Teachers Resigning Like Crazy?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

Every time I read a declaration like this, I wonder. What qualifies as a disruptive kid? It’s it a one-time offender? A three-time? A wiggly, chatty kid who takes a lot of the teacher’s time for redirection? An ESOL student who gets frustrated? A yeller, or an eloper, or a class clown, or a puncher? All disruptive in different ways. Genuinely asking because I see huge challenges for this ahead. Who will make that call?

DP. I think the extremes can have some clear lines, even if the middle cases are judgment calls.

Th most clear situations are where there is real safety risk. The first time the rest of the class has to be evacuated from a room for safety, it should be considered. The second time, for the same child? That is too much of a safety risk and too disruptive to the other children's learning, which is equally important.

But that is the issue. Most classrooms don’t have the need to be evacuated due to one kid. It has certainly happened at our school but usually out of 20 classes, there might be 1-2 classes that have a kid like this. Most have disruptive behaviors where kids don’t shut up, refuse to do work, talk back to teachers, use inappropriate language, etc. I teach AAP and I have kids who literally talk all day and they need redirecting.

Sure. But why should the existence of cases in the gray zone prevent us from dealing with the clear-cut black & white cases? Why is the fact that there are some hard decisions prevent us from moving forward on the easy ones?

Start there. Then keep talking. But don't wait for the conversation to be finished before you do anything at all.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Also, did you pay the teacher to do this extra work reviewing Common App essays? That sounds sus

I'm not the PP to whom you're responding, but what's sus is you're trying to turn that post into something negative. Decent teachers who care about students do thinks like look at application essays and write letters of recommendation for college applications. Are you just totally ignorant of the fact that this happens all the time in high school and it's not something teachers would accept money for?

You just want to try to tar that PP because the PP had positive things to say about FCPS and that doesnt fit with your agenda to claim everything, everywhere is terrible.

NP.
I’m more than a “decent teacher.” I’m very good at what I do. Unfortunately, I have to prioritize my job over every other part of my life to be this good.

I’m tired of giving up my time for free. I easily work 20-25 extra hours a week in order to be an outstanding teacher. I have prioritized my students over my own children. No more.

I’m no longer staying late, arriving early, and doing extra work every single weekend. This extra work will be built into my day or it won’t get done.

And that's fine. But every teacher is not you.

I will tell you the majority of teachers at my school have had this conversation. Teachers are tired and their lives/families matter too.

Absolutely true. I haven't been teaching that long and I hear almost nothing but this in my department. We even have a colleague who is truly a teacher's teacher and recently won an outstanding teacher award and all she keeps saying is how she's tired of having to kill herself and neglect her family for students who don't do what they're supposed to do and she wishes she could quit, but she's too far in and can't.

We also have another one who is young and was hired in the middle of the year last year and is already finishing a degree in something else so she can get out.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

Every time I read a declaration like this, I wonder. What qualifies as a disruptive kid? It’s it a one-time offender? A three-time? A wiggly, chatty kid who takes a lot of the teacher’s time for redirection? An ESOL student who gets frustrated? A yeller, or an eloper, or a class clown, or a puncher? All disruptive in different ways. Genuinely asking because I see huge challenges for this ahead. Who will make that call?

DP. I think the extremes can have some clear lines, even if the middle cases are judgment calls.

Th most clear situations are where there is real safety risk. The first time the rest of the class has to be evacuated from a room for safety, it should be considered. The second time, for the same child? That is too much of a safety risk and too disruptive to the other children's learning, which is equally important.

But that is the issue. Most classrooms don’t have the need to be evacuated due to one kid. It has certainly happened at our school but usually out of 20 classes, there might be 1-2 classes that have a kid like this. Most have disruptive behaviors where kids don’t shut up, refuse to do work, talk back to teachers, use inappropriate language, etc. I teach AAP and I have kids who literally talk all day and they need redirecting.

Sure. But why should the existence of cases in the gray zone prevent us from dealing with the clear-cut black & white cases? Why is the fact that there are some hard decisions prevent us from moving forward on the easy ones?

Start there. Then keep talking. But don't wait for the conversation to be finished before you do anything at all.

