Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article above would seem to support the idea the team has covered their operating costs in the past but have never covered the costs of operating the facility, which are significant.

“County staff told the Board that team fees aren’t sufficient to pay for county costs after all facility costs are factored in.”

This is all a larger issue and the Board should ask some committee to go off and study it and come back with recommendations and the committee should just be stacked with gymnastics and swim people.

Honest question does any community center programming cover the cost of the center? I would probably guess not. But interesting question.

No I don't think so and I don't think that's the model either. This is a unique situation though where one program has taken over the majority (but not all) of a large rec center.

Please do not mention the pools again. Swimming/water-based activities and gymnastics are not the same thing and it's weird how people keep trying to compare them.

I get it but I think they are comparable in the fact that the public has complained of the limited ability to use the pool due to the competitive team.

Also the damn water slide is never available 😒

It's really not true the public has limited use of these pools. For anyone who is interested, google the schedules. There are nearly (but not always) some lanes open for public lap swim. Same with the community pools at the schools. I used to bring my kids when they were little all the time for family swim times and the pools are heavily used. There are times every single weekend at one of the pools. Definitely I've been at a pool when one of the private clubs has lanes reserved at the pool. They co-exist with everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a bunch of people on here saying they think a pool as a community asset is a different use case than a gymnastics gym. I think this and I’ve seen others posting they think this too who are not me.

I understand the rec program makes use of the higher end gymnastics equipment too. We all get it. My own kid took gymnastics classes at Dymanic for years and they don’t have that whole setup. I’ve been in both spaces.

What are you talking about? Dynamic has all the equipment for a competitive team, just like Barcroff. They do indeed have the whole set up.

I’m guessing they mean an in ground pit? I don’t believe Dynamic has one. I’m sure they’ve heavily explored the possibility but likely couldn’t break the concrete in their warehouse space to the depth required in the areas needed (or couldn’t without rerouting utilities or increasing structural supports in a way that wasn’t feasible). This is a common issue, most gyms with in ground pits are either purpose built or in much larger warehouse spaces further out that have more space to utilize overall.

Dynamic has a pit in their team gym, but not their rec gym. It is also very over enrolled- and the waitlists are years long.

The team doesn’t do levels 9/10 so those girls will definitely have to look elsewhere. But I was surprised to see that the aerials (out of county) price is more than we pay at dynamic for the team. I don’t know how the hours compare, but it seems like they could definitely increase fees

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article above would seem to support the idea the team has covered their operating costs in the past but have never covered the costs of operating the facility, which are significant.

“County staff told the Board that team fees aren’t sufficient to pay for county costs after all facility costs are factored in.”

This is all a larger issue and the Board should ask some committee to go off and study it and come back with recommendations and the committee should just be stacked with gymnastics and swim people.

Honest question does any community center programming cover the cost of the center? I would probably guess not. But interesting question.

No I don't think so and I don't think that's the model either. This is a unique situation though where one program has taken over the majority (but not all) of a large rec center.

Please do not mention the pools again. Swimming/water-based activities and gymnastics are not the same thing and it's weird how people keep trying to compare them.

You write this like the gymnastics parents claimed rooms and they're squatting. No one has taken over anything. The county decided to expand the program in 2017 because it was so popular. And to the best of my knowledge, there is still overwhelming demand for the program.

Okay sorry for the phrasing. One program has use of the majority (but not all) of a large rec center.

Someone many pages back said the demand for the competitive team has gone down and I wonder if that's a piece of the puzzle too. If they're paying high fees and enrollment goes down, that's an impact. Is there a wait list for the competitive teams?

Competitive teams don't have waitlists anyhwere. You have to reach a skill threshold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are a bunch of people on here saying they think a pool as a community asset is a different use case than a gymnastics gym. I think this and I’ve seen others posting they think this too who are not me.

I understand the rec program makes use of the higher end gymnastics equipment too. We all get it. My own kid took gymnastics classes at Dymanic for years and they don’t have that whole setup. I’ve been in both spaces.

What are you talking about? Dynamic has all the equipment for a competitive team, just like Barcroff. They do indeed have the whole set up.

I’m guessing they mean an in ground pit? I don’t believe Dynamic has one. I’m sure they’ve heavily explored the possibility but likely couldn’t break the concrete in their warehouse space to the depth required in the areas needed (or couldn’t without rerouting utilities or increasing structural supports in a way that wasn’t feasible). This is a common issue, most gyms with in ground pits are either purpose built or in much larger warehouse spaces further out that have more space to utilize overall.

Dynamic has a pit in their team gym, but not their rec gym. It is also very over enrolled- and the waitlists are years long.

The team doesn’t do levels 9/10 so those girls will definitely have to look elsewhere. But I was surprised to see that the aerials (out of county) price is more than we pay at dynamic for the team. I don’t know how the hours compare, but it seems like they could definitely increase fees

Level 7-10 are at 20 hours a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article above would seem to support the idea the team has covered their operating costs in the past but have never covered the costs of operating the facility, which are significant.

