Anonymous wrote:I am an mcps educator and send my kids to mcps public schools. What I am seeing is disheartening. Teachers are at their breaking point; the behaviors and needs of the kids are unbelievable; Many are quitting even after many years of service; We are hiring whoever we can get- probably subpar people because at this point we need warm bodies; The education is suffering- I see teachers playing a YouTube video of a book read aloud instead of reading the book themselves; Gym and art teachers running their class with videos instead of good direct instruction- I guess they are tired and this isn't forbidden; I work with my own kids on basic facts because I don't trust the system to do a good job. Too many needy kids, burnt out teachers, poor instructional approaches, a growing lack of resources...the list goes on anc on; I truly believe mcps is sinking ship and will continue to decline year over year
As a parent, we are at our breaking point too. Teachers who don’t teach, grade assignments, review assignments and give feedback, don’t return emails from students or parents and do the absolute minimum. My kids are in tutoring for some subjects more than the actual class time because of the lack of instruction and textbooks to teach your self. You need to work with parents instead of complaining and kids will not thrive without a good support system. And enough with the small group projects and discussions. Get back to teaching.
Teacher here and I can’t do any more than I’m doing. Seriously. I’m being asked to do the work of three people and I devote seven days a week to my job.
And my own kids? I tutor them for the reasons you mentioned above.
The difference between us is I’m not blaming their teachers for the deficiencies I see in their educations. I know those teachers are doing their best in a broken system.
I think the above post really reflects the job creep of teaching over the last 20 years. Email, online grading systems, more demanding students and parents has really made teaching more difficult. Paperwork is more, we are expected to teach SEL, manage more behavior issues, deal with more ESOL and SpEd students. State and local testing regimes. We even do SATs during school hours now instead of on weekends like is was done 20 years ago. Expectations to run clubs and after school events.. It just feels like most of my job isn’t actually teaching. And I get dinged if I don’t do it. Whereas good teaching doesn’t get rewarded at all by the powers that be.
Also, we don't have a choice really in how our classrooms are run. As its been posted in other threads, the district's huge push right now is for small groups. So admin is on teachers to teach for 15-20 minutes max and then rotate small groups. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all. On top of it, admin seems to forget that teachers also need to manage their classroom during this time, so many times, the small group working with the teacher is routinely interrupted to put out fires happening around the rest of the classroom while the rest of the class works "independently." Small groups are absolutely beneficial but they should not be at the expense of solid, whole group instructional time.
This is probably a stupid question, but what if you just said no? What if you just did the small groups when you thought it made sense, or not run clubs, etc? What would happen if you just worked 8 hours a day, weekdays only, and after that called it quits?
I mean, what if you just refused to do something at your job? We can't just override the people "in charge" of us. However, we can quit if we feel like we aren't doing what is best for our students which is another reason I think a mass exodus from MCPS is definitely going to happen this year. MCPS is failing students and we are sick of helping facilitate that. I'd rather take a paycut to teach in a county that values real education, not just test scores.
DP
I work in government. If I refuse to do something at my job, my boss cannot force me to do it. I mean I guess they could literally hold a gun to my head, but that would be illegal.
Their options would be to not give a step increase, put me on a performance plan and maybe fire me. But firing is extremely rare and very difficult to do. I would really need to be causing them problems for them to actually pursue this. I often don't do things the way my boss told me to, because their direction did not make sense. They've never sanctioned me for that.
Of course, this isn't MCPS. But my point is short of threatening violence nobody can actually force someone else to do something. They can punish you for not doing something, you may as a result feel incentivized to do what they want, but they can't actually force you. I think that might be what the PP's question is getting at.
How clueless are you? Have you not been paying attention to the news at all? Teachers and admin are getting fired left and right in Florida for "not following the rules." It can and will happen. There are 9 weeks left. Most of us would rather just survive with a semblance of peace and get the heck out out of here in June.
So you think MCPS is going the way of Florida? Fascinating.
You truly are too stupid to deal with. It was an example of how right now, in the American educational system, just refusing to do your job won't fly. Maybe MCPS isn't at the degree Florida is now, but it's not easy to see why teachers can't just get away with doing whatever they want. That should have been obvious to you in the first place, but apparently, you're not exactly the brightest person.
I like how parents on these boards are simultaneously told not to tell teachers what to do (even if we are literally answering a question that was asked about our non teaching jobs, not telling anyone what to do) because we don't know enough about their jobs, and also expected to know everything about how your jobs work. Also shouting "BUT FLORIDA" is not informative or persuasive.
Bc the situations arent analogous. If I refuse to respond to parent emails, I will be dinged points on my evaluation; If I refuse to cover a class, I will be punished for not being a team player; If I refuse to attend a SPED meeting, again, points on my evaluation. Admin is able to weaponize our refusal against us.
Our teachers don’t respond. How would anyone know?
One of my kid's has a teacher who ignores our emails. So do I need to CC the principal to get a response then?
PS We only emailed them once ask if we could schedule a conference. When they didn't get back to us we tried again a few weeks later one more time.
What grade is your child in and what do you want? Do you realize how busy the teacher is and how much they are dreading having to meet with you when they could be doing something else? Imagine if every parent wanted conferences all the time. Send your kid to private school if you want that level of service. This is why the teacher is ignoring your email!
This is what frustrates parents. Wanting a conference with the teacher to discuss their child or heck even a weekly message about what is going on in class is the base level expectation that most parents have. Parent involvement starts with parents knowing what’s going on with their kid/the class.. The no news is good news isn’t helpful, especially when that isn’t explained. I’ve heard more than one parent describe school like a black hole they send their kid to. Very little information comes out, no one explains everything, but if something goes bad parents are expected to jump.
Prime example, the 100th day of school. My kids Kindergarten year(and honestly every year since) I was like why is this a thing. We didn’t celebrate 50, or 75, or even 90 which is half way through the year. So I had to ask a teacher family member because it made zero sense.
I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service.
You needed the 100 days of school celebration… explained to you? That tradition has been going on all over the country since like the 50s. Welcome to planet earth?
