I don't get Atheism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP Here. I am an atheist. My observations, in a historical context, tell me people use religion/Theism to explain away what they don't understand. In every case, as our scientific knowledge expands, we (humans) learn that something more is understood.

Thunder? Caused by the shock wave from the rapid expansion of air cause by the heating effect of lightening.

Lightening? Static discharge.

These are not caused by Thor.

Blood moon? A lunar eclipse where the light refracting around the earth is more red.

What we don't understand is not because of a deity, but because we haven't figured it out yet.

Yes but the Christian God according to me myself and I plus the others at my church, is a metaphor for what we don't know yet. To learn about the unknown is to seek the Christian God. It's not that we are learning about electricity, but seeking the Christian God.

Studying evolution? Seeking the Christian God

Space exploration? Seeking the Christian God

By learning about science, you've served the metaphorical Christian God. You, are a good Christian and should come join our group.

McLeanAtheist

[Anonymous]

McLean atheist, you still have no idea what you're talking about. It's been explained to you by other posters and myself. At this point, I will accept that you don't care about learning about religion. It's a fascinating thing, but not if you can't see it as a whole.

Peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to think more about the Santa Claus metaphor. Is Santa Claus real? Of course he is. He is me and every other parent who is Santa Claus. Just because he is not the kind of person who can be killed, who has one single body, does not mean he is either a metaphor or that he does not exist. He clearly exists. His actions are entirely predictable. They take the same form everywhere. He is not just a metaphor, as he really delivers the gifts. He is not just parents play acting. Why on earth would parents all over the world play act like this? Even parents who are not Christian do it. It is not just culture. It is not just peer pressure. It is not just not wanting to disappoint your children.

Some things are real even if they are not corporal and even if they were created.

You are conflating the concept of Santa with the Santa as described by fairy tale, these are not the same thing. Sure the concept of Santa is very real, but the the fairy tale Santa Claus is said to live in the north pole and have a team of elves and several flying reindeers, including one with a glowing nose. I have not seen any proof that there is someone who live in the north pole with a team of elves and flying reindeers. The fairy tale Santa Claus almost certainly does not exist - I don't know with absolute certainty, but there's no satisfactory evidence that he exists.

Now personally, it doesn't really make much of a difference that Santa Claus is only a metaphor, life goes on. Everyone is happy. But Christianity is not claiming a metaphor of God, but an actual existing God. A God who created our universe, as opposed to some natural process; made us in his image, as opposed to the process of evolution; gave us the commandment that he is the only God we should serve, as opposed to be free thinkers to follow other sources of moral guidance; and who will upon death damn us to eternal hell fire unless we accept Jesus as savior, as oppose to just becoming a decomposing biological heap of nothing. To satisfactorily explain this God as nothing but a metaphor, you'll have to explain the relevant and useful illustrated by each of these points.

McLeanAtheist

You are describing the fundamentalist God -- I'm guessing it's the one that you hear the most about in popular media without having to crack a book yourself. There are many, many christian clergy and lay people who eschew this simplistic version of God.

Also using the terminology "nothing but a metaphor" suggests that you think metaphors are not very important and there is a lot of disagreement about that as well. And your readers don't "have to explain" anything -- you are not the ultimate authority here, though you may perceive yourself as such.

Fundamentalist or not, it's the God claimed by Christians to exist, not just as a metaphor, but actually exists. Again, there maybe some people out there who thinks God is just a metaphor, but they are in error if they call themselves Christians - I don't care what/how they believe, I'm just pointing out that they are not Christians.

Regarding "nothing but a metaphor", I think metaphors have excellent value as a communication method. But it pales in comparison to the claims of the powers and capabilities of the Christian God.

McLeanAtheist

Why so stuck on the Christian god? You could discuss any number of deities, but return again and again to the Christian god. I wonder what that means. I think it means something significant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to think more about the Santa Claus metaphor. Is Santa Claus real? Of course he is. He is me and every other parent who is Santa Claus. Just because he is not the kind of person who can be killed, who has one single body, does not mean he is either a metaphor or that he does not exist. He clearly exists. His actions are entirely predictable. They take the same form everywhere. He is not just a metaphor, as he really delivers the gifts. He is not just parents play acting. Why on earth would parents all over the world play act like this? Even parents who are not Christian do it. It is not just culture. It is not just peer pressure. It is not just not wanting to disappoint your children.

Some things are real even if they are not corporal and even if they were created.