DP. Did you not understand what she said? Because those classes are far from the majority of cases. I teach an AP class and in one section a good number of the kids are astonishingly rude, talking over me while I teach or staring at their phones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

DP. I have a DC who was sent to the office multiple times in lower elementary. It was not a reward. His behavior improved and he was no longer sent to the office - the discipline worked because he was inwardly terrified.

As a principal, I’ll say this is very much the exception and not the norm. I am sure you followed up with reasonable consequence or at least conversation at home. Most do not [/quote
]

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

DP. I have a DC who was sent to the office multiple times in lower elementary. It was not a reward. His behavior improved and he was no longer sent to the office - the discipline worked because he was inwardly terrified.

Bu TT for every child like yours, there’s another that doesn’t improve. I’ve had students act violently because they want to go to the office to avoid work.

Yes-Seeing this is a classroom I work in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

Every time I read a declaration like this, I wonder. What qualifies as a disruptive kid? It’s it a one-time offender? A three-time? A wiggly, chatty kid who takes a lot of the teacher’s time for redirection? An ESOL student who gets frustrated? A yeller, or an eloper, or a class clown, or a puncher? All disruptive in different ways. Genuinely asking because I see huge challenges for this ahead. Who will make that call?

DP. I think the extremes can have some clear lines, even if the middle cases are judgment calls.

Th most clear situations are where there is real safety risk. The first time the rest of the class has to be evacuated from a room for safety, it should be considered. The second time, for the same child? That is too much of a safety risk and too disruptive to the other children's learning, which is equally important.

But that is the issue. Most classrooms don’t have the need to be evacuated due to one kid. It has certainly happened at our school but usually out of 20 classes, there might be 1-2 classes that have a kid like this. Most have disruptive behaviors where kids don’t shut up, refuse to do work, talk back to teachers, use inappropriate language, etc. I teach AAP and I have kids who literally talk all day and they need redirecting.

Sure. But why should the existence of cases in the gray zone prevent us from dealing with the clear-cut black & white cases? Why is the fact that there are some hard decisions prevent us from moving forward on the easy ones?

Start there. Then keep talking. But don't wait for the conversation to be finished before you do anything at all.

DP. Did you not understand what she said? Because those classes are far from the majority of cases. I teach an AP class and in one section a good number of the kids are astonishingly rude, talking over me while I teach or staring at their phones.

Right. And why aren't those classes dealt with appropriately? As shown in this thread, people start to hem and haw and say "but, but, these other cases aren't so clear cut, and those are harder to deal with .."

Sure. But why are the OTHER clear-cut cases not dealt with? Nothing is changing. Stopping those smaller awful recurring cases shouldn't depend on whether you can figure out other things. Start there.

[Anonymous]

^^It's almost as if people want to waive their hands and not do anything because they can't fix everything.

We're in crisis. Start with the very few simple, easy, awful cases. At least fix something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

Every time I read a declaration like this, I wonder. What qualifies as a disruptive kid? It’s it a one-time offender? A three-time? A wiggly, chatty kid who takes a lot of the teacher’s time for redirection? An ESOL student who gets frustrated? A yeller, or an eloper, or a class clown, or a puncher? All disruptive in different ways. Genuinely asking because I see huge challenges for this ahead. Who will make that call?

DP. I think the extremes can have some clear lines, even if the middle cases are judgment calls.

Th most clear situations are where there is real safety risk. The first time the rest of the class has to be evacuated from a room for safety, it should be considered. The second time, for the same child? That is too much of a safety risk and too disruptive to the other children's learning, which is equally important.

But that is the issue. Most classrooms don’t have the need to be evacuated due to one kid. It has certainly happened at our school but usually out of 20 classes, there might be 1-2 classes that have a kid like this. Most have disruptive behaviors where kids don’t shut up, refuse to do work, talk back to teachers, use inappropriate language, etc. I teach AAP and I have kids who literally talk all day and they need redirecting.

Agree, and there's not possible way / reason / legal way to move kids like this out of a regular classrom. The constant redirection for smart-mouth, rude kids is far more than physical disruptions.