Also, of course they determine the level of involvment. That is part of their responsibility as a professsional. If I am working at a pizza shop, I'll let you pick your toppings but you can't come back and make the dough and spread out the sauce and cheese. What you mean to say is you want more involvement, which even you acknowledge would be an excessive burden on teachers.
What are you even talking about? Lay off the booze at lunch.
From PP
"I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service."
This block is just full of contradictions, "I'm easy going but I expect a response any time I have an issue" "You should be trusted but I don't trust you"
These are the exact parents that make us leave. The ones who will send the late night email saying "I know you're really busy but..."
Your response makes no sense. When do you expect parents to send email but in the evening/at night when they also finally have time? No one said you have to respond that night or even at 8am the next morning. Just in a reasonable timeframe. And yes, you’re trusted as educator but you still aren’t my child’s primary provider or even family so the level of trust is commensurate with the relationship. You’re a partner to parents in the education of their kid. Partners collaborate and answer the questions and concerns of their partners.
NP and not a teacher, but "partner" seems a reach. I mean, as much as I'm a partner to my doctor in my healthcare or a partner to my auto mechanic in addressing car trouble. One of us has expertise in the domain and the other doesn't. Seems like you feel entitled to a level of interaction with the teacher that isn't reasonable for any other professional relationship.
So your doctor gets to make the decisions on the healthcare of you or your child w/o explaining it to you? Because mine does not. That’s the whole point of documenting and discussing a care plan. Partnering together is the entire point of appointments and consultations, so that the physician can examine, make a diagnosis, discuss with the patient, and then answer and questions or concerns. Partnership between physician and patient is one of the biggest things that Physicians advocate for as they do it produces better results include greater preventive care. That doesn’t mean the doctor lacks expertise or isn’t trusted. It means they understand they need to build a level of personal trust with their patients.
Auto Mechanics do not do any work on a vehicle not specifically requested and approved by the car owner.
So based on the two examples above, parents are actually providing educators with more trust and leeway to perform the job based on their expertise. What they are requesting based on my post is communication and partnership.
The patient or vehicle is the child, not the parent.
So if I take my 8 year old to the doctor the doctor should discuss the issue with my child and not me, nor am I allowed to ask any questions? That sounds awful and wrong.
Teachers do this. They send home report cards, and hold parent teacher conferences. You just want more.
Report cards are often meaningless. Often teachers just give a grade without feedback. And parent conferences are in the fall only.
Especially in early ES. For example, my kid got straight A's and a C in art. Oddly she draws beautifully, but we have no clue what's up, especially since that teacher ignores email. Sure, it's probably random and doesn't matter but thought it might help to try and understand..
A generation ago, a parent would have asked their kid, “hey, what’s going on in art class? Any idea why you have a bad grade?” It’s very disappointing that today a parent concludes that it’s “random” and the teacher is at fault because she didn’t answer what I expect was a pretty accusatory email.
Odds are, your child refuses to do the assignment, and instead proclaims loudly that she “draws beautifully” and doesn’t need to listen to a teacher.
You do realize some of us pay attention. We can see the assignments and lessons online.
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
Then you engage them better and you notify parents that the assignment is not turned in. It sounds like the kids don’t have the basics in your class and you need to start there. If half the class is struggling what can you do different. It’s not just spoon feeding them.
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
Then you engage them better and you notify parents that the assignment is not turned in. It sounds like the kids don’t have the basics in your class and you need to start there. If half the class is struggling what can you do different. It’s not just spoon feeding them.
Lol now you're an expert on classroom management too? Maybe you should quit whatever it is you do all day besides moan on DCUM and apply since you know everything already!
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
Then you engage them better and you notify parents that the assignment is not turned in. It sounds like the kids don’t have the basics in your class and you need to start there. If half the class is struggling what can you do different. It’s not just spoon feeding them.
Lol now you're an expert on classroom management too? Maybe you should quit whatever it is you do all day besides moan on DCUM and apply since you know everything already!
If half your class failed an assignment maybe something needs to change in what you are doing. If my kid isn’t doing their assignment as a teacher you let me know and it will get done.
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
Then you engage them better and you notify parents that the assignment is not turned in. It sounds like the kids don’t have the basics in your class and you need to start there. If half the class is struggling what can you do different. It’s not just spoon feeding them.
Lol now you're an expert on classroom management too? Maybe you should quit whatever it is you do all day besides moan on DCUM and apply since you know everything already!
If half your class failed an assignment maybe something needs to change in what you are doing. If my kid isn’t doing their assignment as a teacher you let me know and it will get done.
You need to go into the classrooms. We need people like you who can solve all educational issues. In actuality, I don’t even know how to respond to your level of ignorance.
Anonymous wrote:I am an mcps educator and send my kids to mcps public schools. What I am seeing is disheartening. Teachers are at their breaking point; the behaviors and needs of the kids are unbelievable; Many are quitting even after many years of service; We are hiring whoever we can get- probably subpar people because at this point we need warm bodies; The education is suffering- I see teachers playing a YouTube video of a book read aloud instead of reading the book themselves; Gym and art teachers running their class with videos instead of good direct instruction- I guess they are tired and this isn't forbidden; I work with my own kids on basic facts because I don't trust the system to do a good job. Too many needy kids, burnt out teachers, poor instructional approaches, a growing lack of resources...the list goes on anc on; I truly believe mcps is sinking ship and will continue to decline year over year
As a parent, we are at our breaking point too. Teachers who don’t teach, grade assignments, review assignments and give feedback, don’t return emails from students or parents and do the absolute minimum. My kids are in tutoring for some subjects more than the actual class time because of the lack of instruction and textbooks to teach your self. You need to work with parents instead of complaining and kids will not thrive without a good support system. And enough with the small group projects and discussions. Get back to teaching.
Teacher here and I can’t do any more than I’m doing. Seriously. I’m being asked to do the work of three people and I devote seven days a week to my job.
And my own kids? I tutor them for the reasons you mentioned above.
The difference between us is I’m not blaming their teachers for the deficiencies I see in their educations. I know those teachers are doing their best in a broken system.
