Did the Takoma MS magnet got MORE white this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Well said. It's sad that the only program MCPS has that can challenge the top-tier private schools (it's test-in magnet program) is being changed due to political correctness and jealousy. I can just picture the conversation

Administrator #1: "Wow, look at those SAT scores over there at Blair. It's really amazing isn't it? We need to send out a press release!"
Administrator #2: "Definitely! Hold on a second, all these names of Intel Scholars sound Asian. Let me see the full list of Magnet students. All these names sound Asian and White."
Administrator #1: "Yea, they've been gaming the system for years. Sending their kids to tutors, supplementing education, and actually filling out the application"
Administrator #2: "Oh no, we can't have that! That isn't fair"
Administrator #1: "I know. We send parents information and leave phone mail message constantly in both English and Spanish but Hispanics and African Americans don't apply"
Administrator #2: "It sounds like we need try and make the application easier."
Administrator #1: "I've got a better idea! Lets get rid of the application all together. Test everyone."
Administrator #2: "Brilliant! But what about the fact that Black and Hispanics test lower across the board on all standardized tests, how do we overcome that?"
Administrator #1: "We should just set up quotas by race."
Administrator #2: "I wish. They passed a stupid law against quotas."
Administrator #1: "Let's think, how can we get around the law. Most Whites and Asians like to live in the same snobby rich areas, right?"
Administrator #2: "Right... God I hate those Whites and Asians!"
Administrator #1: "Then lets say that if you live in an area where your home school has other really smart kids then you get penalized in the admissions process."
Administrator #2: "Great Idea! That way, we can say that we aren't giving preference to race, we can disguise it as preference by opportunity."
Administrator #1: "Wait, but won't that make the SAT scores at Blair go down? Won't that make us look bad?"
Administrator #2: "Of course it will but we are doing it for the greater good. Plus, we work for the Government. What are they going to do fire us?
Administrator #1: "Ha ha ha ha ha ha!"
Administrator #2: "Ha ha ha ha he he ha ha!"

This is satire at it's best and, unfortunately, it's probably close to how the decision was actually made. It's certainly not racist, inflammatory yes, but that's not unusual for satire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
BOTTOM LINE the top 2.5% of 4000 (2018 application pool) beats out the top 16% of 600 (2017 application pool)

BUT BUT 4000 kids selected to test because of high grades and test scores isn't the same as the 600 kids selected by their parents!!

This sums up the previous 20+ pages perfectly.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American public schools are not like the schools some people here experienced in their home countries. Unfortunately this magnet cycle may have been a rude awakening. The mission of the US Department of Education is this: "ED's mission is to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access." Note the "and ensuring equal access" part, which had to be a goal because this country has a very long history of restricting access to education by race and class. The mission is not to reward the top test-takers or to winnow out the best students for the purpose of plum jobs or college spots, like it may be in some countries. I feel as if we are speaking a different language from one another here.

This should be a pinned post. Someone in one of these threads posted about how magnet admissions should be more like uni admissions in Russia or India. Which...leaving aside the issues of corruption in those systems, and leaving aside that we are talking about 8 year-olds, not 18 year-olds, that's not how America works. Social mobility is a core national ideal, and you cannot square that with a system that tracks kids from kindergarten onward and then subjects them to high-stakes testing at 16 that determines their college major and life trajectory.

MSers are not 8 yrs olds (I believe this thread is about MS magnet).

Equitable access means -- it doesn't matter where you live, too.

I thought merit was also an American value.

If MCPS doesn't care about test scores then why are they trying to close the achievement gap and publish test score stats?

MSer are closer to 8-year-olds than 18-year-olds. At this level potential is more important than merit. Potential is a need that a school system can meet. Merit is someone who is already thriving where they are, whether that is because their home school is exceptional or they are doing something outside of school.

I have never heard this as a definition of merit. Would dictionary are you using?

A public school should provide equitable admission criteria to a county wide test in program regardless of where you live in the county or who your neighbors are, just as it should do so regardless of your skin color.

Sorry, but if there's a school where everyone is already exceptional, they clearly don't need a magnet. If there's a student who stands out among peers, they do need a magnet, even if those peers aren't anywhere near as good. The magnet is a scarce county-wide resource and access should be distributed across ms clusters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
.. at the expense of others based on where they live. It's not about "hoarding". It's about equitable access, which this new method does not provide in the case of "peer cohort". If they did away with the cohort nonsense, the whole thread would go away.