“County staff told the Board that team fees aren’t sufficient to pay for county costs after all facility costs are factored in.”

This is all a larger issue and the Board should ask some committee to go off and study it and come back with recommendations and the committee should just be stacked with gymnastics and swim people.

Honest question does any community center programming cover the cost of the center? I would probably guess not. But interesting question.

No I don't think so and I don't think that's the model either. This is a unique situation though where one program has taken over the majority (but not all) of a large rec center.

Please do not mention the pools again. Swimming/water-based activities and gymnastics are not the same thing and it's weird how people keep trying to compare them.

You write this like the gymnastics parents claimed rooms and they're squatting. No one has taken over anything. The county decided to expand the program in 2017 because it was so popular. And to the best of my knowledge, there is still overwhelming demand for the program.

Okay sorry for the phrasing. One program has use of the majority (but not all) of a large rec center.

Someone many pages back said the demand for the competitive team has gone down and I wonder if that's a piece of the puzzle too. If they're paying high fees and enrollment goes down, that's an impact. Is there a wait list for the competitive teams?

Competitive teams don't have waitlists anyhwere. You have to reach a skill threshold.

It can be super competitive to get onto the team at the lower levels. There's some attrition at older levels, but it is super competitive to get a spot for young gymnasts.

[Anonymous]

There definitely are waitlists at the lower levels. At private gyms if your child is extremely talented like top 1% obviously they’ll jump the queue. What’s interesting is that when I worked in Arlington it was NOT like that and kids could never come out of rec until tryouts.

But in most of the big nova gyms there are definitely kids who could hack it skill wise that have to wait for a space. If someone drops they always fill that spot.

[Anonymous]

Sorry what you are all describing should not be a program run out of a government. Get your team out of the county.

[Anonymous]

The problem with these types of reductions and also school boundary conversations is I actually believe a silent majority agree on the right thing to do with school boundaries or would support some cuts or modifications to this program. But we all live here with each other and the people who advocate are so aggressive and passionate you don’t want to disagree with them publicly. That would be such a lose-lose. So the silent majority just says nothing.

The County Board, without question, will cave on this.

[Anonymous]

Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?

I don't know what you mean by what would you cut? The issue is that DPR isn't running all of the rec classes and community activities they used to because they haven't fully staffed the program. That's why there's such a large shortfall. Cutting things isn't going to make the program recover its fees. Instead, DPR need to start offering all of the camps, classes, birthday parties, open gyms, no school day camps, and activities they used to when the program was profitable. It's totally fine if they need to look at the fees for the competition team and make sure they're appropriate. I haven't heard any parents object to that. But part of this has to be making sure that the facility is being fully utilized both to recover fees and to maximize its value to the community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?

I guess I am a bit confused as to why you think rec is so pricy. We obliviously pay significantly more than families in rec gymnastics. The last time we had cost recovery numbers for the competitive program we were at ore than 100% cost recovery but it has been ages since they provided us this information. If you are asking whether competitive families are willing to pay 100% cost recovery for our program I would wager the answer is yes. It is for me anyway!

Families in the competitive program can pay over 8K a year for higher levels (and then all travel costs and meet fees are paid directly bypassing the county, which can be another couple grand). The competitive coaches also generally teach rec.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Save rec but make competition teams pay full market rate.

I don't think you understand how other gymnastics gyms operate. The $$$ to run the competitive teams is subsidized by the rec programs. The number of hours that team kids are in gym is a lot.

And the needs of a private organization and a publicly run organization are different. Rec serves the most people (including people with disabilities) and has the best chance of providing cost recovery to the county so it maintains its sustainability long term.

Competitive is such a niche and expensive product for so few individuals. It’s really hard to see the public good in keeping it, especially when we’re in a budget year where something else is going to have to give.

Those of you who are angling to keep it - what would you cut? Are you willing to accept 50% or more higher fees?

I guess I am a bit confused as to why you think rec is so pricy. We obliviously pay significantly more than families in rec gymnastics. The last time we had cost recovery numbers for the competitive program we were at ore than 100% cost recovery but it has been ages since they provided us this information. If you are asking whether competitive families are willing to pay 100% cost recovery for our program I would wager the answer is yes. It is for me anyway!

Families in the competitive program can pay over 8K a year for higher levels (and then all travel costs and meet fees are paid directly bypassing the county, which can be another couple grand). The competitive coaches also generally teach rec.

Sorry, I meant to say why you think the competitive program is so pricy to run compared to rec. Yes, the kids have lots of hours in the gym but they already pay signifcantly more (plus everything else I said lol)

[Anonymous]

The ArlNow article seemed to imply though there is no charge for the facility built into the program previously being "profitable". Is it profitable if the building and utilities, equipment maintenance and replacement cycle is included? Was it ever profitable if you include those things?

I'm guessing a bunch of the cost savings they are projecting include the overall facility costs.