I think the above post really reflects the job creep of teaching over the last 20 years. Email, online grading systems, more demanding students and parents has really made teaching more difficult. Paperwork is more, we are expected to teach SEL, manage more behavior issues, deal with more ESOL and SpEd students. State and local testing regimes. We even do SATs during school hours now instead of on weekends like is was done 20 years ago. Expectations to run clubs and after school events.. It just feels like most of my job isn’t actually teaching. And I get dinged if I don’t do it. Whereas good teaching doesn’t get rewarded at all by the powers that be.
Also, we don't have a choice really in how our classrooms are run. As its been posted in other threads, the district's huge push right now is for small groups. So admin is on teachers to teach for 15-20 minutes max and then rotate small groups. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all. On top of it, admin seems to forget that teachers also need to manage their classroom during this time, so many times, the small group working with the teacher is routinely interrupted to put out fires happening around the rest of the classroom while the rest of the class works "independently." Small groups are absolutely beneficial but they should not be at the expense of solid, whole group instructional time.
This is probably a stupid question, but what if you just said no? What if you just did the small groups when you thought it made sense, or not run clubs, etc? What would happen if you just worked 8 hours a day, weekdays only, and after that called it quits?
I mean, what if you just refused to do something at your job? We can't just override the people "in charge" of us. However, we can quit if we feel like we aren't doing what is best for our students which is another reason I think a mass exodus from MCPS is definitely going to happen this year. MCPS is failing students and we are sick of helping facilitate that. I'd rather take a paycut to teach in a county that values real education, not just test scores.
DP
I work in government. If I refuse to do something at my job, my boss cannot force me to do it. I mean I guess they could literally hold a gun to my head, but that would be illegal.
Their options would be to not give a step increase, put me on a performance plan and maybe fire me. But firing is extremely rare and very difficult to do. I would really need to be causing them problems for them to actually pursue this. I often don't do things the way my boss told me to, because their direction did not make sense. They've never sanctioned me for that.
Of course, this isn't MCPS. But my point is short of threatening violence nobody can actually force someone else to do something. They can punish you for not doing something, you may as a result feel incentivized to do what they want, but they can't actually force you. I think that might be what the PP's question is getting at.
How clueless are you? Have you not been paying attention to the news at all? Teachers and admin are getting fired left and right in Florida for "not following the rules." It can and will happen. There are 9 weeks left. Most of us would rather just survive with a semblance of peace and get the heck out out of here in June.
So you think MCPS is going the way of Florida? Fascinating.
You truly are too stupid to deal with. It was an example of how right now, in the American educational system, just refusing to do your job won't fly. Maybe MCPS isn't at the degree Florida is now, but it's not easy to see why teachers can't just get away with doing whatever they want. That should have been obvious to you in the first place, but apparently, you're not exactly the brightest person.
I like how parents on these boards are simultaneously told not to tell teachers what to do (even if we are literally answering a question that was asked about our non teaching jobs, not telling anyone what to do) because we don't know enough about their jobs, and also expected to know everything about how your jobs work. Also shouting "BUT FLORIDA" is not informative or persuasive.
Bc the situations arent analogous. If I refuse to respond to parent emails, I will be dinged points on my evaluation; If I refuse to cover a class, I will be punished for not being a team player; If I refuse to attend a SPED meeting, again, points on my evaluation. Admin is able to weaponize our refusal against us.
Our teachers don’t respond. How would anyone know?
One of my kid's has a teacher who ignores our emails. So do I need to CC the principal to get a response then?
PS We only emailed them once ask if we could schedule a conference. When they didn't get back to us we tried again a few weeks later one more time.
What grade is your child in and what do you want? Do you realize how busy the teacher is and how much they are dreading having to meet with you when they could be doing something else? Imagine if every parent wanted conferences all the time. Send your kid to private school if you want that level of service. This is why the teacher is ignoring your email!
This is what frustrates parents. Wanting a conference with the teacher to discuss their child or heck even a weekly message about what is going on in class is the base level expectation that most parents have. Parent involvement starts with parents knowing what’s going on with their kid/the class.. The no news is good news isn’t helpful, especially when that isn’t explained. I’ve heard more than one parent describe school like a black hole they send their kid to. Very little information comes out, no one explains everything, but if something goes bad parents are expected to jump.
Prime example, the 100th day of school. My kids Kindergarten year(and honestly every year since) I was like why is this a thing. We didn’t celebrate 50, or 75, or even 90 which is half way through the year. So I had to ask a teacher family member because it made zero sense.
I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service.
You needed the 100 days of school celebration… explained to you? That tradition has been going on all over the country since like the 50s. Welcome to planet earth?
Also, of course they determine the level of involvment. That is part of their responsibility as a professsional. If I am working at a pizza shop, I'll let you pick your toppings but you can't come back and make the dough and spread out the sauce and cheese. What you mean to say is you want more involvement, which even you acknowledge would be an excessive burden on teachers.
What are you even talking about? Lay off the booze at lunch.
From PP
"I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service."
This block is just full of contradictions, "I'm easy going but I expect a response any time I have an issue" "You should be trusted but I don't trust you"
These are the exact parents that make us leave. The ones who will send the late night email saying "I know you're really busy but..."
Your response makes no sense. When do you expect parents to send email but in the evening/at night when they also finally have time? No one said you have to respond that night or even at 8am the next morning. Just in a reasonable timeframe. And yes, you’re trusted as educator but you still aren’t my child’s primary provider or even family so the level of trust is commensurate with the relationship. You’re a partner to parents in the education of their kid. Partners collaborate and answer the questions and concerns of their partners.
NP and not a teacher, but "partner" seems a reach. I mean, as much as I'm a partner to my doctor in my healthcare or a partner to my auto mechanic in addressing car trouble. One of us has expertise in the domain and the other doesn't. Seems like you feel entitled to a level of interaction with the teacher that isn't reasonable for any other professional relationship.
So your doctor gets to make the decisions on the healthcare of you or your child w/o explaining it to you? Because mine does not. That’s the whole point of documenting and discussing a care plan. Partnering together is the entire point of appointments and consultations, so that the physician can examine, make a diagnosis, discuss with the patient, and then answer and questions or concerns. Partnership between physician and patient is one of the biggest things that Physicians advocate for as they do it produces better results include greater preventive care. That doesn’t mean the doctor lacks expertise or isn’t trusted. It means they understand they need to build a level of personal trust with their patients.
