What is a "donut hole family"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are a donut hole family. Kid with health condition meant one parent stayed home for longer than planned when kids were only hypothetical. Then one parent had cancer. More time away from the workforce. We are all okay now and both parents work full time and have decent incomes, but that’s only been for the past 2 years and college is close. We’ve saved what we could, lived in a small place, don’t have a lot of luxuries, but if we’d both been able to work since our child was a baby at a comparable income to what we have now, we’d have far more saved.

So don’t be so quick to judge - some of us are doing the best we can under tough circumstances. Will definitely be considering schools that can give merit aid, etc. No decent in-state option in DC. We will figure it out. And we don’t expect to be looking at schools that only give need-based aid.

Zero judgement. If you have not already, read The Price You Pay For College. If your kid is a strong student, Pitt is a great option that gives merit that can be combined with DC TAG, applying early is key for merit aid. It will be under 40K/year for our DC and an excellent school with happy kids. Still waiting on other decisions but it is a good value and strong contender. There are also some DC specific scholarships such as the posse scholarship.

Funny you mentioned Pitt - our nephew plans to go there! Got significant merit aid plus just loved the campus and it’s a good fit all around. Happy to hear there are some good options!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Typically a family that makes more than what qualifies for need-based aid but not enough *income* to pay tuition out of pocket without it having a huge impact on their lifestyle. Usually they don’t want to liquidate assets to make up the gap.

And they should not have to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being able to save for college is an absolute luxury. One of the only reasons we didn't drown in our 30s financially was because my DH and I were able to pay off our own college costs with some help from family.

If you are still paying you own student loans, it is tough to find cash to sock away for your kids. Especially since college savings should never come before retirement savings. How many Americans do you think have $1M in retirement savings? I'll answer that: VERY FEW.

Are college costs insane? Yes. If you are rich (making over $200k is RICH) does anyone feel bad for you? NO.

Those who are making $200 K and have a child of college age, have not been making $200 K for long, ourselves included. No way to save enough for private school, but private schools think we can afford $82k annually

So realize that there are plenty of schools (both private and public) just below the elite level and many offer great merit. So you can't afford $82K. So focus on finding the best you can afford. Even if you can afford it, many many many smart, highly talented kids with 4.0UW and 1550+ don't get into a T20 school. It's life. You are not entitled to anything. If you are really so smart, you should know that where you go does not matter as much as what you do when you get there (as well as if you can do it while not going into any or major debt). Your kid will do better if they are not straddled with debt and are not mentally stressed because they are not going to an elite school.

Oh please. First of all, there aren't THAT many of high quality schools that offer "great merit." Who are you to lecture people on what they should be required to expect or want? It's not "entitlement" it is the expectation that you save, your kid works their a$$ off . . . 20 years ago those kids and family could go to lots of schools (and pay for it) and a) not only may they not get it, b) if you do, you couldn't pay for it without liquidating the hardly extraordinary savings you've built up.

I had a conversation with a friend who recommended the school he went to for my child. And it would be a great fit for my kid. But I had to tell him that at $85K/year (including room and board), and NO merit aid given by this school, we would not be able to swing it w/o sacrificing . . . well pretty much everything and saving nothing else for 4 years of school (as well as liquidating what we have). And forget about any unforeseen complications: supporting parents, serious medical problems, loss of job. He was completely shocked and taken aback by that number and sorely disappointed in his alma mater. He even called a friend on the board to talk to him about it. He was not thrilled that there would be families like ours who wouldn't even apply to this school solely b/c we are in that big, fat donut hole.

Maybe save your sanctimony, PP, for things you actually know about. Dick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being able to save for college is an absolute luxury. One of the only reasons we didn't drown in our 30s financially was because my DH and I were able to pay off our own college costs with some help from family.

If you are still paying you own student loans, it is tough to find cash to sock away for your kids. Especially since college savings should never come before retirement savings. How many Americans do you think have $1M in retirement savings? I'll answer that: VERY FEW.

Are college costs insane? Yes. If you are rich (making over $200k is RICH) does anyone feel bad for you? NO.

Those who are making $200 K and have a child of college age, have not been making $200 K for long, ourselves included. No way to save enough for private school, but private schools think we can afford $82k annually

So realize that there are plenty of schools (both private and public) just below the elite level and many offer great merit. So you can't afford $82K. So focus on finding the best you can afford. Even if you can afford it, many many many smart, highly talented kids with 4.0UW and 1550+ don't get into a T20 school. It's life. You are not entitled to anything. If you are really so smart, you should know that where you go does not matter as much as what you do when you get there (as well as if you can do it while not going into any or major debt). Your kid will do better if they are not straddled with debt and are not mentally stressed because they are not going to an elite school.

