IEP re-evaluation: What can we expect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
10:57. Have you ever observed your child at school? When I first observed my kid at school, I was shocked, a completely different kid from the one I saw at home. This is very common for kids with Asperger's. Our developmental pediatrician, Dr Shapiro, told me this was one of the main reasons he always did a school observation. Most people who meet my kid one-on-one never suspect he's on the spectrum.

OP here. Yes, frequently. At drop-offs and during free play, he's tentative, often at the margins. Other children sometimes acknowledge him but oftentimes not. Earlier, he would always ask his peers for permission to join or invite them to join what he was doing. Now he's a bit more inclined to just insert himself. But at pickups, he's in the middle of things, playing with 2-3 other kids, offering suggestions for play, goofing around with his peers, more or less doing what the others are. One-on-one playdates go fine. He rarely leads but joins in enthusiastically. He's fine with simple games -- building structures to "catch bad guys" and the like. Complex games with plots are where he appears to get lost. He eventually catches up, but by then, the game has moved on. Also, I don't see the effortless banter from him that I see in other children.

My DS with Asperger's does not look all that different from his peers at this point. He has a group of good friends in first grade and does not stick out but I would really urge you to keep trying for an IEP. I've found it invaluable to have a Sp Ed teacher responsible for how he is getting along and to bring up any issues that concern me. The IEP puts the entire school on notice about my DS's issues. Also, it's hard to beat social skills class with the same peers he has to use it with and free, no driving... DS has no behavior problems or academic issues and I hope he never loses his IEP.

GL!

PP, you and I think alike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If his issues are social / emotional and are severe, he may qualify for "emotional disturbance" IEP. I know it sounds awful. We have one and that does get us access to social skills group, counseling, etc.

OP, please do NOT get him an ED IEP! The issues you might face down the road could be of catastrophic consequence, and it doesn't sound like your son is severe at all! He may need help, but nothing that would justify this label. I know a fair share of children with this label, and believe me, they have severe needs and many more behavioral difficulties that often stem from traumatic childhoods. Schools could turn a child with that diagnosis down because it requires a level of resources that not all schools have.

PP, your post is making me very nervous! We just signed an ED IEP for my child so he can get the social skills and other support he needs. I didn't want it, but it was the only thing he qualified for. He doesn't have a traumatic childhood but he has low frustration tolerance and can be aggressive. I don't want him to be known as the "kid who hits," so I want to get him as much support as possible ASAP. How can a public school turn down my child? Of course he's already in school. With support (informally implemented before IEP), he's doing a world better. Pre-support, he was melting down left and right. PLEASE tell me what the catastrophic consequences are...I was told I could pull the IEP at any time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If his issues are social / emotional and are severe, he may qualify for "emotional disturbance" IEP. I know it sounds awful. We have one and that does get us access to social skills group, counseling, etc.

OP, please do NOT get him an ED IEP! The issues you might face down the road could be of catastrophic consequence, and it doesn't sound like your son is severe at all! He may need help, but nothing that would justify this label. I know a fair share of children with this label, and believe me, they have severe needs and many more behavioral difficulties that often stem from traumatic childhoods. Schools could turn a child with that diagnosis down because it requires a level of resources that not all schools have.

PP, your post is making me very nervous! We just signed an ED IEP for my child so he can get the social skills and other support he needs. I didn't want it, but it was the only thing he qualified for. He doesn't have a traumatic childhood but he has low frustration tolerance and can be aggressive. I don't want him to be known as the "kid who hits," so I want to get him as much support as possible ASAP. How can a public school turn down my child? Of course he's already in school. With support (informally implemented before IEP), he's doing a world better. Pre-support, he was melting down left and right. PLEASE tell me what the catastrophic consequences are...I was told I could pull the IEP at any time.