Auto Mechanics do not do any work on a vehicle not specifically requested and approved by the car owner.
So based on the two examples above, parents are actually providing educators with more trust and leeway to perform the job based on their expertise. What they are requesting based on my post is communication and partnership.
The patient or vehicle is the child, not the parent.
So if I take my 8 year old to the doctor the doctor should discuss the issue with my child and not me, nor am I allowed to ask any questions? That sounds awful and wrong.
Teachers do this. They send home report cards, and hold parent teacher conferences. You just want more.
Report cards are often meaningless. Often teachers just give a grade without feedback. And parent conferences are in the fall only.
Especially in early ES. For example, my kid got straight A's and a C in art. Oddly she draws beautifully, but we have no clue what's up, especially since that teacher ignores email. Sure, it's probably random and doesn't matter but thought it might help to try and understand..
A generation ago, a parent would have asked their kid, “hey, what’s going on in art class? Any idea why you have a bad grade?” It’s very disappointing that today a parent concludes that it’s “random” and the teacher is at fault because she didn’t answer what I expect was a pretty accusatory email.
Odds are, your child refuses to do the assignment, and instead proclaims loudly that she “draws beautifully” and doesn’t need to listen to a teacher.
You do realize some of us pay attention. We can see the assignments and lessons online.
No you do not see elementary school art lessons online, which was the topic here
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
Then you engage them better and you notify parents that the assignment is not turned in. It sounds like the kids don’t have the basics in your class and you need to start there. If half the class is struggling what can you do different. It’s not just spoon feeding them.
Lol now you're an expert on classroom management too? Maybe you should quit whatever it is you do all day besides moan on DCUM and apply since you know everything already!
If half your class failed an assignment maybe something needs to change in what you are doing. If my kid isn’t doing their assignment as a teacher you let me know and it will get done.
You need to go into the classrooms. We need people like you who can solve all educational issues. In actuality, I don’t even know how to respond to your level of ignorance.
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
As a parent I wouldn’t blame you after this. The kid get the grade they deserve for not having turned in the assignment. Education requires both parties, a teacher and a student. I would ask, that you make it clear that the student didn’t turn in the assignment. Whether that be a Zero that parents can readily see, a note to indicate the child is receiving a zero and lower subject grade because of failure to turn in a district required assignment, or some other. Lastly I would hope that these types of results are being discussed amongst teams and with administrators so we can determine if lack of engagement of this assignment is a larger issue schoolwide and district wide or if there are a subset of students who need other support and intervention.
Indon’t think reasonable parents or administrators would blame you. Some may ask you to try different methods next time to see if there are different results, but that is experimentation with different tools.
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
As a parent I wouldn’t blame you after this. The kid get the grade they deserve for not having turned in the assignment. Education requires both parties, a teacher and a student. I would ask, that you make it clear that the student didn’t turn in the assignment. Whether that be a Zero that parents can readily see, a note to indicate the child is receiving a zero and lower subject grade because of failure to turn in a district required assignment, or some other. Lastly I would hope that these types of results are being discussed amongst teams and with administrators so we can determine if lack of engagement of this assignment is a larger issue schoolwide and district wide or if there are a subset of students who need other support and intervention.
Indon’t think reasonable parents or administrators would blame you. Some may ask you to try different methods next time to see if there are different results, but that is experimentation with different tools.
The school system requires 50% rule, not teachers but it does make it harder on parents.
Anonymous wrote:I think that biggest fallacy in this thread is that the class is made up of 30 students sitting nicely and actively engaged in each lesson. Following directions, practicing the skill and participating in guided feedback to improve. That is not what is happening. There is a portion of the class, completely unengaged. A portion of the class that is actively disrupting the class. And then there is the portion that is following directions and practicing the skills. We try our best to meet the needs of each and every student in the classroom, but it is impossible, especially now post-covid.
I had half my students not turn in their county required Common Writing Task for the marking period. We analyzed the documents together. I modified the assignment: gave them a model essay to use as guidance, sentence frames and paragraph frames, I took scribe from who ever wanted/needed. We wrote some of it together. I gave them time to write it in class. Half just didn't turn in the essay.
Flame away and blame me. And that is why teachers are walking away.
As a parent I wouldn’t blame you after this. The kid get the grade they deserve for not having turned in the assignment. Education requires both parties, a teacher and a student. I would ask, that you make it clear that the student didn’t turn in the assignment. Whether that be a Zero that parents can readily see, a note to indicate the child is receiving a zero and lower subject grade because of failure to turn in a district required assignment, or some other. Lastly I would hope that these types of results are being discussed amongst teams and with administrators so we can determine if lack of engagement of this assignment is a larger issue schoolwide and district wide or if there are a subset of students who need other support and intervention.
Indon’t think reasonable parents or administrators would blame you. Some may ask you to try different methods next time to see if there are different results, but that is experimentation with different tools.
School's not for everyone
We should provide better alternatives for those who aren't interested.
Anonymous wrote:I communicate regularly with parents as does my school. Many parents have made it clear that it’s too much and they don’t want it. One weekly email/Dojo message from me is too much. Oh well. We can’t win.
YOU communicate. For which I’m sure many parents are appreciative. However many teachers do not, for which many parents are not appreciative and frankly frustrated. I would advise over communication vs none. From over communication parties can come together to find a reasonable amount of communication for everyone and then those needing more information can reach out. However, when there is none, and parents are reaching out and being expected to follow the idea that no news is good news. No, no news is no news.
You “would advise?” Who asked for your “advice” on how to do their job?
Anonymous wrote:I am an mcps educator and send my kids to mcps public schools. What I am seeing is disheartening. Teachers are at their breaking point; the behaviors and needs of the kids are unbelievable; Many are quitting even after many years of service; We are hiring whoever we can get- probably subpar people because at this point we need warm bodies; The education is suffering- I see teachers playing a YouTube video of a book read aloud instead of reading the book themselves; Gym and art teachers running their class with videos instead of good direct instruction- I guess they are tired and this isn't forbidden; I work with my own kids on basic facts because I don't trust the system to do a good job. Too many needy kids, burnt out teachers, poor instructional approaches, a growing lack of resources...the list goes on anc on; I truly believe mcps is sinking ship and will continue to decline year over year
As a parent, we are at our breaking point too. Teachers who don’t teach, grade assignments, review assignments and give feedback, don’t return emails from students or parents and do the absolute minimum. My kids are in tutoring for some subjects more than the actual class time because of the lack of instruction and textbooks to teach your self. You need to work with parents instead of complaining and kids will not thrive without a good support system. And enough with the small group projects and discussions. Get back to teaching.