I am pretty sure that it's ironic for parents who live in Bethesda and Potomac to complain about inequitable access in the context of MCPS, but my intuitive understanding of irony has been messed up since 1995 (damn you, Alanis Morissette).

it is inequitable access to a magnet program that the district provides supposedly to everyone, but they ding you if you have a peer cohort at your home school. That's not equitable access.

If you are referring to the fact that those rich kids in Bethesda and Potomac have more access to enrichment both in and outside of school, that's not enrichment provided by the school district. If it were, then it would be inequitable.

I am referring to the fact that kids who don't live in Bethesda and Potomac don't have access to the "good schools" in Bethesda and Potomac. Which was a feature, not a bug, for many parents in Bethesda and Potomac -- until MCPS started more explicitly considering home-school peer cohort for the magnet admissions process this year.

Tell you what. First we'll get rid of zoning by geographic location. Any kid can go to any school in the county. Or maybe kids can be assigned to schools by lottery. Then we'll remove the home-school peer-cohort part of the magnet admissions process. Sound good to you?

I have heard MCPS say that all MCPS schools are "good schools", so they can't have it both ways. Those non W schools are just as good as W schools, according to MCPS.

If you want to get rid of zoning and busing along with it, I'm all for it but that would hurt lower income kids more than upper income kids. You can't keep the transportation because that would cost way too much, and that would budget impact would hurt lower income kids more than upper income kids.

I think that underenrolled schools should allow cosas automatically on a first come first served basis.

I'm interpreting that as a no. You want to maintain segregated schools in MCPS -- but you don't want MCPS to make magnet admissions decisions based on the existence of segregated schools.

So what of it? It's in my self-interest.

this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[quote=Anonymous
My God. I'm inclined to be sympathetic to disappointed parents, but this is just foot stamping nonsense at this point. This whole thread is a case study in hoarding opportunity and deep resentment at the idea that someone else might get a chance to reach their potential.

agree
Not true. I don't have a child who applied this year but I think it is important to speak up on behalf of the children who were discriminated against this year as well as for the children who will be impacted in years to come. I also think that MCPS needs to be held accountable for their lack of transparency. They have not published test scores this year as they have in years past and this naturally raises questions about the role of merit in their selection process.
I can't think of any poster who has criticized them for screening more children. That was a great move. It is their selection criteria that is being criticized.

There is absolutely a huge achievement gap in this county and most people I know support efforts to reduce the gap and to do as much as possible to improve the academic performance of children who are not reaching their true potential. I don't think the county is doing enough and I applaud the efforts of the Geoge B Thomas Learning Academy
http://www.saturdayschool.org/programs/
and the Art of Problem Solving's small pilot program in Gaithersburg
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/rick_hess_straight_up/2018/04/straight_up_conversation_math_guru_richard_rusczyk.html

Why not support more efforts like this rather than lowering admissions standards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not true. I don't have a child who applied this year but I think it is important to speak up on behalf of the children who were discriminated against this year as well as for the children who will be impacted in years to come. I also think that MCPS needs to be held accountable for their lack of transparency. They have not published test scores this year as they have in years past and this naturally raises questions about the role of merit in their selection process.
I can't think of any poster who has criticized them for screening more children. That was a great move. It is their selection criteria that is being criticized.

There is absolutely a huge achievement gap in this county and most people I know support efforts to reduce the gap and to do as much as possible to improve the academic performance of children who are not reaching their true potential. I don't think the county is doing enough and I applaud the efforts of the Geoge B Thomas Learning Academy
http://www.saturdayschool.org/programs/
and the Art of Problem Solving's small pilot program in Gaithersburg
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/rick_hess_straight_up/2018/04/straight_up_conversation_math_guru_richard_rusczyk.html

Why not support more efforts like this rather than lowering admissions standards?

Why do you assume that admissions standards were lowered?

Also, if you are worried about your children not reaching their true potential because they didn't get admitted to the MS magnet programs, how about sending them to those programs you applaud?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[quote=Anonymous
My God. I'm inclined to be sympathetic to disappointed parents, but this is just foot stamping nonsense at this point. This whole thread is a case study in hoarding opportunity and deep resentment at the idea that someone else might get a chance to reach their potential.

agree

Not true. I don't have a child who applied this year but I think it is important to speak up on behalf of the children who were discriminated against this year as well as for the children who will be impacted in years to come. I also think that MCPS needs to be held accountable for their lack of transparency. They have not published test scores this year as they have in years past and this naturally raises questions about the role of merit in their selection process.
I can't think of any poster who has criticized them for screening more children. That was a great move. It is their selection criteria that is being criticized.

