What is Middle Class....Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH makes a base salary of 300k. Then he gets a bo us that typically falls somewhere in the 250-500k range.

We try to live just on his base and save the rest it is really tough. I feel like it would be really hard to get ahead on just 300k.

Our HHI is around $200k. 14 years ago it was close to $100k. We have managed to fund our retirements, save and start paying for out of state college, go on a few nice trips, and live within the beltway sending our children to highly rated public schools. It isn't very hard or tight.

NP. Actually, thinking on this, the PP you're quoting probably pays over a third of their income just to federal taxes because of the size of the bonus. So if they're really trying to live on a third of 300k and are saving the rest, that's why it feels "hard" to them. They're actually living on less than you are. There is no way you are paying 33% in federal income taxes on 200k.

WHAT!?! They live off their $300k income and save the bonus. There is no way they have $200k in taxes on $300k in income. Anyway, our spending is closer to $75k a year. Again, we have managed to save enough to pay for college for two children and for our retirement with the $200k (or less) income. The pp says they save only on the income ABOVE the $300k.

NP. No the way I read it is, she's saying they live off their monthly income from his base and save the bonus. This is obviously after taxes. Federal income taxes on 600k + is going to be at least 30%. So they're essentially living on 100K from his base and saving the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH makes a base salary of 300k. Then he gets a bo us that typically falls somewhere in the 250-500k range.

We try to live just on his base and save the rest it is really tough. I feel like it would be really hard to get ahead on just 300k.

Our HHI is around $200k. 14 years ago it was close to $100k. We have managed to fund our retirements, save and start paying for out of state college, go on a few nice trips, and live within the beltway sending our children to highly rated public schools. It isn't very hard or tight.

NP. Actually, thinking on this, the PP you're quoting probably pays over a third of their income just to federal taxes because of the size of the bonus. So if they're really trying to live on a third of 300k and are saving the rest, that's why it feels "hard" to them. They're actually living on less than you are. There is no way you are paying 33% in federal income taxes on 200k.

WHAT!?! They live off their $300k income and save the bonus. There is no way they have $200k in taxes on $300k in income. Anyway, our spending is closer to $75k a year. Again, we have managed to save enough to pay for college for two children and for our retirement with the $200k (or less) income. The pp says they save only on the income ABOVE the $300k.

NP. No the way I read it is, she's saying they live off their monthly income from his base and save the bonus. This is obviously after taxes. Federal income taxes on 600k + is going to be at least 30%. So they're essentially living on 100K from his base and saving the rest.

PP here. We live on a monthly income of ~13-14k (this is after maxing savings to 401k and HSA). From this we save $2k to two IRAs and $4k to college savings each month. We also pay for our mortgage, utilities, groceries, eating out, entertainment, clothes, kid activities, etc. out of this monthly income. Then he gets a bonus twice a year. We pay for vacations and any other big "splurges" (like a new kitchen) out of that and try to save the rest. So, what I'm saying is, if we weren't getting the bonus, I don't know how we'd be saving enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH makes a base salary of 300k. Then he gets a bo us that typically falls somewhere in the 250-500k range.

We try to live just on his base and save the rest it is really tough. I feel like it would be really hard to get ahead on just 300k.

Our HHI is around $200k. 14 years ago it was close to $100k. We have managed to fund our retirements, save and start paying for out of state college, go on a few nice trips, and live within the beltway sending our children to highly rated public schools. It isn't very hard or tight.

NP. Actually, thinking on this, the PP you're quoting probably pays over a third of their income just to federal taxes because of the size of the bonus. So if they're really trying to live on a third of 300k and are saving the rest, that's why it feels "hard" to them. They're actually living on less than you are. There is no way you are paying 33% in federal income taxes on 200k.

WHAT!?! They live off their $300k income and save the bonus. There is no way they have $200k in taxes on $300k in income. Anyway, our spending is closer to $75k a year. Again, we have managed to save enough to pay for college for two children and for our retirement with the $200k (or less) income. The pp says they save only on the income ABOVE the $300k.