Teacher here and I can’t do any more than I’m doing. Seriously. I’m being asked to do the work of three people and I devote seven days a week to my job.
And my own kids? I tutor them for the reasons you mentioned above.
The difference between us is I’m not blaming their teachers for the deficiencies I see in their educations. I know those teachers are doing their best in a broken system.
I think the above post really reflects the job creep of teaching over the last 20 years. Email, online grading systems, more demanding students and parents has really made teaching more difficult. Paperwork is more, we are expected to teach SEL, manage more behavior issues, deal with more ESOL and SpEd students. State and local testing regimes. We even do SATs during school hours now instead of on weekends like is was done 20 years ago. Expectations to run clubs and after school events.. It just feels like most of my job isn’t actually teaching. And I get dinged if I don’t do it. Whereas good teaching doesn’t get rewarded at all by the powers that be.
Also, we don't have a choice really in how our classrooms are run. As its been posted in other threads, the district's huge push right now is for small groups. So admin is on teachers to teach for 15-20 minutes max and then rotate small groups. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all. On top of it, admin seems to forget that teachers also need to manage their classroom during this time, so many times, the small group working with the teacher is routinely interrupted to put out fires happening around the rest of the classroom while the rest of the class works "independently." Small groups are absolutely beneficial but they should not be at the expense of solid, whole group instructional time.
This is probably a stupid question, but what if you just said no? What if you just did the small groups when you thought it made sense, or not run clubs, etc? What would happen if you just worked 8 hours a day, weekdays only, and after that called it quits?
I mean, what if you just refused to do something at your job? We can't just override the people "in charge" of us. However, we can quit if we feel like we aren't doing what is best for our students which is another reason I think a mass exodus from MCPS is definitely going to happen this year. MCPS is failing students and we are sick of helping facilitate that. I'd rather take a paycut to teach in a county that values real education, not just test scores.
DP
I work in government. If I refuse to do something at my job, my boss cannot force me to do it. I mean I guess they could literally hold a gun to my head, but that would be illegal.
Their options would be to not give a step increase, put me on a performance plan and maybe fire me. But firing is extremely rare and very difficult to do. I would really need to be causing them problems for them to actually pursue this. I often don't do things the way my boss told me to, because their direction did not make sense. They've never sanctioned me for that.
Of course, this isn't MCPS. But my point is short of threatening violence nobody can actually force someone else to do something. They can punish you for not doing something, you may as a result feel incentivized to do what they want, but they can't actually force you. I think that might be what the PP's question is getting at.
How clueless are you? Have you not been paying attention to the news at all? Teachers and admin are getting fired left and right in Florida for "not following the rules." It can and will happen. There are 9 weeks left. Most of us would rather just survive with a semblance of peace and get the heck out out of here in June.
So you think MCPS is going the way of Florida? Fascinating.
You truly are too stupid to deal with. It was an example of how right now, in the American educational system, just refusing to do your job won't fly. Maybe MCPS isn't at the degree Florida is now, but it's not easy to see why teachers can't just get away with doing whatever they want. That should have been obvious to you in the first place, but apparently, you're not exactly the brightest person.
I like how parents on these boards are simultaneously told not to tell teachers what to do (even if we are literally answering a question that was asked about our non teaching jobs, not telling anyone what to do) because we don't know enough about their jobs, and also expected to know everything about how your jobs work. Also shouting "BUT FLORIDA" is not informative or persuasive.
Bc the situations arent analogous. If I refuse to respond to parent emails, I will be dinged points on my evaluation; If I refuse to cover a class, I will be punished for not being a team player; If I refuse to attend a SPED meeting, again, points on my evaluation. Admin is able to weaponize our refusal against us.
Our teachers don’t respond. How would anyone know?
One of my kid's has a teacher who ignores our emails. So do I need to CC the principal to get a response then?
PS We only emailed them once ask if we could schedule a conference. When they didn't get back to us we tried again a few weeks later one more time.
What grade is your child in and what do you want? Do you realize how busy the teacher is and how much they are dreading having to meet with you when they could be doing something else? Imagine if every parent wanted conferences all the time. Send your kid to private school if you want that level of service. This is why the teacher is ignoring your email!
This is what frustrates parents. Wanting a conference with the teacher to discuss their child or heck even a weekly message about what is going on in class is the base level expectation that most parents have. Parent involvement starts with parents knowing what’s going on with their kid/the class.. The no news is good news isn’t helpful, especially when that isn’t explained. I’ve heard more than one parent describe school like a black hole they send their kid to. Very little information comes out, no one explains everything, but if something goes bad parents are expected to jump.
Prime example, the 100th day of school. My kids Kindergarten year(and honestly every year since) I was like why is this a thing. We didn’t celebrate 50, or 75, or even 90 which is half way through the year. So I had to ask a teacher family member because it made zero sense.
I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service.
You needed the 100 days of school celebration… explained to you? That tradition has been going on all over the country since like the 50s. Welcome to planet earth?
Nope, grew up in the area, was a kindergartner roughly 35 years ago, this was NOT a thing. Additionally, we have a lot of parents not familiar with American instagram culture. Everything does not revolve around your version of planet earth.
Here, let me help you. Open Google and type “what is 100 day celebration school?”
But no, you’d rather be helpless and then complain.