And yet highly disruptive to a teacher being able to teach. My DD talks about one kid in her room every day. She tells us how this student interrupts the teacher, talks over the teacher, gets up constantly clowning around. Our DD said the teacher looks tired and is constantly with that student. No one is learning when a teacher has to deal with this all day. And I'll say this I think DD's teacher is amazing but she is not a miracle worker. These disruptive behaviors whether they are violent or not are just that disruptive to teaching and learning. It's not ok. This is happening in most classes and we can't ignore that. I don't know what the answer is but kids who are doing the right things and trying to learn are losing out daily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

Every time I read a declaration like this, I wonder. What qualifies as a disruptive kid? It’s it a one-time offender? A three-time? A wiggly, chatty kid who takes a lot of the teacher’s time for redirection? An ESOL student who gets frustrated? A yeller, or an eloper, or a class clown, or a puncher? All disruptive in different ways. Genuinely asking because I see huge challenges for this ahead. Who will make that call?

DP. I think the extremes can have some clear lines, even if the middle cases are judgment calls.

Th most clear situations are where there is real safety risk. The first time the rest of the class has to be evacuated from a room for safety, it should be considered. The second time, for the same child? That is too much of a safety risk and too disruptive to the other children's learning, which is equally important.

But that is the issue. Most classrooms don’t have the need to be evacuated due to one kid. It has certainly happened at our school but usually out of 20 classes, there might be 1-2 classes that have a kid like this. Most have disruptive behaviors where kids don’t shut up, refuse to do work, talk back to teachers, use inappropriate language, etc. I teach AAP and I have kids who literally talk all day and they need redirecting.

Sure. But why should the existence of cases in the gray zone prevent us from dealing with the clear-cut black & white cases? Why is the fact that there are some hard decisions prevent us from moving forward on the easy ones?

Start there. Then keep talking. But don't wait for the conversation to be finished before you do anything at all.

DP. Did you not understand what she said? Because those classes are far from the majority of cases. I teach an AP class and in one section a good number of the kids are astonishingly rude, talking over me while I teach or staring at their phones.

DP. This is what happens when parents refuse to impose or enforce consequences for bad behavior and school districts tout BS goals like "zero discipline referrals" and punish teachers who refer students. The kids know they can talk back, cuss, use their phones, and do no work and there will be no negative consequences at school or at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

I’m a teacher and I have a kid who is in a class with a kid that has meltdowns requiring evacuation. The kid was in his class last year, too. It’s incredibly frustrating, but I’m not sure that expulsion is the answer. The kid clearly needs to be in a CSS classroom, but the reality is that there isnt the staffing (or enough people out there willing and capable of doing the job) for all the needed classrooms. Add in a bunch of parents who bring in advocates and lawsuits to keep their kid in a gen ed classroom, and it’s an impossible situation. The hardest situations are those where a kid is on grade level, but disruptive. When you put kids in small CSS type classes, they often feed off of each other and make each others behaviors worse. There aren’t “psychiatric treatment centers” for these kids. Many need intensive therapy, but they also need an education.

Yes...SPED shortage is real and CSS is often understaffed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

I’m a teacher and I have a kid who is in a class with a kid that has meltdowns requiring evacuation. The kid was in his class last year, too. It’s incredibly frustrating, but I’m not sure that expulsion is the answer. The kid clearly needs to be in a CSS classroom, but the reality is that there isnt the staffing (or enough people out there willing and capable of doing the job) for all the needed classrooms. Add in a bunch of parents who bring in advocates and lawsuits to keep their kid in a gen ed classroom, and it’s an impossible situation. The hardest situations are those where a kid is on grade level, but disruptive. When you put kids in small CSS type classes, they often feed off of each other and make each others behaviors worse. There aren’t “psychiatric treatment centers” for these kids. Many need intensive therapy, but they also need an education.

