MIL trying to send MY Jewish kids to Bible camp!

[Anonymous]

344 responses- Mine will be 345.

ENOUGH!

MIL was wrong... consensus is clear. She'll sort it out. I doubt OP is constantly checking back here every hour. Let's move on.

OY VEY already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:344 responses- Mine will be 345.

ENOUGH!

MIL was wrong... consensus is clear. She'll sort it out. I doubt OP is constantly checking back here every hour. Let's move on.

OY VEY already.

[346]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cannot believe all the posters saying they'd be ok with this. Bullshit. The whole point of these vacation bible camps, like everything else at any christian church, is evangelism. OP's children are jewish. And no, she did not "marry into" a christian family. Her husband married a jew and agreed to raise the kids jewish. You all are unreal.

No evangelizing at our very liberal summer bible camp. We raise money to build wells in the third world and talk about being kind to others. We have several children of mixed Jewish marriages. It depends on the church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bible camp is not the JCC. JCC is like the Y. It's not religious.

Except they shun Christians at the one in our area. We joined one summer for the pool. Never again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Don't you get it? The in laws are undermining BOTH parents regarding a fundamental choice they have made about their lives and their children's lives. OP's husband's family can continue to be Christian, but they should respect OP and her husband's decision that their family will be Jewish. And yes, that is the will of the nuclear family. Jews don't send their kids to Bible camp.

Yes, I get it. But, I find it very interesting that someone who is very Jewish married a non-Jew. No one has mentioned this and the Op has ignored the question. If being Jewish is so important why not marry a Jew? Than there would be a Jewish MIL and FIL. Problem solved!

But, she didn't. If she doesn't want her children to have a relationship with their grandparents it may come back to bite them in the ass. The children could resent having no relations with the grandparents and you are modeling how to treat you in the future. What if they marry a Christian ( the horror) and decide to raise their children Christian? Would you try to sneak them into a Jewish camp? If you did and the son in law canceled your visit with your grandchildren....honestly how would you feel?

If OP was unable to live with this kind of cognitive dissonance I don't understand why she married into a Christian family.

You see the in laws probably think OP and their son is terribly misguided and haven't seen the light. By baptizing the grand kids, or trying to, they literally thought they were saving them from the error of their parents' ways. At this point it's probably more or less an immutable characteristic. So OP getting offended and telling the in laws they were "wrong" will simply not be effective.

Lots of Christians, even educated ones, have no clue about Jews or what Judaism is, other than as it is presented to them. So, OP's inlaws probably think Jews are weird bitter ungrateful paranoid emotionally disturbed people, based on OP's conduct. I mean seriously--what kind of mentally stable person would actually marry into a Christian family and evidently have no understanding of how a lot of Christians' minds works (especially older generations)?

The in laws were taught if you do not believe in Jesus you GO TO HELL. So don't blame them from trying to save their grandkids from GOING TO HELL, because that's what they think they're trying to do, and you will never persuade them otherwise.

A lot of older Christians think interracial marriage and gay marriage are sinful too. Should no one ever marry into those families to avoid tension too? The meddling Christian grandparents overstepped their bounds and need to be respectful. If they can't do that, they lose access to the grandchildren. It's as simple as that. If they can't deal with being respectful of their son's choices he made with his wife, they can pray for the children from afar.

The kids are entitled to have a relationship with their grandparents. It's absurd for someone to marry into a family with totally different beliefs than themselves, actually leave the kids to be cared for for an extended period of time, and then pretend they were so shocked when these kinds of situations arise, because they will, and OP knew it was a problem because of the previous effort to baptize the kids. Also, OP didn't say her husband converted to Judaism, just that he agreed to raise the kids Jewish. Well got news for you--if you have a Christian parent and Christian grandparents on one side, and the Christian parent never agreed to convert to Judaism, then the Jewish parent can't possibly have much of a commitment to actually raising her kids Jewish. That's actually the bigger issue. That's why OP is so defensive about this that a week of innocuous bible camp will throw her into a tizzy. She is so weak in her own religious and cultural commitment to Judaism that she threw her so-called Judaism under a bus to marry a Christian man who according to OP has fanatically Christian parents.

