IEP re-evaluation: What can we expect?

[Anonymous]

A bit of background - DS (now 5) received an IEP for developmental delay: social/emotional about a year ago and went to the local DCPS for speech/social skills therapy once a week. However, his teachers at his private preschool kept raising issues with his general social skills. They expressed concerns that while DS had the basics (turn-taking, sharing, participation), he did not demonstrate a range of social behaviors expected of a 5 year old. In particular, they mentioned the lack of fluidity in conversation, some rigidity, limited ability to read emotional cues etc and requested a re-evaluation from DCPS Early Stages, with a school visit.

We just finished that process and received the report in advance of the eligibility meeting. Early Stages administered the usual IQ tests (WISC where DS was in the 80% percentile for FSIQ), a Woodcock-Johnson Achievement Test (where he was >99% percentile throughout) and the CELF (average for expressive/receptive language). They also asked the teachers to fill out the SRS/GAD forms and the teacher's responses put him in the range for an ASD. Our responses in these forms rated him outside this range. Moreover a previous dev. ped. evaluation and ADOS did not place DS on the spectrum. The Early Stages school visit noticed some issues but commented that they were not as severe as considered by the teachers.

So at this point what can we realistically ask for as he goes to K this fall? There was a mention in the report that a child cannot get an IEP solely for developmental delay- social/emotional. Clearly at this point he has no trouble accessing the curriculum. He is reading fluently, has good comprehension, does 2nd grade math in his head. TIA.

[Anonymous]

What would you like to happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would you like to happen?

At the very least, continue his social skills/speech sessions. I am not sure much more can be done but the real question is whether DS would be eligible for lunch bunch/pullout services when he starts K. I know it is a long way away, but I am not sure that there will be another round of evaluations after DS joins school.

[Anonymous]

I have a similar kid with Asperger's who was diagnosed at 4. Our developmental pediatrician who does a school observation, ADOS at Children's, school's psych ed eval and neuropsych at Stixrud at 6 yrs old all places him on the spectrum. He has no academic issues, attends a language immersion school, etc.

In first grade, he gets under ASD designation: 10 hrs/wk of Sp Ed support, all push-in; OT and speech/social skills class 1 hr/wk. OT is push-in.

I would go with the teachers' responses since he has to function at school.

[Anonymous]

So he does not have a speech delay, correct? He also doesn't have global developmental delays. The teacher says autism, your responses didn't indicate that. Do you think he could be on the spectrum? One thing I often tell parents is to look at these questionnaires in relation to an IEP: Does he make eye contact when requesting something at least 7 out of 10 times? Does he read emotions correctly at least 7 out of 10 times? These are just examples. The teachers are able to see him directly compared to his peers, and perhaps he doesn't exhibit the same "symptoms" of ASD when he is at home. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion, many high-functioning children pass the ADOS initially and do not show symptoms until the social demands increase beyond what they are able to cope with. My child passed the ADOS initially, but she was diagnosed a year later and reconfirmed 3 years after that.

I am not saying he DOES have autism, he may just have some traits. It strikes me though that the teachers have such a different perception than you do.

What will happen? Unless they give him the educational diagnosis of autism, he will likely not qualify for an IEP anymore. He doesn't have significant enough delays for the DD label and he does not have other health issues. Pretty much the only way to get an IEP for pragmatic speech and social skills is through the autism diagnosis, because his issues do not interfere with academics. Pullout services for lunch are next to impossible to get at most DCPS. You may get it unofficially, but they do not usually want to commit to this on an IEP.

You may need to supplement privately, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he does not have a speech delay, correct? He also doesn't have global developmental delays. The teacher says autism, your responses didn't indicate that. Do you think he could be on the spectrum? One thing I often tell parents is to look at these questionnaires in relation to an IEP: Does he make eye contact when requesting something at least 7 out of 10 times? Does he read emotions correctly at least 7 out of 10 times? These are just examples. The teachers are able to see him directly compared to his peers, and perhaps he doesn't exhibit the same "symptoms" of ASD when he is at home. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion, many high-functioning children pass the ADOS initially and do not show symptoms until the social demands increase beyond what they are able to cope with. My child passed the ADOS initially, but she was diagnosed a year later and reconfirmed 3 years after that.

