn't easy - especiallyu with dual working parents.

Anyway, Speaking with my SIL parents, who are both recently retired, I found it fascinating and surprising that they have saved NOTHING for retirement. Why? because they both worked and are currently receiving social security and disability payments, moved to delaware and can survive just fine on what they are receiving. If the need ever arises where they need nursing home care, medicaid will pick up the tab.

In the case of my parents, if they need nursing care, they will need to pay for it with the money they saved before medicaid kicks in. That just doesn't make sense to me and it doesn't seem fair.

So what is the point of saving for retirement, especially if you end up going to a nursing home and get the same care as a medicaid recipient? I feel sad for my parents, as they are realizing this, and have now reached a point where they are both too old to use up there money and travel, etc. When I look at SIL parents and my parents, it makes me so upset to see how a couple, who had on and off jobs all their lives and have saved no money are in the same position as my hard working parents, who reallhy thought that the money they saved would stay in the family. It almost makes me want to take my retirement savings and spend it so i can enjoy life a little more.

Just wondering if I am missing anything?

[Anonymous]

Medicaid pays for end of life type nursing home care. there are not a lot of places that take Medicaid anymore. the care is pretty poor.
people who have saved will be able to use the money to spend $2,000 - $3000 a month on an assisted living type place where a couple can live together in a hotel room type place, go to the dining room, play cards, go on little trips etc. food is taken care of in the dining room and staff is on site 24 hours to check on folks, doctors on site etc.

if they can stay in their home, they can pay for an aid to come to the house to help with bathing etc. Medicaid pays for very little aid and it is often very very limited. folks on MCD really need to rely on family to pick up the slack.

saving for retirement and elder care is really smart and absolutely does not put you in a bad position. those hoping medicaid will just pay have no idea how it works. sure if they are dying, have zero money and need a place to go, there is a facility BUT it is a scary place.

my grandpa went to a Medicaid facility just for a bit to recover from an illness (too sick to go back to assisted living for a couple weeks). the place was horrible. people half out of it just sitting in wheel chairs in a room with 50 people and the TV on. it was so awful I couldn't go back and certainly kids couldn't see it. the people were treated like cattle and hoarded into rooms.

[Anonymous]

Just as warning it is a bad plan. My MIL has no money, and would have loved to save if she could have. We are trying to get the medicaid and while the county is being helpful it is near impossible to get a nursing home bed in the area. I thought I had the process done and now the nursing home is playing games. No nursing home wants to accept the payment rate. I have called about 20. She is on the list for three but it is not looking good for anytime in the near future. Several I called tell you to apply and when you apply they refuse the application saying that they only accept medicaid from patients who have been in their facility at least a year and ran out of money. You are far better saving and private paying for help than going into a nursing home. Also, the quality of care is very different. My MIL cannot get a private room. It will be a shared room and its usually in a different wing than the private pay (not nearly as nice from the ones I've looked at).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Medicaid pays for end of life type nursing home care. there are not a lot of places that take Medicaid anymore. the care is pretty poor.
people who have saved will be able to use the money to spend $2,000 - $3000 a month on an assisted living type place where a couple can live together in a hotel room type place, go to the dining room, play cards, go on little trips etc. food is taken care of in the dining room and staff is on site 24 hours to check on folks, doctors on site etc.

if they can stay in their home, they can pay for an aid to come to the house to help with bathing etc. Medicaid pays for very little aid and it is often very very limited. folks on MCD really need to rely on family to pick up the slack.

saving for retirement and elder care is really smart and absolutely does not put you in a bad position. those hoping medicaid will just pay have no idea how it works. sure if they are dying, have zero money and need a place to go, there is a facility BUT it is a scary place.

my grandpa went to a Medicaid facility just for a bit to recover from an illness (too sick to go back to assisted living for a couple weeks). the place was horrible. people half out of it just sitting in wheel chairs in a room with 50 people and the TV on. it was so awful I couldn't go back and certainly kids couldn't see it. the people were treated like cattle and hoarded into rooms.