Oh please. First of all, there aren't THAT many of high quality schools that offer "great merit." Who are you to lecture people on what they should be required to expect or want? It's not "entitlement" it is the expectation that you save, your kid works their a$$ off . . . 37 years ago those kids and family could go to lots of schools (and pay for it) and a) not only may they not get it, b) if you do, you couldn't pay for it without liquidating the hardly extraordinary savings you've built up.

I had a conversation with a friend who recommended the school he went to for my child. And it would be a great fit for my kid. But I had to tell him that at $85K/year (including room and board), and NO merit aid given by this school, we would not be able to swing it w/o sacrificing . . . well pretty much everything and saving nothing else for 4 years of school (as well as liquidating what we have). And forget about any unforeseen complications: supporting parents, serious medical problems, loss of job. He was completely shocked and taken aback by that number and sorely disappointed in his alma mater. He even called a friend on the board to talk to him about it. He was not thrilled that there would be families like ours who wouldn't even apply to this school solely b/c we are in that big, fat donut hole.

Maybe save your sanctimony, PP, for things you actually know about. Dick.

[Anonymous]

Why should I pay for your child to go to school so that you do not have to liquidate your assets? I know it is hard but the entitlement. Wow.

I am really furious the public school my child goes to is not as good as Sidwell Friends. I cannot afford 50K/year for high school. It is just wrong. 30 years ago the tuition was about 8K/year and someone with my and DH’s jobs could have afforded it. This is crazy!! How can anyone sleep at night??

[Anonymous]

It’s not that donut hole families feel entitled, it’s that elite colleges aren’t even an option. Full stop. Wealthy families can afford them; poor families can afford them if they get aid. Donut hole families get to apply just to see if they can get in, knowing that they won’t attend because they can’t pay for it. But I also think this includes a lot of not-so-elite schools. A lot of state school cost over $60k/year for OOS students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not that donut hole families feel entitled, it’s that elite colleges aren’t even an option. Full stop. Wealthy families can afford them; poor families can afford them if they get aid. Donut hole families get to apply just to see if they can get in, knowing that they won’t attend because they can’t pay for it. But I also think this includes a lot of not-so-elite schools. A lot of state school cost over $60k/year for OOS students.

These “donut hole families” can afford instate public flagship state schools with no loans. I don’t think a lot of people realize how expensive those are even instate in many states, especially in the northeast.

Schools like Penn State, UMass Amherst, Rutgers, UVM offer very, very little in the way of financial aid for instate students.

The kids who qualify for financial aid today from elite schools would have to take out significant loans to go to the schools (instate) I listed above in most cases.

[Anonymous]

My family is a donut hole family. I understand that these choices are hard. But the U.S. system has created a pathway for any student that wants a college education to acquire and afford it. It may mean starting out in CC and working your way through school in the instance of some families (whether for financial or academic reasons). It also means that the very best/most talented students from families without the means to pay can get free tuition at the nations most select colleges. It also means that families that can afford to pay for state subsidized universities but not more cannot afford to go to the most elite without making some very hard choices.

We have limited resources to support higher education in this country. I would like to know what the options for lowering the cost of college are that would not involve nationalizing elite colleges.

What about this problem is not, in fact, a belief by the donut hole families (myself included) that we should be entitled to have these resources priced at the same level as state universities (which, by the way, vary greatly in price).

[Anonymous]

The biggest issue IMO is that states have stopped supporting their public universities the way they used to. State universities should not be so unaffordable to most students. Private schools can do whatever they want but if they were competing against more affordable state Us for good students there would be some competitive pressure to keep the price hikes down. But, really, with all the discounting going on the actual price people pay for private Us, on average, has not gone up that much. The real growth in price paid is at public Us as state legislatures gutted their support of higher ed. Yes, you can pay $80K for a private university but that is a choice. Anyone doing that certainly had other, more affordable options.

We are fortunate in this area that there are nearby, good universities like GMU and UMD-CP where students can live at home to minimize cost. But plenty of kids live in areas where they do not have those options.

[Anonymous]

I live in a neighborhood full of true donut hole families. I would say household incomes are 100k - 150k.
Kids in my neighborhood are driving themselves to GMU.
Very few are going OOS, and those that are are going to schools that are highly undesirable here on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in a neighborhood full of true donut hole families. I would say household incomes are 100k - 150k.
Kids in my neighborhood are driving themselves to GMU.
Very few are going OOS, and those that are are going to schools that are highly undesirable here on DCUM.