Now don't get me wrong--she can marry whoever she wants, it doesn't matter to me one bit her husband's religion. But she needs to get off of her high horse and stop all the posturing. Would Orthodox Rabbis in Israel even consider her to be lawfully married under Jewish law? The Torah explicitly forbids intermarriage somewhere in Deuteronomy. If OP is going to play this kind of game, she better makes sure she knows what's she's doing.

Not the OP but this is honestly ridiculous. I am a committed Jew, married to a Catholic who did not convert. We decided what religion to raise our children, because as the PARENTS that is our right. My husband went to Catholic school his whole life and his family is very religious. We as a couple are very committed to raising our children Jewish- Jewish pre-school, Hebrew School, and frequent attendance at Friday night services. My husband has not converted for a variety of reasons that are no one's business but he is actively involved in their Jewish education. If his parents tried to teach our kids about Christianity, he would be livid because it would undermine our joint decision as the parents about how we raise our children and is incredibly disrespectful of parents' rights about how to educate their children.

My commitment to Judaism is evident in the way we are raising our children, not what religion my husband was born into. I'm not sure how you get off judging the OP's religious commitment based on a couple of paragraphs on DCUM.

For all you who like to throw around what the Orthodox Rabbi's in Israel would think, that's ridiculous too. The OP is clearly not Orthodox and I, expect like me, the opinions of Orthodox Rabbi's in Israel do NOT have any influence, it is not analogous to the Vatican. In my situation, I was married by an Orthodox AMERICAN rabbi which is more relevant to me because I'm AMERICAN and that's what my husband and I wanted. However, rabbis of all denominations and in all countries, would certainly recognize our children as 100% Jewish.

Now maybe the OP should have anticipated difficulties based on her past experience with her IL's but I certainly have every expectation that when I leave my kids with my ILs, (which, gasp, we have done because we want a few days away and we want our kids to have a good relationship with them!) my ILs would respect our decisions. All of you who are jumping all over the OP and believe it is the grandmother's right to expose the children to "their other half" are probably the same ones flipping out when your ILs give your kids extra candy. There are so many issues where DCUM believes that it's the parents right to set boundaries and the IL's have to abide by them, and yet it's ok for the grandparents to have a say in the children's religion. What a bunch of hypocrites.

You found an orthodox rabbi to perform an intermarriage? Who was it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bible camp is not the JCC. JCC is like the Y. It's not religious.

Except they shun Christians at the one in our area. We joined one summer for the pool. Never again.

I am curious to know how you were shunned? How would anyone even have know that you weren't Jewish?

[Anonymous]

Ultimately the children themselves will grow up and decide what to believe or not to believe. Hopefully they will be taught that one of Judaism's most important commandments or mitzvot is "honor thy father and mother" which to me also includes one's spouse's parents. Regardless of the feelings towards what the in laws did-responding by treating them as diabolical proselytizing Christian oppressors was probably a mistake. If OP felt comfortable enough with them to leave her kids with them for a week they can't be that bad. At some point OP needs to wake up and stop being so neurotically insecure or she may find that rather than encouraging her kids to have a healthy understanding of Judaism, she is turning them off to it far more profoundly than a week in summer Bible camp ever could. Op has to come to grips with her own conflicted feelings towards Judaism as evidenced by her intermarriage which seems to be the real issue here.