Anonymous wrote:I am an mcps educator and send my kids to mcps public schools. What I am seeing is disheartening. Teachers are at their breaking point; the behaviors and needs of the kids are unbelievable; Many are quitting even after many years of service; We are hiring whoever we can get- probably subpar people because at this point we need warm bodies; The education is suffering- I see teachers playing a YouTube video of a book read aloud instead of reading the book themselves; Gym and art teachers running their class with videos instead of good direct instruction- I guess they are tired and this isn't forbidden; I work with my own kids on basic facts because I don't trust the system to do a good job. Too many needy kids, burnt out teachers, poor instructional approaches, a growing lack of resources...the list goes on anc on; I truly believe mcps is sinking ship and will continue to decline year over year
As a parent, we are at our breaking point too. Teachers who don’t teach, grade assignments, review assignments and give feedback, don’t return emails from students or parents and do the absolute minimum. My kids are in tutoring for some subjects more than the actual class time because of the lack of instruction and textbooks to teach your self. You need to work with parents instead of complaining and kids will not thrive without a good support system. And enough with the small group projects and discussions. Get back to teaching.
Teacher here and I can’t do any more than I’m doing. Seriously. I’m being asked to do the work of three people and I devote seven days a week to my job.
And my own kids? I tutor them for the reasons you mentioned above.
The difference between us is I’m not blaming their teachers for the deficiencies I see in their educations. I know those teachers are doing their best in a broken system.
I think the above post really reflects the job creep of teaching over the last 20 years. Email, online grading systems, more demanding students and parents has really made teaching more difficult. Paperwork is more, we are expected to teach SEL, manage more behavior issues, deal with more ESOL and SpEd students. State and local testing regimes. We even do SATs during school hours now instead of on weekends like is was done 20 years ago. Expectations to run clubs and after school events.. It just feels like most of my job isn’t actually teaching. And I get dinged if I don’t do it. Whereas good teaching doesn’t get rewarded at all by the powers that be.
Also, we don't have a choice really in how our classrooms are run. As its been posted in other threads, the district's huge push right now is for small groups. So admin is on teachers to teach for 15-20 minutes max and then rotate small groups. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all. On top of it, admin seems to forget that teachers also need to manage their classroom during this time, so many times, the small group working with the teacher is routinely interrupted to put out fires happening around the rest of the classroom while the rest of the class works "independently." Small groups are absolutely beneficial but they should not be at the expense of solid, whole group instructional time.
This is probably a stupid question, but what if you just said no? What if you just did the small groups when you thought it made sense, or not run clubs, etc? What would happen if you just worked 8 hours a day, weekdays only, and after that called it quits?
I mean, what if you just refused to do something at your job? We can't just override the people "in charge" of us. However, we can quit if we feel like we aren't doing what is best for our students which is another reason I think a mass exodus from MCPS is definitely going to happen this year. MCPS is failing students and we are sick of helping facilitate that. I'd rather take a paycut to teach in a county that values real education, not just test scores.
DP
I work in government. If I refuse to do something at my job, my boss cannot force me to do it. I mean I guess they could literally hold a gun to my head, but that would be illegal.
Their options would be to not give a step increase, put me on a performance plan and maybe fire me. But firing is extremely rare and very difficult to do. I would really need to be causing them problems for them to actually pursue this. I often don't do things the way my boss told me to, because their direction did not make sense. They've never sanctioned me for that.
Of course, this isn't MCPS. But my point is short of threatening violence nobody can actually force someone else to do something. They can punish you for not doing something, you may as a result feel incentivized to do what they want, but they can't actually force you. I think that might be what the PP's question is getting at.
How clueless are you? Have you not been paying attention to the news at all? Teachers and admin are getting fired left and right in Florida for "not following the rules." It can and will happen. There are 9 weeks left. Most of us would rather just survive with a semblance of peace and get the heck out out of here in June.
So you think MCPS is going the way of Florida? Fascinating.
You truly are too stupid to deal with. It was an example of how right now, in the American educational system, just refusing to do your job won't fly. Maybe MCPS isn't at the degree Florida is now, but it's not easy to see why teachers can't just get away with doing whatever they want. That should have been obvious to you in the first place, but apparently, you're not exactly the brightest person.
I like how parents on these boards are simultaneously told not to tell teachers what to do (even if we are literally answering a question that was asked about our non teaching jobs, not telling anyone what to do) because we don't know enough about their jobs, and also expected to know everything about how your jobs work. Also shouting "BUT FLORIDA" is not informative or persuasive.
Bc the situations arent analogous. If I refuse to respond to parent emails, I will be dinged points on my evaluation; If I refuse to cover a class, I will be punished for not being a team player; If I refuse to attend a SPED meeting, again, points on my evaluation. Admin is able to weaponize our refusal against us.
Our teachers don’t respond. How would anyone know?
One of my kid's has a teacher who ignores our emails. So do I need to CC the principal to get a response then?
PS We only emailed them once ask if we could schedule a conference. When they didn't get back to us we tried again a few weeks later one more time.
What grade is your child in and what do you want? Do you realize how busy the teacher is and how much they are dreading having to meet with you when they could be doing something else? Imagine if every parent wanted conferences all the time. Send your kid to private school if you want that level of service. This is why the teacher is ignoring your email!
This is what frustrates parents. Wanting a conference with the teacher to discuss their child or heck even a weekly message about what is going on in class is the base level expectation that most parents have. Parent involvement starts with parents knowing what’s going on with their kid/the class.. The no news is good news isn’t helpful, especially when that isn’t explained. I’ve heard more than one parent describe school like a black hole they send their kid to. Very little information comes out, no one explains everything, but if something goes bad parents are expected to jump.
Prime example, the 100th day of school. My kids Kindergarten year(and honestly every year since) I was like why is this a thing. We didn’t celebrate 50, or 75, or even 90 which is half way through the year. So I had to ask a teacher family member because it made zero sense.
I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service.
You needed the 100 days of school celebration… explained to you? That tradition has been going on all over the country since like the 50s. Welcome to planet earth?
Also, of course they determine the level of involvment. That is part of their responsibility as a professsional. If I am working at a pizza shop, I'll let you pick your toppings but you can't come back and make the dough and spread out the sauce and cheese. What you mean to say is you want more involvement, which even you acknowledge would be an excessive burden on teachers.
What are you even talking about? Lay off the booze at lunch.
From PP
"I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service."
This block is just full of contradictions, "I'm easy going but I expect a response any time I have an issue" "You should be trusted but I don't trust you"
These are the exact parents that make us leave. The ones who will send the late night email saying "I know you're really busy but..."