I am not saying he DOES have autism, he may just have some traits. It strikes me though that the teachers have such a different perception than you do.

What will happen? Unless they give him the educational diagnosis of autism, he will likely not qualify for an IEP anymore. He doesn't have significant enough delays for the DD label and he does not have other health issues. Pretty much the only way to get an IEP for pragmatic speech and social skills is through the autism diagnosis, because his issues do not interfere with academics. Pullout services for lunch are next to impossible to get at most DCPS. You may get it unofficially, but they do not usually want to commit to this on an IEP.

You may need to supplement privately, unfortunately.

OP here. Thanks. This helps a lot and is pretty much as we expected. We'll try and set up a follow up at KKI and possibly an NIH study to see if he does fall on the spectrum, which might help him qualify for an IEP if needed. As you said, these "symptoms" are reduced, even nearly absent at home. What works in terms of supplementing privately? Social skills groups, soccer, other group activities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he does not have a speech delay, correct? He also doesn't have global developmental delays. The teacher says autism, your responses didn't indicate that. Do you think he could be on the spectrum? One thing I often tell parents is to look at these questionnaires in relation to an IEP: Does he make eye contact when requesting something at least 7 out of 10 times? Does he read emotions correctly at least 7 out of 10 times? These are just examples. The teachers are able to see him directly compared to his peers, and perhaps he doesn't exhibit the same "symptoms" of ASD when he is at home. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion, many high-functioning children pass the ADOS initially and do not show symptoms until the social demands increase beyond what they are able to cope with. My child passed the ADOS initially, but she was diagnosed a year later and reconfirmed 3 years after that.

I am not saying he DOES have autism, he may just have some traits. It strikes me though that the teachers have such a different perception than you do.

What will happen? Unless they give him the educational diagnosis of autism, he will likely not qualify for an IEP anymore. He doesn't have significant enough delays for the DD label and he does not have other health issues. Pretty much the only way to get an IEP for pragmatic speech and social skills is through the autism diagnosis, because his issues do not interfere with academics. Pullout services for lunch are next to impossible to get at most DCPS. You may get it unofficially, but they do not usually want to commit to this on an IEP.

You may need to supplement privately, unfortunately.

OP here. Thanks. This helps a lot and is pretty much as we expected. We'll try and set up a follow up at KKI and possibly an NIH study to see if he does fall on the spectrum, which might help him qualify for an IEP if needed. As you said, these "symptoms" are reduced, even nearly absent at home. What works in terms of supplementing privately? Social skills groups, soccer, other group activities?

10:57. Have you ever observed your child at school? When I first observed my kid at school, I was shocked, a completely different kid from the one I saw at home. This is very common for kids with Asperger's. Our developmental pediatrician, Dr Shapiro, told me this was one of the main reasons he always did a school observation. Most people who meet my kid one-on-one never suspect he's on the spectrum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So he does not have a speech delay, correct? He also doesn't have global developmental delays. The teacher says autism, your responses didn't indicate that. Do you think he could be on the spectrum? One thing I often tell parents is to look at these questionnaires in relation to an IEP: Does he make eye contact when requesting something at least 7 out of 10 times? Does he read emotions correctly at least 7 out of 10 times? These are just examples. The teachers are able to see him directly compared to his peers, and perhaps he doesn't exhibit the same "symptoms" of ASD when he is at home. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion, many high-functioning children pass the ADOS initially and do not show symptoms until the social demands increase beyond what they are able to cope with. My child passed the ADOS initially, but she was diagnosed a year later and reconfirmed 3 years after that.

I am not saying he DOES have autism, he may just have some traits. It strikes me though that the teachers have such a different perception than you do.