[Anonymous]

The real issue is that the MIL is disrespectful and conniving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately the children themselves will grow up and decide what to believe or not to believe. Hopefully they will be taught that one of Judaism's most important commandments or mitzvot is "honor thy father and mother" which to me also includes one's spouse's parents. Regardless of the feelings towards what the in laws did-responding by treating them as diabolical proselytizing Christian oppressors was probably a mistake. If OP felt comfortable enough with them to leave her kids with them for a week they can't be that bad. At some point OP needs to wake up and stop being so neurotically insecure or she may find that rather than encouraging her kids to have a healthy understanding of Judaism, she is turning them off to it far more profoundly than a week in summer Bible camp ever could. Op has to come to grips with her own conflicted feelings towards Judaism as evidenced by her intermarriage which seems to be the real issue here.

This is ridiculous. An inter-faith marriage is not evidence of conflicted religious feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Don't you get it? The in laws are undermining BOTH parents regarding a fundamental choice they have made about their lives and their children's lives. OP's husband's family can continue to be Christian, but they should respect OP and her husband's decision that their family will be Jewish. And yes, that is the will of the nuclear family. Jews don't send their kids to Bible camp.

Yes, I get it. But, I find it very interesting that someone who is very Jewish married a non-Jew. No one has mentioned this and the Op has ignored the question. If being Jewish is so important why not marry a Jew? Than there would be a Jewish MIL and FIL. Problem solved!

But, she didn't. If she doesn't want her children to have a relationship with their grandparents it may come back to bite them in the ass. The children could resent having no relations with the grandparents and you are modeling how to treat you in the future. What if they marry a Christian ( the horror) and decide to raise their children Christian? Would you try to sneak them into a Jewish camp? If you did and the son in law canceled your visit with your grandchildren....honestly how would you feel?

If OP was unable to live with this kind of cognitive dissonance I don't understand why she married into a Christian family.

You see the in laws probably think OP and their son is terribly misguided and haven't seen the light. By baptizing the grand kids, or trying to, they literally thought they were saving them from the error of their parents' ways. At this point it's probably more or less an immutable characteristic. So OP getting offended and telling the in laws they were "wrong" will simply not be effective.

Lots of Christians, even educated ones, have no clue about Jews or what Judaism is, other than as it is presented to them. So, OP's inlaws probably think Jews are weird bitter ungrateful paranoid emotionally disturbed people, based on OP's conduct. I mean seriously--what kind of mentally stable person would actually marry into a Christian family and evidently have no understanding of how a lot of Christians' minds works (especially older generations)?

The in laws were taught if you do not believe in Jesus you GO TO HELL. So don't blame them from trying to save their grandkids from GOING TO HELL, because that's what they think they're trying to do, and you will never persuade them otherwise.

A lot of older Christians think interracial marriage and gay marriage are sinful too. Should no one ever marry into those families to avoid tension too? The meddling Christian grandparents overstepped their bounds and need to be respectful. If they can't do that, they lose access to the grandchildren. It's as simple as that. If they can't deal with being respectful of their son's choices he made with his wife, they can pray for the children from afar.

The kids are entitled to have a relationship with their grandparents. It's absurd for someone to marry into a family with totally different beliefs than themselves, actually leave the kids to be cared for for an extended period of time, and then pretend they were so shocked when these kinds of situations arise, because they will, and OP knew it was a problem because of the previous effort to baptize the kids. Also, OP didn't say her husband converted to Judaism, just that he agreed to raise the kids Jewish. Well got news for you--if you have a Christian parent and Christian grandparents on one side, and the Christian parent never agreed to convert to Judaism, then the Jewish parent can't possibly have much of a commitment to actually raising her kids Jewish. That's actually the bigger issue. That's why OP is so defensive about this that a week of innocuous bible camp will throw her into a tizzy. She is so weak in her own religious and cultural commitment to Judaism that she threw her so-called Judaism under a bus to marry a Christian man who according to OP has fanatically Christian parents.

Now don't get me wrong--she can marry whoever she wants, it doesn't matter to me one bit her husband's religion. But she needs to get off of her high horse and stop all the posturing. Would Orthodox Rabbis in Israel even consider her to be lawfully married under Jewish law? The Torah explicitly forbids intermarriage somewhere in Deuteronomy. If OP is going to play this kind of game, she better makes sure she knows what's she's doing.