You are conflating the concept of Santa with the Santa as described by fairy tale, these are not the same thing. Sure the concept of Santa is very real, but the the fairy tale Santa Claus is said to live in the north pole and have a team of elves and several flying reindeers, including one with a glowing nose. I have not seen any proof that there is someone who live in the north pole with a team of elves and flying reindeers. The fairy tale Santa Claus almost certainly does not exist - I don't know with absolute certainty, but there's no satisfactory evidence that he exists.

Now personally, it doesn't really make much of a difference that Santa Claus is only a metaphor, life goes on. Everyone is happy. But Christianity is not claiming a metaphor of God, but an actual existing God. A God who created our universe, as opposed to some natural process; made us in his image, as opposed to the process of evolution; gave us the commandment that he is the only God we should serve, as opposed to be free thinkers to follow other sources of moral guidance; and who will upon death damn us to eternal hell fire unless we accept Jesus as savior, as oppose to just becoming a decomposing biological heap of nothing. To satisfactorily explain this God as nothing but a metaphor, you'll have to explain the relevant and useful illustrated by each of these points.

McLeanAtheist

You are describing the fundamentalist God -- I'm guessing it's the one that you hear the most about in popular media without having to crack a book yourself. There are many, many christian clergy and lay people who eschew this simplistic version of God.

Also using the terminology "nothing but a metaphor" suggests that you think metaphors are not very important and there is a lot of disagreement about that as well. And your readers don't "have to explain" anything -- you are not the ultimate authority here, though you may perceive yourself as such.

Fundamentalist or not, it's the God claimed by Christians to exist, not just as a metaphor, but actually exists. Again, there maybe some people out there who thinks God is just a metaphor, but they are in error if they call themselves Christians - I don't care what/how they believe, I'm just pointing out that they are not Christians.

Regarding "nothing but a metaphor", I think metaphors have excellent value as a communication method. But it pales in comparison to the claims of the powers and capabilities of the Christian God.

McLeanAtheist

Why so stuck on the Christian god? You could discuss any number of deities, but return again and again to the Christian god. I wonder what that means. I think it means something significant.

It's because the Christian God (or more accurately, God) is the only one who calls us to account to acknowledge our sinfulness and accept His offer of Christ as an atonement for our sins. It's a free gift, freely given, and all God asks is the you believe Him when He says you need it. Every other religious belief system on Earth -- every one -- requires that you work for your salvation. Christianity (properly understood) is the only one in which we are justified by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) and not by works. This is one of the reasons I believe it. It takes a awesomely good God to look at all the bad things I do (and you, too) and say that He'll redeem me anyway if I'll just accept His Son.

[Anonymous]

Really, it's like I tell my children when they ask about church and religion. I tell them that the world is a scary place and some people need to believe in some kind of magic to help them deal with it. It doesn't make them bad people to need this, it is just how some people have been raised. We are fortunate in that we do not have the burden of beliefs in magic to regulate our behavior and explain our world. We are compassionate skeptics who are not afraid to face the world, both the beautiful and the tragic aspects. We are awake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to think more about the Santa Claus metaphor. Is Santa Claus real? Of course he is. He is me and every other parent who is Santa Claus. Just because he is not the kind of person who can be killed, who has one single body, does not mean he is either a metaphor or that he does not exist. He clearly exists. His actions are entirely predictable. They take the same form everywhere. He is not just a metaphor, as he really delivers the gifts. He is not just parents play acting. Why on earth would parents all over the world play act like this? Even parents who are not Christian do it. It is not just culture. It is not just peer pressure. It is not just not wanting to disappoint your children.

Some things are real even if they are not corporal and even if they were created.

You are conflating the concept of Santa with the Santa as described by fairy tale, these are not the same thing. Sure the concept of Santa is very real, but the the fairy tale Santa Claus is said to live in the north pole and have a team of elves and several flying reindeers, including one with a glowing nose. I have not seen any proof that there is someone who live in the north pole with a team of elves and flying reindeers. The fairy tale Santa Claus almost certainly does not exist - I don't know with absolute certainty, but there's no satisfactory evidence that he exists.

Now personally, it doesn't really make much of a difference that Santa Claus is only a metaphor, life goes on. Everyone is happy. But Christianity is not claiming a metaphor of God, but an actual existing God. A God who created our universe, as opposed to some natural process; made us in his image, as opposed to the process of evolution; gave us the commandment that he is the only God we should serve, as opposed to be free thinkers to follow other sources of moral guidance; and who will upon death damn us to eternal hell fire unless we accept Jesus as savior, as oppose to just becoming a decomposing biological heap of nothing. To satisfactorily explain this God as nothing but a metaphor, you'll have to explain the relevant and useful illustrated by each of these points.