Principal here again… this connects with another theme that I’ve seen over several decades… the special education apparatus is simple out of control and horribly skewed toward protecting students and families. One of the reasons that these students can’t be “expelled” or “removed from the classroom” is that it is illegal without the parents’ consent in Virginia if the student has an IEP. Unfortunately this leads to us having to resort to endless amounts of check sheets and paperwork to justify a need for an intensive placement, only for parents to say “Nah we’re good with your school” in the IEP meeting. I am all for having students receive an education in their least restrictive environment, but it’s gone way too far and now many of these students have learned that there are no ramifications for their behavior because mommy and daddy (and their lawyer) don’t care

+1
SPED teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^It's almost as if people want to waive their hands and not do anything because they can't fix everything.

We're in crisis. Start with the very few simple, easy, awful cases. At least fix something.

Then you go lobby Congress, state legislatures, your school boards and your schools to change the policy spaghetti that has gotten us to this point. Teachers' hands are tied. What you'll find is that people are always in favor of expelling other people's children but that the school clearly isn't doing what's required for THEIR kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^It's almost as if people want to waive their hands and not do anything because they can't fix everything.

We're in crisis. Start with the very few simple, easy, awful cases. At least fix something.

Then you go lobby Congress, state legislatures, your school boards and your schools to change the policy spaghetti that has gotten us to this point. Teachers' hands are tied. What you'll find is that people are always in favor of expelling other people's children but that the school clearly isn't doing what's required for THEIR kid.

I know. And I think that there is a kind of blanket approach that everything must be accommodated, but that once there are some real consequences in place, the rest will be easier to address.

Which is why I think change is going to start with the extreme outliers that almost everyone can agree on. It's not going to start by dithering around and fiddling our fingers over the less obvious ones. I think you are wasting your time there, at least until we get some change of any sort broken open first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

Every time I read a declaration like this, I wonder. What qualifies as a disruptive kid? It’s it a one-time offender? A three-time? A wiggly, chatty kid who takes a lot of the teacher’s time for redirection? An ESOL student who gets frustrated? A yeller, or an eloper, or a class clown, or a puncher? All disruptive in different ways. Genuinely asking because I see huge challenges for this ahead. Who will make that call?

NP but a few incidents come to mind in my children's school:
1. A child who routinely was physically violent and threw things at other children to the point where the class had a "safe word" - if the teacher said the safe word, the children were to go into one of the other grade-level classrooms that they were each assigned to. After my child had a chair thrown at her (that she was able to block with her hands, thankfully), we asked for her to be moved (because they wouldn't move him).
2. One child in my other child's classroom who routinely runs out of the classroom, and the teacher has to call admin to chase him or someone to come watch the kids while she goes and chases him. He has escaped the school more than once. My child reports that the teacher is so frustrated by him that she sometimes has to call someone to watch the kids so she can go out into the hallway to cry. Child 2 has reported walking past her while she was in the hallway crying. This is NOT okay. No wonder teachers are quitting! My job has made me cry before, but never to this extent, that's for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:so those of us who have kids who still have a while to graduate but can't afford private schools? what do we do? I encourage my kids to read (they love reading), they take math enrichment...but what else? Is this also an issue with kids in honors and IB/AP classes?

Nope. My kids have been in AAP since 3rd, 1 is about to graduate with a full IB diploma, the other is in 10th taking AP classes. They are at 2 different schools. The senior pupil placed to an IB Scchool. The Board reads like fiction to me. My kids and their peers are studious and motivated and teachers love them. Teachers will reach out to me unsolicited about my kids with positive messages. I think I'm more the norm than this board would have you believe.

3 teachers my kids had in the past have since left FCPS, the rest have remained. All of the 3 that left, still keep in contact with my kids and my family. 2 of the 3 that left, along with his current English teacher, helped review my oldests's college/scholarship essays.

It's not fair that schools only focus on AAP/IP/AP children. My child is not AAP smart, but she's a hard worker, she doesn't ask for screen time, she doesn't watch a lot of TV, she's super well behaved but she's an average kid, she's in general education stuck with the poorly behaved kids and if you want to talk about a child who is COMPLETELY ignored and is falling behind because of inclusion/ADHD kids/ESOL kids/etc in the class, that's MY KID. We spend thousands on tutors because she's not learning anything in school. We got her tested because we thought maybe she had a learning disability or something, but no, she's just a perfectly normal, average child who isn't getting taught anything because her teachers are too busy with troubled kids and all the smart kids were sorted into AAP where they get all sorts of special treatment, special lessons, no disruption. IT'S NOT FAIR.

p.s. Not Catholic, we can't afford expensive private schools, we're just plain screwed.

