I don't get Atheism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See, these atheists here claim to be good humanists for the sake of personal codes, but can't stand other people unless they are the right kind of people. Funny.

All of the atheists here say they can't stand believers? Please quote it.

[Anonymous]

I see this thread is many months old and pages long so I'm not sure where it came off the rails but I had to weigh in. Atheism is simply lack of a belief in a god(s). It's not the absolute claim that no god exists. It's not a moral code. It's not a political party. All it is is taking a look at the evidence out there for god and judging it not to be sufficient to merit a belief. That's it.

I'm not sure how the OP and others don't "get" atheism. The proof for a god is ambiguous at best. Millions of people believe in god? Great, millions of people also believed the earth was the center of the solar system. There is a book thousands of year old talking about god? Great, just because something is in writing doesn't make it true. You prayed and something good happened in your life? Things will happen in your life regardless of whether or not you pray. Correlation does not mean causation. Humans apply skepticism to outrageous claims everyday but religion gets a pass. It's bizarre and fascinating at the same time. For some people, just taking it a face value that a guy died and rose again or ascended up to heaven on a horse is not going to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I almost "could" get atheism, but not the brand of it that is often championed here.

I'm an atheist and some of the other atheists confuse me with their rabid behavior. I'm sure there are some people who share your faith that you feel the same way about.

fair point. I'll give you that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, for me the question is... well which version of "God" should someone believe in, and why? There are thousands of versions of god that humans have created. Which one is the right one, and why are all the others the wrong version of God? For example - do you believe in a vengeful god or loving god? Why? How are you making your decision? What qualities and attributes are the right and wrong ones, and how are you making your decisions? Based on what?

There's an oft quoted saying: "I just believe in one less god."

Atheism is more than not believing in anthropomorphous gods. It is materialistic in its essense, i.e. if I can't see it, it must not exist. It is a lot more restrictive than many people realize. It's one thing to say you don't believe in, say, Christian gods. It's quite another to say that what we can't observe/explain in materialistic terms cannot possibly exist.

No, it has nothing to do with materialism. It has to do with science. I'm not an atheist, but atheism is about believing only what you can explain/understand through science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am with you on not getting atheism.
I think many of these atheists have never witnessed the miracle of birth.
People talk about the “randomness of the universe.”
It is not random at all.
The fact that so many, many things can go wrong with the birth of a child and most often, a baby is born nearly perfect proves to me that God’s hand is at work and that we have a good and loving God.
And, to think that a giant maple tree can grow out of a seed that is the size of a pea - simply miraculous.
I have witnessed miracles nearly every day.
There are some things that we simply cannot understand or explain through science.

So if a seed doesn't sprout or a baby does in childbirth is it an anti-miracle?

That makes no sense. The atheist I know best was a surgeon who witnessed the miracle of birth and many deaths. And saw that there was no "hand of god" in having a young person die. And that atheist was also the most kind, gentle, generous and honorable person I've ever known.
I'm not an atheist and I respect other peoples' beliefs, but you are utterly ignorant and dismissive of atheists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing I find strange about non-believers (atheism) is the same strange thing I find about believers (religious). Both actually believe in something without proof. Atheist believe God or a higher power does not exist but they can not prove it. Religious types believe a God or higher power does exist and also can not prove it.

For me personally, I'm agnostic. Is there a God or higher power? I don't know. But if I had to choose which (atheisim or Religon) is more logically based, I'd have to go with atheism. A leap of faith is just that.

Hey, samesies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See, these atheists here claim to be good humanists for the sake of personal codes, but can't stand other people unless they are the right kind of people. Funny.

What? That's completely false. I'm sure there are some atheists like that, but there are MANY religious people who hate others jut because they aren't "the right kind of people". The atheists I know don't think religious people are stupid. They think that they believe something that the atheist thinks is wrong, but they recognize that reasonable minds can disagree and they see the comfort and value in those beliefs.
I don't know any atheists personally who are terrible people. I know many self-declared religious people who are terrible people.
I'm an agnostic, and have a very strict moral code for myself and my family. It doesn't need to come from a man in the sky who does magic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My opinion is that atheists are cowardly. They claim believers cling to God for childish comfort, but really they are the ones who can't trust in something unless it is spelled out for them in a colored textbook. Even then I have a feeling they suspect that the next scientist/theory will disprove the ones before so refuse to go "all in" on anything.

Again, just my opinion.