Your response makes no sense. When do you expect parents to send email but in the evening/at night when they also finally have time? No one said you have to respond that night or even at 8am the next morning. Just in a reasonable timeframe. And yes, you’re trusted as educator but you still aren’t my child’s primary provider or even family so the level of trust is commensurate with the relationship. You’re a partner to parents in the education of their kid. Partners collaborate and answer the questions and concerns of their partners.
NP and not a teacher, but "partner" seems a reach. I mean, as much as I'm a partner to my doctor in my healthcare or a partner to my auto mechanic in addressing car trouble. One of us has expertise in the domain and the other doesn't. Seems like you feel entitled to a level of interaction with the teacher that isn't reasonable for any other professional relationship.
Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you all have been spoiled from having nannies and daycares tell you about every meal and poop/pee. If the teachers spend time updating you about everything, they will never have time to lesson plan/grade, etc.
Exactly - some of them have over 100 students each semester. The expectations are insane.
No one is expecting a daily message from a teacher about every little thing their kid is doing. They do however want a weekly message in ES, especially K-2 about what the class is doing. They do want parent teacher conferences to meaningfully explain what the teacher is seeing in the student in their classroom and they do want them twice a year. They do want comments on the report card in MS. They do want someone to explain the schools traditions and activities and not assume that every new parent or student just miraculously knows. They do want to see evidence of the entire writing process from first draft through final production and see feedback from teachers.
But okay, we’ll act like parents are spoiled, and then be surprised when they send their kids to private or outside enrichment or worse stay in public and stop engaging.
Parent Teacher Conferences, for my 4 departmentalized ES math classes comprises of 80 kids and 15 minutes teach. That is 20 hours of time
When I taught MS math, my report card comments took about 5 minutes per kid. Not bad until you rememebr we have 150 kids. Thats 6.5 hours of time, 4 times per year (26 total hours)
From just two communication tasks you named, that is 46 work hours, or more than 1 week of work unpaid. Now add in all the other unpaid tasks we do and ask yourself again why we let things slip or just quit.
My school has 20 staff members out today. A teacher quit two days ago. We're just trying to hold on
In mcps? Why do you have so many out?
Job interviews, obviously!
Job interviews; trauma from another school shooting, burn out, who knows what else. Our principal already warned us that we're at critical capacity for Friday as well
MCPS did not have another school shooting and just because you are burnt out doesn't mean you get a day off. Most people are burnt out in their jobs. Maybe your principal should run the school better.
They most assuredly do “get a day off” by using a personal day, which 20 of their staff did indeed do today.
“You don’t get a day off?” Who the hell do you think you are?
Anonymous wrote:I am an mcps educator and send my kids to mcps public schools. What I am seeing is disheartening. Teachers are at their breaking point; the behaviors and needs of the kids are unbelievable; Many are quitting even after many years of service; We are hiring whoever we can get- probably subpar people because at this point we need warm bodies; The education is suffering- I see teachers playing a YouTube video of a book read aloud instead of reading the book themselves; Gym and art teachers running their class with videos instead of good direct instruction- I guess they are tired and this isn't forbidden; I work with my own kids on basic facts because I don't trust the system to do a good job. Too many needy kids, burnt out teachers, poor instructional approaches, a growing lack of resources...the list goes on anc on; I truly believe mcps is sinking ship and will continue to decline year over year
As a parent, we are at our breaking point too. Teachers who don’t teach, grade assignments, review assignments and give feedback, don’t return emails from students or parents and do the absolute minimum. My kids are in tutoring for some subjects more than the actual class time because of the lack of instruction and textbooks to teach your self. You need to work with parents instead of complaining and kids will not thrive without a good support system. And enough with the small group projects and discussions. Get back to teaching.
Teacher here and I can’t do any more than I’m doing. Seriously. I’m being asked to do the work of three people and I devote seven days a week to my job.
And my own kids? I tutor them for the reasons you mentioned above.
The difference between us is I’m not blaming their teachers for the deficiencies I see in their educations. I know those teachers are doing their best in a broken system.
I think the above post really reflects the job creep of teaching over the last 20 years. Email, online grading systems, more demanding students and parents has really made teaching more difficult. Paperwork is more, we are expected to teach SEL, manage more behavior issues, deal with more ESOL and SpEd students. State and local testing regimes. We even do SATs during school hours now instead of on weekends like is was done 20 years ago. Expectations to run clubs and after school events.. It just feels like most of my job isn’t actually teaching. And I get dinged if I don’t do it. Whereas good teaching doesn’t get rewarded at all by the powers that be.
Also, we don't have a choice really in how our classrooms are run. As its been posted in other threads, the district's huge push right now is for small groups. So admin is on teachers to teach for 15-20 minutes max and then rotate small groups. It's ridiculous and it's not helping at all. On top of it, admin seems to forget that teachers also need to manage their classroom during this time, so many times, the small group working with the teacher is routinely interrupted to put out fires happening around the rest of the classroom while the rest of the class works "independently." Small groups are absolutely beneficial but they should not be at the expense of solid, whole group instructional time.
This is probably a stupid question, but what if you just said no? What if you just did the small groups when you thought it made sense, or not run clubs, etc? What would happen if you just worked 8 hours a day, weekdays only, and after that called it quits?
I mean, what if you just refused to do something at your job? We can't just override the people "in charge" of us. However, we can quit if we feel like we aren't doing what is best for our students which is another reason I think a mass exodus from MCPS is definitely going to happen this year. MCPS is failing students and we are sick of helping facilitate that. I'd rather take a paycut to teach in a county that values real education, not just test scores.
DP
I work in government. If I refuse to do something at my job, my boss cannot force me to do it. I mean I guess they could literally hold a gun to my head, but that would be illegal.
Their options would be to not give a step increase, put me on a performance plan and maybe fire me. But firing is extremely rare and very difficult to do. I would really need to be causing them problems for them to actually pursue this. I often don't do things the way my boss told me to, because their direction did not make sense. They've never sanctioned me for that.
Of course, this isn't MCPS. But my point is short of threatening violence nobody can actually force someone else to do something. They can punish you for not doing something, you may as a result feel incentivized to do what they want, but they can't actually force you. I think that might be what the PP's question is getting at.