NP. No the way I read it is, she's saying they live off their monthly income from his base and save the bonus. This is obviously after taxes. Federal income taxes on 600k + is going to be at least 30%. So they're essentially living on 100K from his base and saving the rest.

PP here. We live on a monthly income of ~13-14k (this is after maxing savings to 401k and HSA). From this we save $2k to two IRAs and $4k to college savings each month. We also pay for our mortgage, utilities, groceries, eating out, entertainment, clothes, kid activities, etc. out of this monthly income. Then he gets a bonus twice a year. We pay for vacations and any other big "splurges" (like a new kitchen) out of that and try to save the rest. So, what I'm saying is, if we weren't getting the bonus, I don't know how we'd be saving enough.

I don't understand your point. You have to be saving six figures every year on top of 401k, etc. That isn't enough for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DH makes a base salary of 300k. Then he gets a bo us that typically falls somewhere in the 250-500k range.

We try to live just on his base and save the rest it is really tough. I feel like it would be really hard to get ahead on just 300k.

Our HHI is around $200k. 14 years ago it was close to $100k. We have managed to fund our retirements, save and start paying for out of state college, go on a few nice trips, and live within the beltway sending our children to highly rated public schools. It isn't very hard or tight.

NP. Actually, thinking on this, the PP you're quoting probably pays over a third of their income just to federal taxes because of the size of the bonus. So if they're really trying to live on a third of 300k and are saving the rest, that's why it feels "hard" to them. They're actually living on less than you are. There is no way you are paying 33% in federal income taxes on 200k.

WHAT!?! They live off their $300k income and save the bonus. There is no way they have $200k in taxes on $300k in income. Anyway, our spending is closer to $75k a year. Again, we have managed to save enough to pay for college for two children and for our retirement with the $200k (or less) income. The pp says they save only on the income ABOVE the $300k.

NP. No the way I read it is, she's saying they live off their monthly income from his base and save the bonus. This is obviously after taxes. Federal income taxes on 600k + is going to be at least 30%. So they're essentially living on 100K from his base and saving the rest.

PP here. We live on a monthly income of ~13-14k (this is after maxing savings to 401k and HSA). From this we save $2k to two IRAs and $4k to college savings each month. We also pay for our mortgage, utilities, groceries, eating out, entertainment, clothes, kid activities, etc. out of this monthly income. Then he gets a bonus twice a year. We pay for vacations and any other big "splurges" (like a new kitchen) out of that and try to save the rest. So, what I'm saying is, if we weren't getting the bonus, I don't know how we'd be saving enough.

I don't understand your point. You have to be saving six figures every year on top of 401k, etc. That isn't enough for you?

NO. I'm saying I understand why people who "only" make 300k in this area say they have a tough time "getting ahead" (i.e. building savings). I don't think we'd be saving enough ourselves if we weren't getting those bonuses.

[Anonymous]

Some people just piss away money, so no matter what they have, it's never enough. I'm not saying everyone, or even most, on this thread are guilty of that, but I think it's more commonplace than people admit.

For example, my boyfriend and I joined another couple (they're married) on a cruise on the QM2. BF and I each earn around $100,000' and we booked a very nice cabin with a balcony. My friend and her husband booked this duplex apartment type thing, and I couldn't believe it when I saw it. But they earn $400k (combined), so I figured they could afford it. They ate at the fancy rich people's grill and we had the dining room for steerage (I joke....it was very nice); so we didn't see them at meals.

That was last year. Just this winter, she was complaining to me that they couldn't afford to save any college money for 16-year-old daughter's tuition, and she'll just have to take loans. Now, I have no idea how much that duplex cost, but my BF and I paid $4,400 for out cabin. I am sure hers was at least $15,000 - probably more. And now she is whining that $400,000 doesn't go that far.

[Anonymous]

Our HHI is $1.6 million and we live paycheck to paycheck. Anything under $2 million in DC is middle class in our boom.