Mine too. And they say everything is "just science." Yes, well... Who created the science? They can't really explain that of course.

They don't say everything is "just science". Your ignorance is showing. There are as many variations in person atheistic beliefs as there are variations in personal Christian beliefs. The atheists in my family believe that nature is an amazing thing, but not guided by the hand of God. Rather, the universe is random but we happen to be in this one part of the universe that has allowed for life as we know it. And it's awesome. They think that no one will save us or protect us, so we'd better be good stewards of our world and each other. They are wonderful people. And most of their good friends are religious people, of whom they are certainly not disrespectful or dismissive.
You are very narrow minded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See, these atheists here claim to be good humanists for the sake of personal codes, but can't stand other people unless they are the right kind of people. Funny.

All of the atheists here say they can't stand believers? Please quote it.

It's not there. The anti-atheists say this so they can justify being hateful and feeling superior to atheists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a very simple explanation for me.

You know how those of you who believe in God/Allah/whatever monotheistic deity you happen to choose feel about the Greek, Roman and Norse pantheons, the religion of the Druids, and all of the other ancient traditions?

When/if you think about those ancient traditions, you understand that those ancient peoples were trying to explain natural phenomena that they couldn't otherwise explain - the seasons, the weather, disease, death, etc. You dismiss those things now and you, an educated modern person, understand for example that lighting is a natural event and not the wrath of a deity.

You don't believe that the gods of those ancient traditions exist, and the only way you would believe it is if one of them turned up on your doorstep and started tossing thunderbolts - and even then you'd probably appeal to Clarke's Law* rather than believe it was a deity of some kind.

Atheists feel the same way as you do about all those ancient beliefs. We just happen to feel the same way about your deity of choice, too.

We don't really think about your deity as part of our daily lives, and we simply don't believe that deity exists. Atheists believe that there is a rational, natural explanation for all things including the origin of our Universe, we just haven't figured some of them out, yet.


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*Clarke's Law - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Yes, but the problem with this (for you) is, just because you "don't believe," doesn't make it "not true."

Sure, and maybe thunder is the wrath of an angry god. But just because you "believe" doesn't make it "true", either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Oh, dude, I have. I've had born-agains try to get me to be a born-again. (Born all right the first time, thanks.) Not Mormons, though. Have known many and they actually have never tried to convert me other than sort of by example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only people I saw openly prosletising were Jehova's Witnesses. Even Mormons didn't seem intrusive at all. I guess I don't get into those types of conversations with casual acquaintances, because frankly, I have no idea who's religious and who's not. People occasionally mention going to church, but I have never been offered to be saved or find Jesus LOL

Imagine if an atheist or even agnostic president would get elected. If you can't imagine that, that's the reason why atheists feel that religion intrude too much into our lives.

I think it was actually more common in the past than it is now. Jefferson, for example.

Jefferson was not an atheist. He wasn't even agnostic. He was at the very least a deist with strong Christian ties.

He was a deist who cut out all the miracle stories from the new testament to hear the clear words of Jesus of Nazareth. It's known as the Jefferson Bible - a very slim volume, that can be purchased in bookstores and the original was on display at the Smithsonian a few years ago.

and he said this: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823, quoted from James A Haught, "Breaking the Last Taboo" (1996)

Hey, thanks! I had forgotten about the Jefferson Bible. Going to get one for my kids. Signed, agnostic married to a Jesuit Catholic with two very questioning kids who we want to have Christianity as a comfort but also not squelch their sense of logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I get the feeling that because I'm religious, people are always viewing me as some unintelligent mongo and to the person who said I'm not a free thinking individual, why don't you go suck a big fat one.

If you can't wrap your mind around people thinking differently from how you do, then you are, by definition, unintelligent. Or at the very least, uninformed and closed-minded.

The anger I see on this particular thread comes from religious, not atheist people.

For the record, I am a moderately religious Christian (Lutheran).

I have no problem with other people's views. What I have a problem is is being unfairly stereotyped.

Um, if you're using the word "mongo" to mean "stupid", then you actually aren't being *unfairly* stereotyped. You are being very fairly stereotyped as ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Even atheists pray on a crashing plane.

This atheist has been in a crashing car and has not prayed.

Yep. This is one of those things people say that just isn't true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Behind every creation is a creator. Anyone that doesn't see that is truly lost.

Hmmm, I don't believe that and I don't seem to be lost. You kind of are just saying "it's true because I believe it, and anyone who doesn't believe it is lost", which is silly.