Not the OP but this is honestly ridiculous. I am a committed Jew, married to a Catholic who did not convert. We decided what religion to raise our children, because as the PARENTS that is our right. My husband went to Catholic school his whole life and his family is very religious. We as a couple are very committed to raising our children Jewish- Jewish pre-school, Hebrew School, and frequent attendance at Friday night services. My husband has not converted for a variety of reasons that are no one's business but he is actively involved in their Jewish education. If his parents tried to teach our kids about Christianity, he would be livid because it would undermine our joint decision as the parents about how we raise our children and is incredibly disrespectful of parents' rights about how to educate their children.

My commitment to Judaism is evident in the way we are raising our children, not what religion my husband was born into. I'm not sure how you get off judging the OP's religious commitment based on a couple of paragraphs on DCUM.

For all you who like to throw around what the Orthodox Rabbi's in Israel would think, that's ridiculous too. The OP is clearly not Orthodox and I, expect like me, the opinions of Orthodox Rabbi's in Israel do NOT have any influence, it is not analogous to the Vatican. In my situation, I was married by an Orthodox AMERICAN rabbi which is more relevant to me because I'm AMERICAN and that's what my husband and I wanted. However, rabbis of all denominations and in all countries, would certainly recognize our children as 100% Jewish.

Now maybe the OP should have anticipated difficulties based on her past experience with her IL's but I certainly have every expectation that when I leave my kids with my ILs, (which, gasp, we have done because we want a few days away and we want our kids to have a good relationship with them!) my ILs would respect our decisions. All of you who are jumping all over the OP and believe it is the grandmother's right to expose the children to "their other half" are probably the same ones flipping out when your ILs give your kids extra candy. There are so many issues where DCUM believes that it's the parents right to set boundaries and the IL's have to abide by them, and yet it's ok for the grandparents to have a say in the children's religion. What a bunch of hypocrites.

You found an orthodox rabbi to perform an intermarriage? Who was it?

He's from California otherwise I'd share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bible camp is not the JCC. JCC is like the Y. It's not religious.

Except they shun Christians at the one in our area. We joined one summer for the pool. Never again.

I am curious to know how you were shunned? How would anyone even have know that you weren't Jewish?

Perhaps the family is not white
There is a lot of elitism shrouded in religious piety

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP has a right to be upset. Jewish kids do not belong at vbs (and yes, those kids are Jewish because the mom is Jewish). On that same note, Christian kids should not be sent to a Jewish camp. Why on earth would they want to go anyway????

You really can't see the difference?

What difference. There are reform, conservative and orthodox Jewish camps. Even the most reform camps are kosher, sing hebrew songs and teach about the bible. So no, I do not see a difference. and for the record. I am Jewish and I get it. So many of the posters on this thread simply do not get it.

[Anonymous]

But grandparents are family. Did Moses not command you to honor your mother and father.
You cannot impose your religion on the in-laws and you cannot pressure your man to cut off all contact with them even in the name of religion
Perhaps OP is just looking for a reason to break away and retrete into a sheltered cult like experience. The average jewish kid does not have gentile granparents, even if you raise them as much jewish as possible, they are still on half goyim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But grandparents are family. Did Moses not command you to honor your mother and father.
You cannot impose your religion on the in-laws and you cannot pressure your man to cut off all contact with them even in the name of religion
Perhaps OP is just looking for a reason to break away and retrete into a sheltered cult like experience. The average jewish kid does not have gentile granparents, even if you raise them as much jewish as possible, they are still on half goyim

WTF, OP was NOT:
- imposing religion on inlaws
- pressuring DH to cut off contact
- giving any kind of cult vibe

Her MIL was disrespectful. End of story.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe this stupid thread is still alive.