[Anonymous]

Book

[Anonymous]

It is so stupid to try and define an income where you are middle class. If you have to work to live, but are not working poor, you are middle class. There is no magic number. A janitor earning 25k a year with no kids and a low-cost studio may be able to live a comfortably middle class lifestyle. I traveled to Europe (hostels and backpacking) while earning 30k. However a couple earning a combined 60k with two kids may be struggling to pay rent, given the cost of daycare. Two married lawyers who each are PDs or solos earning 60k, while trying to pay for 2-3k a month in student loans plus two daycares, may be barely making ends meet despite having an HHI of 120k. Take a family earning 200k, hit them with 100k annually in medical bills, and they will likely go bankrupt. Someone who earns 70k a year living off an inheritance is not middle class, they are wealthy, yet their HHI is still only 70k. Trying to peg middle class to a number is impossible. If your expenses are extremely low, it is posssible to build wealth on virtually any salary over 20/25k a year. If your expenses are extremely high, it may be impossible to build wealth even on a high salary. This is just math. So yes, people can earn the same amount, and have totally different lifestyles, and all be hardworking thrifty people. 100k + 2 earners + 5 kids + HCOL may equal no frills, no vacations, no eating out. 100k + 1 earner/1 SAH + 1 kid may equal housekeeper and international vacations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some people just piss away money, so no matter what they have, it's never enough. I'm not saying everyone, or even most, on this thread are guilty of that, but I think it's more commonplace than people admit.

For example, my boyfriend and I joined another couple (they're married) on a cruise on the QM2. BF and I each earn around $100,000' and we booked a very nice cabin with a balcony. My friend and her husband booked this duplex apartment type thing, and I couldn't believe it when I saw it. But they earn $400k (combined), so I figured they could afford it. They ate at the fancy rich people's grill and we had the dining room for steerage (I joke....it was very nice); so we didn't see them at meals.

That was last year. Just this winter, she was complaining to me that they couldn't afford to save any college money for 16-year-old daughter's tuition, and she'll just have to take loans. Now, I have no idea how much that duplex cost, but my BF and I paid $4,400 for out cabin. I am sure hers was at least $15,000 - probably more. And now she is whining that $400,000 doesn't go that far.

Good post.... Now trying being the family that can't even afford a cruise - and then hear someone like your friend complain. Its hard to listen to!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people just piss away money, so no matter what they have, it's never enough. I'm not saying everyone, or even most, on this thread are guilty of that, but I think it's more commonplace than people admit.

For example, my boyfriend and I joined another couple (they're married) on a cruise on the QM2. BF and I each earn around $100,000' and we booked a very nice cabin with a balcony. My friend and her husband booked this duplex apartment type thing, and I couldn't believe it when I saw it. But they earn $400k (combined), so I figured they could afford it. They ate at the fancy rich people's grill and we had the dining room for steerage (I joke....it was very nice); so we didn't see them at meals.

That was last year. Just this winter, she was complaining to me that they couldn't afford to save any college money for 16-year-old daughter's tuition, and she'll just have to take loans. Now, I have no idea how much that duplex cost, but my BF and I paid $4,400 for out cabin. I am sure hers was at least $15,000 - probably more. And now she is whining that $400,000 doesn't go that far.

Good post.... Now trying being the family that can't even afford a cruise - and then hear someone like your friend complain. Its hard to listen to!

Exactly! (I'm the one above with the cruise story.) And can you imagine hearing people, like the person up a couple of posts, who says they're "middle class" on nearly $2 million of income? I can't tell if they're serious or just trolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people just piss away money, so no matter what they have, it's never enough. I'm not saying everyone, or even most, on this thread are guilty of that, but I think it's more commonplace than people admit.

For example, my boyfriend and I joined another couple (they're married) on a cruise on the QM2. BF and I each earn around $100,000' and we booked a very nice cabin with a balcony. My friend and her husband booked this duplex apartment type thing, and I couldn't believe it when I saw it. But they earn $400k (combined), so I figured they could afford it. They ate at the fancy rich people's grill and we had the dining room for steerage (I joke....it was very nice); so we didn't see them at meals.