I would ask them to revise it to Other Health rather than ED. The problem with the ED label is the stigma that comes with it. I will post a link to a paper below that explains it pretty well. You cannot pull the IEP at any time, you can disagree with it, but the IEP does not disappear, it stays on file. Even if you take it away, the minute he is aggressive again, you will find yourself pressured to label him ED again, and teachers may actually look at him in a negative way rather than supporting him. Do you think he is emotionally disturbed? Does he have any other diagnosis, such as ADHD? Anxiety?


http://www.emich.edu/coe/powerplay/documents/vol_02/no_01/ppj_vol_02_no_01_sayman.pdf

http://escholarship.org/uc/item/5734n13w#page-4

http://www.behavioradvisor.com/InclusionOfEBD.html

http://smhp.psych.ucla.edu/netexchange.aspx?tag=445

[Anonymous]

Special Ed teacher here--
The correct designation for ED now is Emotional Disability--we no longer use the word disturbed in the diagnostic language.

Also, the best "label" or eligibility category for a child is the one that best describes their needs and matches the type of services and support they need.

Also, public schools cannot refuse a child with any disability, but the system may recommend supporting them in a school other than the neighborhood school if the IEP warrants it--not all school buildings have the same specially trained staff or equipment. The goals and services outlined in the IEP are really what drive the placement decision, not the label.

I work with many children who have ED labels or services and who are currently in their neighborhood school. As long as we can ensure that we are addressing their behavior and social/emotional issues and keeping them safe, we strive to keep them in the least restrictive setting, which is the school they would attend based on their address. However, there are some children whose behavior is so erratic or intense that there may be another setting that can better meet their needs--one with more of a behavioral focus, additional staff, full-time therapist, etc. Not necessarily a bad thing if what you really want if for your child to work through those challenges.

OHI (Other Health Impaired) requires a medical diagnosis that you can document as impacting the child's ability to achieve in school. The most common is ADHD, but I have also seen parents use seizure disorders or more psychological diagnoses to fit that category, such as OCD, ODD, or IED (intermitten exposive disorder).

Many parents seek to avoid both the Aut and the ED classification and try to use OHI as a blanket eligibility category. OHI can be seen as a more neutral option, but in my opinion it can also mask what the real issue is with a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Special Ed teacher here--
The correct designation for ED now is Emotional Disability--we no longer use the word disturbed in the diagnostic language.

Also, the best "label" or eligibility category for a child is the one that best describes their needs and matches the type of services and support they need.

Also, public schools cannot refuse a child with any disability, but the system may recommend supporting them in a school other than the neighborhood school if the IEP warrants it--not all school buildings have the same specially trained staff or equipment. The goals and services outlined in the IEP are really what drive the placement decision, not the label.

I work with many children who have ED labels or services and who are currently in their neighborhood school. As long as we can ensure that we are addressing their behavior and social/emotional issues and keeping them safe, we strive to keep them in the least restrictive setting, which is the school they would attend based on their address. However, there are some children whose behavior is so erratic or intense that there may be another setting that can better meet their needs--one with more of a behavioral focus, additional staff, full-time therapist, etc. Not necessarily a bad thing if what you really want if for your child to work through those challenges.

OHI (Other Health Impaired) requires a medical diagnosis that you can document as impacting the child's ability to achieve in school. The most common is ADHD, but I have also seen parents use seizure disorders or more psychological diagnoses to fit that category, such as OCD, ODD, or IED (intermitten exposive disorder).

Many parents seek to avoid both the Aut and the ED classification and try to use OHI as a blanket eligibility category. OHI can be seen as a more neutral option, but in my opinion it can also mask what the real issue is with a child.

PP here, do you have a link for that? All my sources say that these terms CAN be used interchangeably, but the common use is still emotional disturbance.

http://nichcy.org/disability/specific/emotionaldisturbance

A child with ED and an IEP can be placed in ED classrooms if the placement team feels this is the only environment appropriate, whether the child actually has an ED or not. I am not saying that this WILL happen, but it can. I am sure you are a great teacher at a great school, but there are definitely schools who will claim that they cannot serve a child with that diagnosis, I have seen it happen. Yes, most of the time, the children did need more intervention and they had other factors that led to the label, but it can be devastating for a child who has behavior issues that stem from ADHD or other disorders. PP has not stated that and I do not know her child, but I would still recommend to absolutely be certain that the label fits. It may be no issue for you as a teacher, but I can assure you that it is an issue for the child and the parents if this is randomly attached without there being a definite emotional disability/disturbance.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, PP. I know, it's so troubling, but I would think that if he gets the services and support he needs, he would be less likely to be labeled as the "kid who hits", which is of course what I want.

