Had this very discussion last night with my wife. Compared the Naviance data, Duke vs. Amherst. Duke has 3-4x the number of applications from our HS, and at least 1/3 have SATs below 1400. Didn't see a single Amherst score below 1400. Plenty of kids applying to Ivies, Duke, etc, based on name recognition alone with no shot whatsoever of admission. Much less of that with the LACs. |
The applicant pool is very strong--for those admitted or waitlisted. However, there are too many kids applying that do not have a chance in part due to the universities themselves. They send out materials (repeatedly) to kids who do not stand a chance making them believe it can happen. Many of these kids are likely at the top of their high school classes and have always been the "smart" and accomplished ones and have not received the guidance that thee schools are outside of their reach. The colleges love it because it makes them look more impressive and the guidance councilors and parents fail in explaining reality to these kids who end up feeling defeated. The reality is that even those with the right stats, right extra-curriculars and perfect package still end up getting rejected. The entire admissions system is broken. |
+1 "The entire admissions system is broken". What I dislike most is the waste of time and effort on the college process during their last years of HS. The common app has created total chaos.
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And the greatest thing about this program is that you can apply EA to BOTH Princeton and Yale The worst is that they do not provide sufficient information to allow top students to do so because they are concerned (and completely ignorant) about financial aid Never knew white kids were eligible - I focus on CA and have only interviewed Latinos and Native Americans |
Based on my personal experience, 1st generation college students get a preference regardless of race. I understand the temptation of a two-fer - URM AND low income, but the fact is that white students regardless of income or parents' education tend to score higher on standardized tests. The other fact is that URMs, regardless of income and their parents' education still score lower on standardized tests than white students. See the Shaker Heights study in Chicago where black parents moved to the suburbs and better public schools but it did not accomplish what they wanted - to raise their kids' scores and grades. Plenty of arguments can be made - the least accurate IMO is that AA's are just not that smart. The other arguments that I find more plausible are a) the kids are not treated in the district the same way the white kids are - they are discouraged by teachers and low expectations in general, including being treated like snowflakes for infractions b) there is a tremendous amount of peer pressure both in Shaker Heights and back in the old 'hood not to become an oreo (black on the outside, white on the inside), and that is directly associated with high academic achievement c) their parents and peers simply lack the vocabulary and knowledge to make the "a rising tide floats all boats" theory come to fruition d) the fact that they are high profile minorities in their own schools somehow adversely impacts their academic performance and psychological well being This is a known phenomena Conservative have said that it proves that "just because you take the kid out of the ghetto, you cannot take the ghetto out of the kid" - actually not conservative, flat out racist But in my experience, there is a huge difference between a kid rising to the top in a single minority population school district - all Latinos for example - and when you mix it up. While it is true that the NAEP testing gap between minorities and white kids remained stable from 2003-2013, the gap between higher and lower income kids widened to the point where it was almost equal. Make of it what you will, but recent studies at Ivy League institutions show that URMs who come from severely economically disadvantaged backgrounds get equally as good jobs as long as they excel (and much more of an effort is being made there) and graduate (ditto). I have NEVER interviewed a white kid who is a member of the Questbridge program, FWIW not offering answers as much as asking questions, but DCUM seems to be a very white UMC population anyway |
The scores on the standardized tests match scores in IQ tests. It's really just as simple as that. |
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And what, pray tell, does that indicate about the IQ test? -LD Esquire, who had to hire a lawyer to get extra time on the bar because my IQ had "sunk" between between pre-k and law school (when they compare you to your age group, at a certain point the age group just puts you in the bottom percentile if there are things your LD makes it impossible for you to do). My IQ went from 180 (at 3, no written work) to 92 when we did the exam for the appeal to the bar. I graduated from an Ivy League University, went to a top ten law school, and landed a lucrative litigation associate position on Wall Street. None of this was sufficient for the bar examiners to entertain the possibility that I was not faking. They wanted evidence of a head injury, which had never occurred. Launched and won the same fight in NJ and California. And CA is tough! Passed all of them, very happy now. But IQ tests are far from simple, for a wide variety of reasons. |
It is a rigged system with collusion between the elite universities, the College Board, and USNWR. It is all about a group of people that want power, prestige, and money. The same way things are rigged in Hollywood. A fair education system would have equal opportunities for all. Colleges care more about yield and denying students than they do about actually educating them. Education like any other business is corrupted by greedy, coniving people who want to exploit it for their own benefit. |
I dob't disagree with the previous post but it's way too late to start addressing equality of educational opportunity at the college level. Look at disparities starting with elementary schools (or before). There are real differences not only across states but within states and, as voters, part of that is on all of us. |
Minorities have different goalposts to jump. Y'all have a quota system and will go far and wide to fill it. You will take a Native American C or D student over a White A student because they check a box. Don't try to snow any of us with your list. |
Furthermore, you consider my husband and my educational background and occupation? That should be not even in play. |
Thank you for confirming to me that liberal colleges are racist as hell. |
If you count international Asian students against the Asian quota, do you do the same for international students from Latin America or Mexico against the Hispanic %, or African countries against the black %? What about decreasing the percentage of international students from China or Asian countries? |
What part of these is no quota are people not understanding? |