What will happen? Unless they give him the educational diagnosis of autism, he will likely not qualify for an IEP anymore. He doesn't have significant enough delays for the DD label and he does not have other health issues. Pretty much the only way to get an IEP for pragmatic speech and social skills is through the autism diagnosis, because his issues do not interfere with academics. Pullout services for lunch are next to impossible to get at most DCPS. You may get it unofficially, but they do not usually want to commit to this on an IEP.

You may need to supplement privately, unfortunately.

The above is basically what happened to us. My DD tested in typical range for expressive/receptive for speech (while sitting in my lap) but had very limited pragmatic speech, would not talk at daycare, will not respond to direct questions. Her EI speech therapist recommended continuing services, believing that DD needed continued social support and probably has some processing issues. At our IEP hearing the district SLP yelled at me "I cannot in good conscience say that this is a disabled child!" and they told us about a thousand times that she's shy, and we were denied. The only good thing is that since we're arranging our own services we can be more picky and choose those most tailored to her needs.

[Anonymous]

If his issues are social / emotional and are severe, he may qualify for "emotional disturbance" IEP. I know it sounds awful. We have one and that does get us access to social skills group, counseling, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
10:57. Have you ever observed your child at school? When I first observed my kid at school, I was shocked, a completely different kid from the one I saw at home. This is very common for kids with Asperger's. Our developmental pediatrician, Dr Shapiro, told me this was one of the main reasons he always did a school observation. Most people who meet my kid one-on-one never suspect he's on the spectrum.

OP here. Yes, frequently. At drop-offs and during free play, he's tentative, often at the margins. Other children sometimes acknowledge him but oftentimes not. Earlier, he would always ask his peers for permission to join or invite them to join what he was doing. Now he's a bit more inclined to just insert himself. But at pickups, he's in the middle of things, playing with 2-3 other kids, offering suggestions for play, goofing around with his peers, more or less doing what the others are. One-on-one playdates go fine. He rarely leads but joins in enthusiastically. He's fine with simple games -- building structures to "catch bad guys" and the like. Complex games with plots are where he appears to get lost. He eventually catches up, but by then, the game has moved on. Also, I don't see the effortless banter from him that I see in other children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he does not have a speech delay, correct? He also doesn't have global developmental delays. The teacher says autism, your responses didn't indicate that. Do you think he could be on the spectrum? One thing I often tell parents is to look at these questionnaires in relation to an IEP: Does he make eye contact when requesting something at least 7 out of 10 times? Does he read emotions correctly at least 7 out of 10 times? These are just examples. The teachers are able to see him directly compared to his peers, and perhaps he doesn't exhibit the same "symptoms" of ASD when he is at home. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion, many high-functioning children pass the ADOS initially and do not show symptoms until the social demands increase beyond what they are able to cope with. My child passed the ADOS initially, but she was diagnosed a year later and reconfirmed 3 years after that.

I am not saying he DOES have autism, he may just have some traits. It strikes me though that the teachers have such a different perception than you do.

What will happen? Unless they give him the educational diagnosis of autism, he will likely not qualify for an IEP anymore. He doesn't have significant enough delays for the DD label and he does not have other health issues. Pretty much the only way to get an IEP for pragmatic speech and social skills is through the autism diagnosis, because his issues do not interfere with academics. Pullout services for lunch are next to impossible to get at most DCPS. You may get it unofficially, but they do not usually want to commit to this on an IEP.

You may need to supplement privately, unfortunately.

OP here. Thanks. This helps a lot and is pretty much as we expected. We'll try and set up a follow up at KKI and possibly an NIH study to see if he does fall on the spectrum, which might help him qualify for an IEP if needed. As you said, these "symptoms" are reduced, even nearly absent at home. What works in terms of supplementing privately? Social skills groups, soccer, other group activities?