Your links are definitely troubling, though the UCLA one provides some comfort (he can access any service if he is IDEA-qualified). I'm also troubled that I can't "pull the IEP at any time." Maybe they just meant I can refuse services?

Nobody is proposing putting him in a self-contained classroom, thank goodness. I don't even think his school has any (he is at a DC charter). They say they just want to support him and he doesn't qualify for any other way to get services. All his teachers say he's made great strides, compared to the beginning of the school year (now with informal supports in place).

He "didn't quite" make the diagnosis of ADHD/hyperactive-impulsive type. Think if his behavior were a bit worse, he'd make ADHD criteria! When he's aggressive, it's impulsive, not planned...he also had Low Average working memory skills and Average on processing speed.

I don't think he's "emotionally disturbed", but I think he's emotionally fragile and behind on development of some social-emotional skills.

Apparently DC does not allow 'developmental delay' classification strictly for social-emotional issues, while the federal law does (and MoCo does). This is the same problem that OP faces. I can and will ask about "Other Health Impaired".

Cross-posting with Special Ed teacher, thanks for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, PP. I know, it's so troubling, but I would think that if he gets the services and support he needs, he would be less likely to be labeled as the "kid who hits", which is of course what I want.

Your links are definitely troubling, though the UCLA one provides some comfort (he can access any service if he is IDEA-qualified). I'm also troubled that I can't "pull the IEP at any time." Maybe they just meant I can refuse services?

Nobody is proposing putting him in a self-contained classroom, thank goodness. I don't even think his school has any (he is at a DC charter). They say they just want to support him and he doesn't qualify for any other way to get services. All his teachers say he's made great strides, compared to the beginning of the school year (now with informal supports in place).

He "didn't quite" make the diagnosis of ADHD/hyperactive-impulsive type. Think if his behavior were a bit worse, he'd make ADHD criteria! When he's aggressive, it's impulsive, not planned...he also had Low Average working memory skills and Average on processing speed.

I don't think he's "emotionally disturbed", but I think he's emotionally fragile and behind on development of some social-emotional skills.

Apparently DC does not allow 'developmental delay' classification strictly for social-emotional issues, while the federal law does (and MoCo does). This is the same problem that OP faces. I can and will ask about "Other Health Impaired".

Cross-posting with Special Ed teacher, thanks for this.

PP here, so it does sound like the school is doing a great job, and they tried to use another label. I would continue to seek evaluations, especially when you say his behavior is impulsive vs. planned, that's actually much more ADHD than ED! In the end, what matters most is the support, but if at any point someone suggests ADHD, I would ask for the change. As the special ed teacher pointed out, you do need a diagnosis for OHI.

Sorry OP, for hijacking your thread!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If his issues are social / emotional and are severe, he may qualify for "emotional disturbance" IEP. I know it sounds awful. We have one and that does get us access to social skills group, counseling, etc.

OP, please do NOT get him an ED IEP! The issues you might face down the road could be of catastrophic consequence, and it doesn't sound like your son is severe at all! He may need help, but nothing that would justify this label. I know a fair share of children with this label, and believe me, they have severe needs and many more behavioral difficulties that often stem from traumatic childhoods. Schools could turn a child with that diagnosis down because it requires a level of resources that not all schools have.

NP here. My son just got Development delay dropped and Emotional Disability added for his anxiety during specials in first grade. Can you tell me what is catastrophic with this label? I am now worried, we actually thought it is an improvement. He did not qualify for the ADOS as well and previously had speech language and social delays, which school testing reveals that he has caught up with.
We dont have an IEP yet for Emotional disability and have no clue what kind of support they are planning to give.