Not always true. My grandparents were in an amazing assisted living facility. It was like a luxury hotel. They had a pool, a fitness center, a wonderful cafeteria, all kinds of activities.... My DH and I used to joke that we would love to live there now. It set up so that you could start out living fairly independently in cottages and then gradually step up to more care as needed.

My grandparents were very wealthy and paid of of pocket. They had many friends in the center receiving exactly the same care but using medicaid. Most started out self-paying and then switched to medicaid when the money ran out.

[Anonymous]

As PPs noted, life on Medicaid is anything but sweet.

Curious, OP, if your cultural tradition includes caring for aging parents in exchange for inheritance, why is Medicaid an issue at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Medicaid pays for end of life type nursing home care. there are not a lot of places that take Medicaid anymore. the care is pretty poor.
people who have saved will be able to use the money to spend $2,000 - $3000 a month on an assisted living type place where a couple can live together in a hotel room type place, go to the dining room, play cards, go on little trips etc. food is taken care of in the dining room and staff is on site 24 hours to check on folks, doctors on site etc.

if they can stay in their home, they can pay for an aid to come to the house to help with bathing etc. Medicaid pays for very little aid and it is often very very limited. folks on MCD really need to rely on family to pick up the slack.

saving for retirement and elder care is really smart and absolutely does not put you in a bad position. those hoping medicaid will just pay have no idea how it works. sure if they are dying, have zero money and need a place to go, there is a facility BUT it is a scary place.

my grandpa went to a Medicaid facility just for a bit to recover from an illness (too sick to go back to assisted living for a couple weeks). the place was horrible. people half out of it just sitting in wheel chairs in a room with 50 people and the TV on. it was so awful I couldn't go back and certainly kids couldn't see it. the people were treated like cattle and hoarded into rooms.

Maybe assisted living in e.g. Florida costs $2-3K/month. My mother's monthly fee in her assisted living community was close to $8K just before she passed away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medicaid pays for end of life type nursing home care. there are not a lot of places that take Medicaid anymore. the care is pretty poor.
people who have saved will be able to use the money to spend $2,000 - $3000 a month on an assisted living type place where a couple can live together in a hotel room type place, go to the dining room, play cards, go on little trips etc. food is taken care of in the dining room and staff is on site 24 hours to check on folks, doctors on site etc.

if they can stay in their home, they can pay for an aid to come to the house to help with bathing etc. Medicaid pays for very little aid and it is often very very limited. folks on MCD really need to rely on family to pick up the slack.

saving for retirement and elder care is really smart and absolutely does not put you in a bad position. those hoping medicaid will just pay have no idea how it works. sure if they are dying, have zero money and need a place to go, there is a facility BUT it is a scary place.

my grandpa went to a Medicaid facility just for a bit to recover from an illness (too sick to go back to assisted living for a couple weeks). the place was horrible. people half out of it just sitting in wheel chairs in a room with 50 people and the TV on. it was so awful I couldn't go back and certainly kids couldn't see it. the people were treated like cattle and hoarded into rooms.

Not always true. My grandparents were in an amazing assisted living facility. It was like a luxury hotel. They had a pool, a fitness center, a wonderful cafeteria, all kinds of activities.... My DH and I used to joke that we would love to live there now. It set up so that you could start out living fairly independently in cottages and then gradually step up to more care as needed.

My grandparents were very wealthy and paid of of pocket. They had many friends in the center receiving exactly the same care but using medicaid. Most started out self-paying and then switched to medicaid when the money ran out.

Medicaid doesn't cover assisted living. It covers skilled nursing facilities (and not all of them).

[Anonymous]

I have a question. Aren't we talking about Medicare, not Medicaid, or am I missing something.