How clueless are you? Have you not been paying attention to the news at all? Teachers and admin are getting fired left and right in Florida for "not following the rules." It can and will happen. There are 9 weeks left. Most of us would rather just survive with a semblance of peace and get the heck out out of here in June.
So you think MCPS is going the way of Florida? Fascinating.
You truly are too stupid to deal with. It was an example of how right now, in the American educational system, just refusing to do your job won't fly. Maybe MCPS isn't at the degree Florida is now, but it's not easy to see why teachers can't just get away with doing whatever they want. That should have been obvious to you in the first place, but apparently, you're not exactly the brightest person.
I like how parents on these boards are simultaneously told not to tell teachers what to do (even if we are literally answering a question that was asked about our non teaching jobs, not telling anyone what to do) because we don't know enough about their jobs, and also expected to know everything about how your jobs work. Also shouting "BUT FLORIDA" is not informative or persuasive.
Bc the situations arent analogous. If I refuse to respond to parent emails, I will be dinged points on my evaluation; If I refuse to cover a class, I will be punished for not being a team player; If I refuse to attend a SPED meeting, again, points on my evaluation. Admin is able to weaponize our refusal against us.
Our teachers don’t respond. How would anyone know?
One of my kid's has a teacher who ignores our emails. So do I need to CC the principal to get a response then?
PS We only emailed them once ask if we could schedule a conference. When they didn't get back to us we tried again a few weeks later one more time.
What grade is your child in and what do you want? Do you realize how busy the teacher is and how much they are dreading having to meet with you when they could be doing something else? Imagine if every parent wanted conferences all the time. Send your kid to private school if you want that level of service. This is why the teacher is ignoring your email!
This is what frustrates parents. Wanting a conference with the teacher to discuss their child or heck even a weekly message about what is going on in class is the base level expectation that most parents have. Parent involvement starts with parents knowing what’s going on with their kid/the class.. The no news is good news isn’t helpful, especially when that isn’t explained. I’ve heard more than one parent describe school like a black hole they send their kid to. Very little information comes out, no one explains everything, but if something goes bad parents are expected to jump.
Prime example, the 100th day of school. My kids Kindergarten year(and honestly every year since) I was like why is this a thing. We didn’t celebrate 50, or 75, or even 90 which is half way through the year. So I had to ask a teacher family member because it made zero sense.
I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service.
You needed the 100 days of school celebration… explained to you? That tradition has been going on all over the country since like the 50s. Welcome to planet earth?
Also, of course they determine the level of involvment. That is part of their responsibility as a professsional. If I am working at a pizza shop, I'll let you pick your toppings but you can't come back and make the dough and spread out the sauce and cheese. What you mean to say is you want more involvement, which even you acknowledge would be an excessive burden on teachers.
What are you even talking about? Lay off the booze at lunch.
From PP
"I’m an easy going parent. I understand teachers are busy and respect the profession. However, I felt on more than one occasion like teachers want involvement but also want to be the ones that determine the level and type of involvement. Yes you should be trusted but at the same time you are a complete stranger to my child and definitely to me. My trust comes from the expectation that at any point I can reach out and expect a response. That when I feel like something is not right for my child we’ll partner together so we both have understanding and work towards the best result. While I understand you teacher are dealing with kids with bad behavior and no parental involvement, that problem should be raised loudly and consistently with Administrators, MCEA, and CO (everyday, multiple times a day if needed) until something is done. That doesn’t mean I nor my child should lower our expectations of quality educational service."
This block is just full of contradictions, "I'm easy going but I expect a response any time I have an issue" "You should be trusted but I don't trust you"
These are the exact parents that make us leave. The ones who will send the late night email saying "I know you're really busy but..."
Your response makes no sense. When do you expect parents to send email but in the evening/at night when they also finally have time? No one said you have to respond that night or even at 8am the next morning. Just in a reasonable timeframe. And yes, you’re trusted as educator but you still aren’t my child’s primary provider or even family so the level of trust is commensurate with the relationship. You’re a partner to parents in the education of their kid. Partners collaborate and answer the questions and concerns of their partners.
NP and not a teacher, but "partner" seems a reach. I mean, as much as I'm a partner to my doctor in my healthcare or a partner to my auto mechanic in addressing car trouble. One of us has expertise in the domain and the other doesn't. Seems like you feel entitled to a level of interaction with the teacher that isn't reasonable for any other professional relationship.
So your doctor gets to make the decisions on the healthcare of you or your child w/o explaining it to you? Because mine does not. That’s the whole point of documenting and discussing a care plan. Partnering together is the entire point of appointments and consultations, so that the physician can examine, make a diagnosis, discuss with the patient, and then answer and questions or concerns. Partnership between physician and patient is one of the biggest things that Physicians advocate for as they do it produces better results include greater preventive care. That doesn’t mean the doctor lacks expertise or isn’t trusted. It means they understand they need to build a level of personal trust with their patients.
Auto Mechanics do not do any work on a vehicle not specifically requested and approved by the car owner.
So based on the two examples above, parents are actually providing educators with more trust and leeway to perform the job based on their expertise. What they are requesting based on my post is communication and partnership.
The patient or vehicle is the child, not the parent.
So if I take my 8 year old to the doctor the doctor should discuss the issue with my child and not me, nor am I allowed to ask any questions? That sounds awful and wrong.
Teachers do this. They send home report cards, and hold parent teacher conferences. You just want more.
Report cards are often meaningless. Often teachers just give a grade without feedback. And parent conferences are in the fall only.
Fall is more than enough. Parents don't show up half the time or if they do, they are on their phones. Just as bad as the high schoolers are. You really don't get it. You ONLY see your point of view. Teachers have seen it ALL.
Yes, I see the point of view as a parent that teachers and parents need to work together to help students be successful. A 5-minute parent-teacher conference in the fall isn't much of anything. If a child starts to struggle mid-year or later, then a discussion is appropriate. You must teach elementary school which is very different. You do realize now that many things are online we can track what happens in class more easily and see where teachers like you are failing our kids. I have my child reach out 2-3 times and when that doesn't work, I get involved.
If you've seen it all, then handle your classroom better.
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