That was last year. Just this winter, she was complaining to me that they couldn't afford to save any college money for 16-year-old daughter's tuition, and she'll just have to take loans. Now, I have no idea how much that duplex cost, but my BF and I paid $4,400 for out cabin. I am sure hers was at least $15,000 - probably more. And now she is whining that $400,000 doesn't go that far.

Good post.... Now trying being the family that can't even afford a cruise - and then hear someone like your friend complain. Its hard to listen to!

Exactly! (I'm the one above with the cruise story.) And can you imagine hearing people, like the person up a couple of posts, who says they're "middle class" on nearly $2 million of income? I can't tell if they're serious or just trolling.

Trolling, just like the majority of the multimillionaire posters here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people just piss away money, so no matter what they have, it's never enough. I'm not saying everyone, or even most, on this thread are guilty of that, but I think it's more commonplace than people admit.

For example, my boyfriend and I joined another couple (they're married) on a cruise on the QM2. BF and I each earn around $100,000' and we booked a very nice cabin with a balcony. My friend and her husband booked this duplex apartment type thing, and I couldn't believe it when I saw it. But they earn $400k (combined), so I figured they could afford it. They ate at the fancy rich people's grill and we had the dining room for steerage (I joke....it was very nice); so we didn't see them at meals.

That was last year. Just this winter, she was complaining to me that they couldn't afford to save any college money for 16-year-old daughter's tuition, and she'll just have to take loans. Now, I have no idea how much that duplex cost, but my BF and I paid $4,400 for out cabin. I am sure hers was at least $15,000 - probably more. And now she is whining that $400,000 doesn't go that far.

Good post.... Now trying being the family that can't even afford a cruise - and then hear someone like your friend complain. Its hard to listen to!

Exactly! (I'm the one above with the cruise story.) And can you imagine hearing people, like the person up a couple of posts, who says they're "middle class" on nearly $2 million of income? I can't tell if they're serious or just trolling.

Trolling, just like the majority of the multimillionaire posters here.

What about the person who says the woman earning $100,000 almost qualifies for welfare? Was that a joke? I can't believe people really think that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people just piss away money, so no matter what they have, it's never enough. I'm not saying everyone, or even most, on this thread are guilty of that, but I think it's more commonplace than people admit.

For example, my boyfriend and I joined another couple (they're married) on a cruise on the QM2. BF and I each earn around $100,000' and we booked a very nice cabin with a balcony. My friend and her husband booked this duplex apartment type thing, and I couldn't believe it when I saw it. But they earn $400k (combined), so I figured they could afford it. They ate at the fancy rich people's grill and we had the dining room for steerage (I joke....it was very nice); so we didn't see them at meals.

That was last year. Just this winter, she was complaining to me that they couldn't afford to save any college money for 16-year-old daughter's tuition, and she'll just have to take loans. Now, I have no idea how much that duplex cost, but my BF and I paid $4,400 for out cabin. I am sure hers was at least $15,000 - probably more. And now she is whining that $400,000 doesn't go that far.

Good post.... Now trying being the family that can't even afford a cruise - and then hear someone like your friend complain. Its hard to listen to!

Exactly! (I'm the one above with the cruise story.) And can you imagine hearing people, like the person up a couple of posts, who says they're "middle class" on nearly $2 million of income? I can't tell if they're serious or just trolling.

Trolling, just like the majority of the multimillionaire posters here.

What about the person who says the woman earning $100,000 almost qualifies for welfare? Was that a joke? I can't believe people really think that!

I think people really think that sadly. They are so out of touch. But I agree that the $2M poster was just being sarcastic/trolling.

[Anonymous]

If you're looking at financial class from an earned income perspective, you are middle class. Perhaps upper middle class, but middle class. Financial class is determined by net worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you're looking at financial class from an earned income perspective, you are middle class. Perhaps upper middle class, but middle class. Financial class is determined by net worth.