There is absolutely a huge achievement gap in this county and most people I know support efforts to reduce the gap and to do as much as possible to improve the academic performance of children who are not reaching their true potential. I don't think the county is doing enough and I applaud the efforts of the Geoge B Thomas Learning Academy
http://www.saturdayschool.org/programs/
and the Art of Problem Solving's small pilot program in Gaithersburg
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/rick_hess_straight_up/2018/04/straight_up_conversation_math_guru_richard_rusczyk.html

Why not support more efforts like this rather than lowering admissions standards?

The..standards...weren't...lowered. The Cogat test can't distinguish among the 98th and above percentiles. If MCPS used it to do that in past, it is at risk of a successful lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[quote=Anonymous
My God. I'm inclined to be sympathetic to disappointed parents, but this is just foot stamping nonsense at this point. This whole thread is a case study in hoarding opportunity and deep resentment at the idea that someone else might get a chance to reach their potential.

agree

Not true. I don't have a child who applied this year but I think it is important to speak up on behalf of the children who were discriminated against this year as well as for the children who will be impacted in years to come. I also think that MCPS needs to be held accountable for their lack of transparency. They have not published test scores this year as they have in years past and this naturally raises questions about the role of merit in their selection process.
I can't think of any poster who has criticized them for screening more children. That was a great move. It is their selection criteria that is being criticized.

There is absolutely a huge achievement gap in this county and most people I know support efforts to reduce the gap and to do as much as possible to improve the academic performance of children who are not reaching their true potential. I don't think the county is doing enough and I applaud the efforts of the Geoge B Thomas Learning Academy
http://www.saturdayschool.org/programs/
and the Art of Problem Solving's small pilot program in Gaithersburg
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/rick_hess_straight_up/2018/04/straight_up_conversation_math_guru_richard_rusczyk.html

Why not support more efforts like this rather than lowering admissions standards?

The..standards...weren't...lowered. The Cogat test can't distinguish among the 98th and above percentiles. If MCPS used it to do that in past, it is at risk of a successful lawsuit.

The problem with this is that nobody was discriminated against. This is just in your crazy little head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My God. I'm inclined to be sympathetic to disappointed parents, but this is just foot stamping nonsense at this point. This whole thread is a case study in hoarding opportunity and deep resentment at the idea that someone else might get a chance to reach their potential.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American public schools are not like the schools some people here experienced in their home countries. Unfortunately this magnet cycle may have been a rude awakening. The mission of the US Department of Education is this: "ED's mission is to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access." Note the "and ensuring equal access" part, which had to be a goal because this country has a very long history of restricting access to education by race and class. The mission is not to reward the top test-takers or to winnow out the best students for the purpose of plum jobs or college spots, like it may be in some countries. I feel as if we are speaking a different language from one another here.

This should be a pinned post. Someone in one of these threads posted about how magnet admissions should be more like uni admissions in Russia or India. Which...leaving aside the issues of corruption in those systems, and leaving aside that we are talking about 8 year-olds, not 18 year-olds, that's not how America works. Social mobility is a core national ideal, and you cannot square that with a system that tracks kids from kindergarten onward and then subjects them to high-stakes testing at 16 that determines their college major and life trajectory.

MSers are not 8 yrs olds (I believe this thread is about MS magnet).

Equitable access means -- it doesn't matter where you live, too.

I thought merit was also an American value.

If MCPS doesn't care about test scores then why are they trying to close the achievement gap and publish test score stats?

MSer are closer to 8-year-olds than 18-year-olds. At this level potential is more important than merit. Potential is a need that a school system can meet. Merit is someone who is already thriving where they are, whether that is because their home school is exceptional or they are doing something outside of school.

I have never heard this as a definition of merit. Would dictionary are you using?

A public school should provide equitable admission criteria to a county wide test in program regardless of where you live in the county or who your neighbors are, just as it should do so regardless of your skin color.