10:57. Have you ever observed your child at school? When I first observed my kid at school, I was shocked, a completely different kid from the one I saw at home. This is very common for kids with Asperger's. Our developmental pediatrician, Dr Shapiro, told me this was one of the main reasons he always did a school observation. Most people who meet my kid one-on-one never suspect he's on the spectrum.

PP initially quoted here, I agree with PP, it was actually Dr. Shapiro who confirmed the ASD diagnosis in my DD, because it became most apparent when she was around her peers. I wouldn't give up on fighting for an IEP just yet, if I were you. Intervention works best when it is used universally. While you may not initially qualify for an IEP, you can certainly alert the school about the concerns the teachers had and request a re-evaluation if they persist. Additionally, if you get private evaluations that put him on the spectrum, you can take these to the special ed coordinator and re-initiate the process.

As far as private supplementation goes, I would definitely start with social skills groups and speech therapy that focuses on pragmatic speech issues. Soccer is a good idea, but it will likely not specifically target the issues mentioned above. I think that any child would benefit from being active, though, so it can't hurt! Definitely try to observe your son in the classroom, it may indeed change what you would have put down in the questionnaire. Does he have any anxiety or sensory issues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If his issues are social / emotional and are severe, he may qualify for "emotional disturbance" IEP. I know it sounds awful. We have one and that does get us access to social skills group, counseling, etc.

OP, please do NOT get him an ED IEP! The issues you might face down the road could be of catastrophic consequence, and it doesn't sound like your son is severe at all! He may need help, but nothing that would justify this label. I know a fair share of children with this label, and believe me, they have severe needs and many more behavioral difficulties that often stem from traumatic childhoods. Schools could turn a child with that diagnosis down because it requires a level of resources that not all schools have.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I do want express my appreciation for all the help, advice and support extended on this forum. While none of DS' issues have been severe, there has always been a slow burn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
10:57. Have you ever observed your child at school? When I first observed my kid at school, I was shocked, a completely different kid from the one I saw at home. This is very common for kids with Asperger's. Our developmental pediatrician, Dr Shapiro, told me this was one of the main reasons he always did a school observation. Most people who meet my kid one-on-one never suspect he's on the spectrum.

OP here. Yes, frequently. At drop-offs and during free play, he's tentative, often at the margins. Other children sometimes acknowledge him but oftentimes not. Earlier, he would always ask his peers for permission to join or invite them to join what he was doing. Now he's a bit more inclined to just insert himself. But at pickups, he's in the middle of things, playing with 2-3 other kids, offering suggestions for play, goofing around with his peers, more or less doing what the others are. One-on-one playdates go fine. He rarely leads but joins in enthusiastically. He's fine with simple games -- building structures to "catch bad guys" and the like. Complex games with plots are where he appears to get lost. He eventually catches up, but by then, the game has moved on. Also, I don't see the effortless banter from him that I see in other children.

My DS with Asperger's does not look all that different from his peers at this point. He has a group of good friends in first grade and does not stick out but I would really urge you to keep trying for an IEP. I've found it invaluable to have a Sp Ed teacher responsible for how he is getting along and to bring up any issues that concern me. The IEP puts the entire school on notice about my DS's issues. Also, it's hard to beat social skills class with the same peers he has to use it with and free, no driving... DS has no behavior problems or academic issues and I hope he never loses his IEP.

GL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I do want express my appreciation for all the help, advice and support extended on this forum. While none of DS' issues have been severe, there has always been a slow burn.

Here's another thing you can do: Contact Early Stages before the eligibility meeting and tell them you are VERY concerned and that the more you think about it the more you think he might be on the spectrum. They may reconsider and give him the diagnosis. I know, it is sad that we have to label when there may still be doubts, but it sounds to me as though your son would really benefit from services and that down the road his issues may persist and increase if he is not being helped. You could also consider hiring an advocate.

Nothing is final, OP, this can also be re-visited. It really comes down to how concerned you are that he may struggle (not academically but peer relationships) if you don't get him an IEP before he enters K. It also depends on the school. Some schools are extremely good at providing what a child needs even without an IEP.