These are the families that actually qualify for financial aid at private colleges. There are many places that are seeking out strong students with need, so the elite colleges that are the subject of this thread are actually more affordable to them than to families with incomes of $250K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being able to save for college is an absolute luxury. One of the only reasons we didn't drown in our 30s financially was because my DH and I were able to pay off our own college costs with some help from family.

If you are still paying you own student loans, it is tough to find cash to sock away for your kids. Especially since college savings should never come before retirement savings. How many Americans do you think have $1M in retirement savings? I'll answer that: VERY FEW.

Are college costs insane? Yes. If you are rich (making over $200k is RICH) does anyone feel bad for you? NO.

Those who are making $200 K and have a child of college age, have not been making $200 K for long, ourselves included. No way to save enough for private school, but private schools think we can afford $82k annually

So realize that there are plenty of schools (both private and public) just below the elite level and many offer great merit. So you can't afford $82K. So focus on finding the best you can afford. Even if you can afford it, many many many smart, highly talented kids with 4.0UW and 1550+ don't get into a T20 school. It's life. You are not entitled to anything. If you are really so smart, you should know that where you go does not matter as much as what you do when you get there (as well as if you can do it while not going into any or major debt). Your kid will do better if they are not straddled with debt and are not mentally stressed because they are not going to an elite school.

Oh please. First of all, there aren't THAT many of high quality schools that offer "great merit." Who are you to lecture people on what they should be required to expect or want? It's not "entitlement" it is the expectation that you save, your kid works their a$$ off . . . 20 years ago those kids and family could go to lots of schools (and pay for it) and a) not only may they not get it, b) if you do, you couldn't pay for it without liquidating the hardly extraordinary savings you've built up.

I had a conversation with a friend who recommended the school he went to for my child. And it would be a great fit for my kid. But I had to tell him that at $85K/year (including room and board), and NO merit aid given by this school, we would not be able to swing it w/o sacrificing . . . well pretty much everything and saving nothing else for 4 years of school (as well as liquidating what we have). And forget about any unforeseen complications: supporting parents, serious medical problems, loss of job. He was completely shocked and taken aback by that number and sorely disappointed in his alma mater. He even called a friend on the board to talk to him about it. He was not thrilled that there would be families like ours who wouldn't even apply to this school solely b/c we are in that big, fat donut hole.

Maybe save your sanctimony, PP, for things you actually know about. Dick.

Low class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being able to save for college is an absolute luxury. One of the only reasons we didn't drown in our 30s financially was because my DH and I were able to pay off our own college costs with some help from family.

If you are still paying you own student loans, it is tough to find cash to sock away for your kids. Especially since college savings should never come before retirement savings. How many Americans do you think have $1M in retirement savings? I'll answer that: VERY FEW.

Are college costs insane? Yes. If you are rich (making over $200k is RICH) does anyone feel bad for you? NO.

Those who are making $200 K and have a child of college age, have not been making $200 K for long, ourselves included. No way to save enough for private school, but private schools think we can afford $82k annually

So realize that there are plenty of schools (both private and public) just below the elite level and many offer great merit. So you can't afford $82K. So focus on finding the best you can afford. Even if you can afford it, many many many smart, highly talented kids with 4.0UW and 1550+ don't get into a T20 school. It's life. You are not entitled to anything. If you are really so smart, you should know that where you go does not matter as much as what you do when you get there (as well as if you can do it while not going into any or major debt). Your kid will do better if they are not straddled with debt and are not mentally stressed because they are not going to an elite school.

Oh please. First of all, there aren't THAT many of high quality schools that offer "great merit." Who are you to lecture people on what they should be required to expect or want? It's not "entitlement" it is the expectation that you save, your kid works their a$$ off . . . 20 years ago those kids and family could go to lots of schools (and pay for it) and a) not only may they not get it, b) if you do, you couldn't pay for it without liquidating the hardly extraordinary savings you've built up.

I had a conversation with a friend who recommended the school he went to for my child. And it would be a great fit for my kid. But I had to tell him that at $85K/year (including room and board), and NO merit aid given by this school, we would not be able to swing it w/o sacrificing . . . well pretty much everything and saving nothing else for 4 years of school (as well as liquidating what we have). And forget about any unforeseen complications: supporting parents, serious medical problems, loss of job. He was completely shocked and taken aback by that number and sorely disappointed in his alma mater. He even called a friend on the board to talk to him about it. He was not thrilled that there would be families like ours who wouldn't even apply to this school solely b/c we are in that big, fat donut hole.

Maybe save your sanctimony, PP, for things you actually know about. Dick.