[Anonymous]

The developmental delay designation can only be used up to age 6. For 7 yr olds and older, the designation has to be autism, OHI, emotional disability, etc.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I would not worry too much what designation the school is using to provide services and supports in the IEP as long as the services and supports the school provides is what your child needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, PP. I know, it's so troubling, but I would think that if he gets the services and support he needs, he would be less likely to be labeled as the "kid who hits", which is of course what I want.

Your links are definitely troubling, though the UCLA one provides some comfort (he can access any service if he is IDEA-qualified). I'm also troubled that I can't "pull the IEP at any time." Maybe they just meant I can refuse services?

Nobody is proposing putting him in a self-contained classroom, thank goodness. I don't even think his school has any (he is at a DC charter). They say they just want to support him and he doesn't qualify for any other way to get services. All his teachers say he's made great strides, compared to the beginning of the school year (now with informal supports in place).

He "didn't quite" make the diagnosis of ADHD/hyperactive-impulsive type. Think if his behavior were a bit worse, he'd make ADHD criteria! When he's aggressive, it's impulsive, not planned...he also had Low Average working memory skills and Average on processing speed.

I don't think he's "emotionally disturbed", but I think he's emotionally fragile and behind on development of some social-emotional skills.

Apparently DC does not allow 'developmental delay' classification strictly for social-emotional issues, while the federal law does (and MoCo does). This is the same problem that OP faces. I can and will ask about "Other Health Impaired".

Cross-posting with Special Ed teacher, thanks for this.

No, "developmental delay" is allowed until age 6. It's purely based on age not what type of issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he does not have a speech delay, correct? He also doesn't have global developmental delays. The teacher says autism, your responses didn't indicate that. Do you think he could be on the spectrum? One thing I often tell parents is to look at these questionnaires in relation to an IEP: Does he make eye contact when requesting something at least 7 out of 10 times? Does he read emotions correctly at least 7 out of 10 times? These are just examples. The teachers are able to see him directly compared to his peers, and perhaps he doesn't exhibit the same "symptoms" of ASD when he is at home. I would definitely get a 2nd opinion, many high-functioning children pass the ADOS initially and do not show symptoms until the social demands increase beyond what they are able to cope with. My child passed the ADOS initially, but she was diagnosed a year later and reconfirmed 3 years after that.

I am not saying he DOES have autism, he may just have some traits. It strikes me though that the teachers have such a different perception than you do.

What will happen? Unless they give him the educational diagnosis of autism, he will likely not qualify for an IEP anymore. He doesn't have significant enough delays for the DD label and he does not have other health issues. Pretty much the only way to get an IEP for pragmatic speech and social skills is through the autism diagnosis, because his issues do not interfere with academics. Pullout services for lunch are next to impossible to get at most DCPS. You may get it unofficially, but they do not usually want to commit to this on an IEP.

You may need to supplement privately, unfortunately.

OP here. Thanks. This helps a lot and is pretty much as we expected. We'll try and set up a follow up at KKI and possibly an NIH study to see if he does fall on the spectrum, which might help him qualify for an IEP if needed. As you said, these "symptoms" are reduced, even nearly absent at home. What works in terms of supplementing privately? Social skills groups, soccer, other group activities?

10:57. Have you ever observed your child at school? When I first observed my kid at school, I was shocked, a completely different kid from the one I saw at home. This is very common for kids with Asperger's. Our developmental pediatrician, Dr Shapiro, told me this was one of the main reasons he always did a school observation. Most people who meet my kid one-on-one never suspect he's on the spectrum.

NP. My son exactly. Could not believe the night and day difference.

[Anonymous]

OP, in order to keep a code you need to show that it is affecting the child educationally. Unfortunately, social skills does not usually fall under this. If the school is looking to end the IEP, I would ask them to consider extending the IEP/monitoring your child for the first month or so of Kindergarten and then having a 60 day review to see if services are still necessary. I say this because once you lose an IEP it is a bit of a process to get it back. Also, ask if the incoming school has a "lunch bunch" (usually run by the school counselor). Maybe that is something they would be willing to put into place for your DC.