Sorry, but if there's a school where everyone is already exceptional, they clearly don't need a magnet. If there's a student who stands out among peers, they do need a magnet, even if those peers aren't anywhere near as good. The magnet is a scarce county-wide resource and access should be distributed across ms clusters.

what? no. Students who are very high achievers need the magnet programs. They are the ones who need the challenge more.

Many MSers are languishing in non magnets all over the county due to unchallenging curriculum. My 7th grader complains about how slow the classes are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
what? no. Students who are very high achievers need the magnet programs. They are the ones who need the challenge more.

Many MSers are languishing in non magnets all over the county due to unchallenging curriculum. My 7th grader complains about how slow the classes are.

Good news! They're adding two classes for gifted kids at the home middle schools, to address the problem of languishing seventh-graders!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
what? no. Students who are very high achievers need the magnet programs. They are the ones who need the challenge more.

Many MSers are languishing in non magnets all over the county due to unchallenging curriculum. My 7th grader complains about how slow the classes are.

Good news! They're adding two classes for gifted kids at the home middle schools, to address the problem of languishing seventh-graders!

That is good news!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American public schools are not like the schools some people here experienced in their home countries. Unfortunately this magnet cycle may have been a rude awakening. The mission of the US Department of Education is this: "ED's mission is to promote student achievement and preparation for global competitiveness by fostering educational excellence and ensuring equal access." Note the "and ensuring equal access" part, which had to be a goal because this country has a very long history of restricting access to education by race and class. The mission is not to reward the top test-takers or to winnow out the best students for the purpose of plum jobs or college spots, like it may be in some countries. I feel as if we are speaking a different language from one another here.

This should be a pinned post. Someone in one of these threads posted about how magnet admissions should be more like uni admissions in Russia or India. Which...leaving aside the issues of corruption in those systems, and leaving aside that we are talking about 8 year-olds, not 18 year-olds, that's not how America works. Social mobility is a core national ideal, and you cannot square that with a system that tracks kids from kindergarten onward and then subjects them to high-stakes testing at 16 that determines their college major and life trajectory.

MSers are not 8 yrs olds (I believe this thread is about MS magnet).

Equitable access means -- it doesn't matter where you live, too.

I thought merit was also an American value.

If MCPS doesn't care about test scores then why are they trying to close the achievement gap and publish test score stats?

MSer are closer to 8-year-olds than 18-year-olds. At this level potential is more important than merit. Potential is a need that a school system can meet. Merit is someone who is already thriving where they are, whether that is because their home school is exceptional or they are doing something outside of school.

I have never heard this as a definition of merit. Would dictionary are you using?

A public school should provide equitable admission criteria to a county wide test in program regardless of where you live in the county or who your neighbors are, just as it should do so regardless of your skin color.

Sorry, but if there's a school where everyone is already exceptional, they clearly don't need a magnet. If there's a student who stands out among peers, they do need a magnet, even if those peers aren't anywhere near as good. The magnet is a scarce county-wide resource and access should be distributed across ms clusters.

what? no. Students who are very high achievers need the magnet programs. They are the ones who need the challenge more.

Many MSers are languishing in non magnets all over the county due to unchallenging curriculum. My 7th grader complains about how slow the classes are.

No they are thriving. Their peers are thriving. If they really are all bored at school they should participate in class. Your 7th grader is complaining, because that's what they do. They already have all the pieces in place and this is why the new classes are being piloted at the home schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
what? no. Students who are very high achievers need the magnet programs. They are the ones who need the challenge more.

Many MSers are languishing in non magnets all over the county due to unchallenging curriculum. My 7th grader complains about how slow the classes are.

Good news! They're adding two classes for gifted kids at the home middle schools, to address the problem of languishing seventh-graders!

That is good news!!

Except it is also fake news. The classes are only available for sixth graders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
what? no. Students who are very high achievers need the magnet programs. They are the ones who need the challenge more.

Many MSers are languishing in non magnets all over the county due to unchallenging curriculum. My 7th grader complains about how slow the classes are.

Good news! They're adding two classes for gifted kids at the home middle schools, to address the problem of languishing seventh-graders!

That is good news!!

Except it is also fake news. The classes are only available for sixth graders.

Next year (2018-2019) they will be available for sixth graders. The following year (2019-2020) they will be available for sixth graders and seventh graders. And the year after that (2020-2021), they will be available for all three grades in middle school: sixth, seventh, and eighth.