I'm not sure what you want here. A class for only the super nice kids? It does stink that your kid isn't getting enough out of school, but lowering the bar for everyone is not the solution.

I don't think that's what the poster meant. I think they, like a lot of people, are fed up with their kids getting screwed over for being "normal." If the kid isn't smart enough for AAP, or protected by a 504/IEP, they are totally screwed. Gen Ed classes are dominated by children who should not be included in a general education classroom-- disruptive behavior issues that suck up all the teacher's time and attention. But any time anyone suggests this is a valid issue, you get people screaming about how their precious monster is entitled to be in the classroom and has a right to be disruptive and no one can suggest otherwise because of their "disability." And suggesting that a child with a disruptive disability should be in a separate classroom with more support somehow makes you ableist and evil and advocating for all disabilities to be excluded. Why arent normal kids entitled to FAPE?

I look at my grade level and none of the SPED kids are disruptive. All of our disruptive kids are the academically normal ones or ESOL students.

What consequences do they get?

Sometimes being moved to a different classroom. Getting sent to office. Sometimes in school suspension. In other grades there are SPED kids with behavior issues but the majority of the kids who are behavior problems aren’t SPED.

It doesn't matter if they are SPED or not, disruptive kids need to get kicked out of the classroom. There needs to be consequences -- I don't see or hear about anything that you're mentioning. I know that kids who get sent to the office just sit there and color or chat with the principal. It's like a reward to them. I have literally NEVER heard of a kid at our school getting suspended and we're talking about chair throwers and kids who have hurt other children. They're back the next day. The only kids that get moved are the victims, which is totally unfair. Kids are less likely to complain and tell their kids if they know it means they'll have to move to a different classroom. My kid flat out told me this.

This is exactly right. DEMAND that disruptive kids are expelled.

Schools are not psychiatric treatment centers.

Every time I read a declaration like this, I wonder. What qualifies as a disruptive kid? It’s it a one-time offender? A three-time? A wiggly, chatty kid who takes a lot of the teacher’s time for redirection? An ESOL student who gets frustrated? A yeller, or an eloper, or a class clown, or a puncher? All disruptive in different ways. Genuinely asking because I see huge challenges for this ahead. Who will make that call?

DP. I think the extremes can have some clear lines, even if the middle cases are judgment calls.

Th most clear situations are where there is real safety risk. The first time the rest of the class has to be evacuated from a room for safety, it should be considered. The second time, for the same child? That is too much of a safety risk and too disruptive to the other children's learning, which is equally important.

But that is the issue. Most classrooms don’t have the need to be evacuated due to one kid. It has certainly happened at our school but usually out of 20 classes, there might be 1-2 classes that have a kid like this. Most have disruptive behaviors where kids don’t shut up, refuse to do work, talk back to teachers, use inappropriate language, etc. I teach AAP and I have kids who literally talk all day and they need redirecting.

Sure. But why should the existence of cases in the gray zone prevent us from dealing with the clear-cut black & white cases? Why is the fact that there are some hard decisions prevent us from moving forward on the easy ones?

Start there. Then keep talking. But don't wait for the conversation to be finished before you do anything at all.

DP. Did you not understand what she said? Because those classes are far from the majority of cases. I teach an AP class and in one section a good number of the kids are astonishingly rude, talking over me while I teach or staring at their phones.

Right. And why aren't those classes dealt with appropriately? As shown in this thread, people start to hem and haw and say "but, but, these other cases aren't so clear cut, and those are harder to deal with .."

Sure. But why are the OTHER clear-cut cases not dealt with? Nothing is changing. Stopping those smaller awful recurring cases shouldn't depend on whether you can figure out other things. Start there.

Because as the principal above says, if the student has an IEP, the parent has to agree to another placement. And many, many parents refuse to have their kid moved to a center program.