“Dick”? Really? Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being able to save for college is an absolute luxury. One of the only reasons we didn't drown in our 30s financially was because my DH and I were able to pay off our own college costs with some help from family.

If you are still paying you own student loans, it is tough to find cash to sock away for your kids. Especially since college savings should never come before retirement savings. How many Americans do you think have $1M in retirement savings? I'll answer that: VERY FEW.

Are college costs insane? Yes. If you are rich (making over $200k is RICH) does anyone feel bad for you? NO.

Those who are making $200 K and have a child of college age, have not been making $200 K for long, ourselves included. No way to save enough for private school, but private schools think we can afford $82k annually

So realize that there are plenty of schools (both private and public) just below the elite level and many offer great merit. So you can't afford $82K. So focus on finding the best you can afford. Even if you can afford it, many many many smart, highly talented kids with 4.0UW and 1550+ don't get into a T20 school. It's life. You are not entitled to anything. If you are really so smart, you should know that where you go does not matter as much as what you do when you get there (as well as if you can do it while not going into any or major debt). Your kid will do better if they are not straddled with debt and are not mentally stressed because they are not going to an elite school.

Oh please. First of all, there aren't THAT many of high quality schools that offer "great merit." Who are you to lecture people on what they should be required to expect or want? It's not "entitlement" it is the expectation that you save, your kid works their a$$ off . . . 20 years ago those kids and family could go to lots of schools (and pay for it) and a) not only may they not get it, b) if you do, you couldn't pay for it without liquidating the hardly extraordinary savings you've built up.

I had a conversation with a friend who recommended the school he went to for my child. And it would be a great fit for my kid. But I had to tell him that at $85K/year (including room and board), and NO merit aid given by this school, we would not be able to swing it w/o sacrificing . . . well pretty much everything and saving nothing else for 4 years of school (as well as liquidating what we have). And forget about any unforeseen complications: supporting parents, serious medical problems, loss of job. He was completely shocked and taken aback by that number and sorely disappointed in his alma mater. He even called a friend on the board to talk to him about it. He was not thrilled that there would be families like ours who wouldn't even apply to this school solely b/c we are in that big, fat donut hole.

Maybe save your sanctimony, PP, for things you actually know about. Dick.

Low class.

+1000

It’s especially hilarious that PP is connected enough to have pull with board members of a desirable private college and still has an oppression complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being able to save for college is an absolute luxury. One of the only reasons we didn't drown in our 30s financially was because my DH and I were able to pay off our own college costs with some help from family.

If you are still paying you own student loans, it is tough to find cash to sock away for your kids. Especially since college savings should never come before retirement savings. How many Americans do you think have $1M in retirement savings? I'll answer that: VERY FEW.

Are college costs insane? Yes. If you are rich (making over $200k is RICH) does anyone feel bad for you? NO.

Those who are making $200 K and have a child of college age, have not been making $200 K for long, ourselves included. No way to save enough for private school, but private schools think we can afford $82k annually

So realize that there are plenty of schools (both private and public) just below the elite level and many offer great merit. So you can't afford $82K. So focus on finding the best you can afford. Even if you can afford it, many many many smart, highly talented kids with 4.0UW and 1550+ don't get into a T20 school. It's life. You are not entitled to anything. If you are really so smart, you should know that where you go does not matter as much as what you do when you get there (as well as if you can do it while not going into any or major debt). Your kid will do better if they are not straddled with debt and are not mentally stressed because they are not going to an elite school.

Oh please. First of all, there aren't THAT many of high quality schools that offer "great merit." Who are you to lecture people on what they should be required to expect or want? It's not "entitlement" it is the expectation that you save, your kid works their a$$ off . . . 20 years ago those kids and family could go to lots of schools (and pay for it) and a) not only may they not get it, b) if you do, you couldn't pay for it without liquidating the hardly extraordinary savings you've built up.

I had a conversation with a friend who recommended the school he went to for my child. And it would be a great fit for my kid. But I had to tell him that at $85K/year (including room and board), and NO merit aid given by this school, we would not be able to swing it w/o sacrificing . . . well pretty much everything and saving nothing else for 4 years of school (as well as liquidating what we have). And forget about any unforeseen complications: supporting parents, serious medical problems, loss of job. He was completely shocked and taken aback by that number and sorely disappointed in his alma mater. He even called a friend on the board to talk to him about it. He was not thrilled that there would be families like ours who wouldn't even apply to this school solely b/c we are in that big, fat donut hole.

Maybe save your sanctimony, PP, for things you actually know about. Dick.

“Dick”? Really? Grow up.

I reported that post due to the language (yesterday).