[Anonymous]

My dad is on Medicaid (not Medicare). If you think it's the same care that others get you are insane. My dad is in a nursing facility and it's bottom of the barrel care. It's hell. And although I don't have to pay the bills they do still send them to me. Depending on the month it's anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000 per MONTH. He is bed bound so he is not healthy and has lots of needs but... By saving for retirement you can possibly avoid living in one of these places. My grandparents saved tons for retirement and were able to live in a beautiful assisted living and then nursing facility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medicaid pays for end of life type nursing home care. there are not a lot of places that take Medicaid anymore. the care is pretty poor.
people who have saved will be able to use the money to spend $2,000 - $3000 a month on an assisted living type place where a couple can live together in a hotel room type place, go to the dining room, play cards, go on little trips etc. food is taken care of in the dining room and staff is on site 24 hours to check on folks, doctors on site etc.

if they can stay in their home, they can pay for an aid to come to the house to help with bathing etc. Medicaid pays for very little aid and it is often very very limited. folks on MCD really need to rely on family to pick up the slack.

saving for retirement and elder care is really smart and absolutely does not put you in a bad position. those hoping medicaid will just pay have no idea how it works. sure if they are dying, have zero money and need a place to go, there is a facility BUT it is a scary place.

my grandpa went to a Medicaid facility just for a bit to recover from an illness (too sick to go back to assisted living for a couple weeks). the place was horrible. people half out of it just sitting in wheel chairs in a room with 50 people and the TV on. it was so awful I couldn't go back and certainly kids couldn't see it. the people were treated like cattle and hoarded into rooms.

Maybe assisted living in e.g. Florida costs $2-3K/month. My mother's monthly fee in her assisted living community was close to $8K just before she passed away.

These places ain't $2-3K a month let me tell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just as warning it is a bad plan. My MIL has no money, and would have loved to save if she could have. We are trying to get the medicaid and while the county is being helpful it is near impossible to get a nursing home bed in the area. I thought I had the process done and now the nursing home is playing games. No nursing home wants to accept the payment rate. I have called about 20. She is on the list for three but it is not looking good for anytime in the near future. Several I called tell you to apply and when you apply they refuse the application saying that they only accept medicaid from patients who have been in their facility at least a year and ran out of money. You are far better saving and private paying for help than going into a nursing home. Also, the quality of care is very different. My MIL cannot get a private room. It will be a shared room and its usually in a different wing than the private pay (not nearly as nice from the ones I've looked at).

PP here and my we just went through this process with my dad. It's one of the most emotionally and mentally draining processes imaginable. And sadly there is no "Medicaid for Dummies" book to help you figure the whole thing out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a question. Aren't we talking about Medicare, not Medicaid, or am I missing something.

medicare is the insurance program for the aged, but it does not cover nursing home stays (except for short stays necessary as part of rehab after discharge from a hospital)

medicaid is the insurance program for the poor, so people who run out of money but need nursing home care can apply for medicaid coverage.

[Anonymous]

Np here. My mother and step father are relying on medicare and can't get access to in-home care. He needs a nurse (and so does she really) but are forced to go without. Medicare does not cover nursing home. This means they are in the ER (via ambulance) about once a week.

That being said, they don't qualify for medicaid but can't afford assisted living in their area. So sufficient savings is really needed if you want any quality of life.

[Anonymous]

This is one reason why the system as it is does not work. One never knows when the government will run out of money, but it will happen at some point. 29 states have laws that make children responsible for their parents care. This is called filial responsibility. These are rarely enforced, but as government runs out of money, people may be stuck with big surprises. Google filial responsibility and a case will show up.

I would rather not be stuck with the filial responsibility, even if it has a low chance of being enforced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As PPs noted, life on Medicaid is anything but sweet.

Curious, OP, if your cultural tradition includes caring for aging parents in exchange for inheritance, why is Medicaid an issue at all?

The above scenario works in the homeland, where typically the daughter or daughter in-law does not work outside of the home. It won't work for us here becauseboth my brother and I work and therefore can't provide the care. My parents never thought, does anyone?, that they would end up in a position to worry about this. So as they built up an inheritance for us, due to misinformation, they missed or misunderstood how medicaid works. They have a decent savings - a fully paid house, car and about 100-150K savings. I just wished they enjoyed life more and didn't feel the need to save this money for me and my brother - esp since we are both working and contributing to our own retirement plans.

I didn't realize that the care a medicaid recipient receives is different. My husbands undle was in a nursing home for rehab, ended up dying there, and he was self pay. I thought it was a horrible place, as a PP described, sad, old people left in wheelchairs in hallways, dilapidated rec area with various games that didn't work. His estate went to his care and ti was awful.