McLeanAtheist

You are describing the fundamentalist God -- I'm guessing it's the one that you hear the most about in popular media without having to crack a book yourself. There are many, many christian clergy and lay people who eschew this simplistic version of God.

Also using the terminology "nothing but a metaphor" suggests that you think metaphors are not very important and there is a lot of disagreement about that as well. And your readers don't "have to explain" anything -- you are not the ultimate authority here, though you may perceive yourself as such.

Fundamentalist or not, it's the God claimed by Christians to exist, not just as a metaphor, but actually exists. Again, there maybe some people out there who thinks God is just a metaphor, but they are in error if they call themselves Christians - I don't care what/how they believe, I'm just pointing out that they are not Christians.

Regarding "nothing but a metaphor", I think metaphors have excellent value as a communication method. But it pales in comparison to the claims of the powers and capabilities of the Christian God.

McLeanAtheist

Why so stuck on the Christian god? You could discuss any number of deities, but return again and again to the Christian god. I wonder what that means. I think it means something significant.

It's because the Christian God (or more accurately, God) is the only one who calls us to account to acknowledge our sinfulness and accept His offer of Christ as an atonement for our sins. It's a free gift, freely given, and all God asks is the you believe Him when He says you need it. Every other religious belief system on Earth -- every one -- requires that you work for your salvation. Christianity (properly understood) is the only one in which we are justified by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) and not by works. This is one of the reasons I believe it. It takes a awesomely good God to look at all the bad things I do (and you, too) and say that He'll redeem me anyway if I'll just accept His Son.

Also sounds like the easy way out -- if you think believing in a god is necessary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why so stuck on the Christian god? You could discuss any number of deities, but return again and again to the Christian god. I wonder what that means. I think it means something significant.

Not stuck on the Christian God. It's just something specific to give context to the debate of ideas. It avoids the case where people go around in circles focusing on the minutiae. Unfortunately, it was not specific enough, since apparently the Christian God can be metaphoric.

McLeanAtheist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McLean atheist, you still have no idea what you're talking about. It's been explained to you by other posters and myself. At this point, I will accept that you don't care about learning about religion. It's a fascinating thing, but not if you can't see it as a whole.

Peace.

Good exchange. We'll encounter each other in other threads, I am sure.

McLeanAtheist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to think more about the Santa Claus metaphor. Is Santa Claus real? Of course he is. He is me and every other parent who is Santa Claus. Just because he is not the kind of person who can be killed, who has one single body, does not mean he is either a metaphor or that he does not exist. He clearly exists. His actions are entirely predictable. They take the same form everywhere. He is not just a metaphor, as he really delivers the gifts. He is not just parents play acting. Why on earth would parents all over the world play act like this? Even parents who are not Christian do it. It is not just culture. It is not just peer pressure. It is not just not wanting to disappoint your children.

Some things are real even if they are not corporal and even if they were created.

You are conflating the concept of Santa with the Santa as described by fairy tale, these are not the same thing. Sure the concept of Santa is very real, but the the fairy tale Santa Claus is said to live in the north pole and have a team of elves and several flying reindeers, including one with a glowing nose. I have not seen any proof that there is someone who live in the north pole with a team of elves and flying reindeers. The fairy tale Santa Claus almost certainly does not exist - I don't know with absolute certainty, but there's no satisfactory evidence that he exists.

Now personally, it doesn't really make much of a difference that Santa Claus is only a metaphor, life goes on. Everyone is happy. But Christianity is not claiming a metaphor of God, but an actual existing God. A God who created our universe, as opposed to some natural process; made us in his image, as opposed to the process of evolution; gave us the commandment that he is the only God we should serve, as opposed to be free thinkers to follow other sources of moral guidance; and who will upon death damn us to eternal hell fire unless we accept Jesus as savior, as oppose to just becoming a decomposing biological heap of nothing. To satisfactorily explain this God as nothing but a metaphor, you'll have to explain the relevant and useful illustrated by each of these points.

McLeanAtheist

You are describing the fundamentalist God -- I'm guessing it's the one that you hear the most about in popular media without having to crack a book yourself. There are many, many christian clergy and lay people who eschew this simplistic version of God.

Also using the terminology "nothing but a metaphor" suggests that you think metaphors are not very important and there is a lot of disagreement about that as well. And your readers don't "have to explain" anything -- you are not the ultimate authority here, though you may perceive yourself as such.

Fundamentalist or not, it's the God claimed by Christians to exist, not just as a metaphor, but actually exists. Again, there maybe some people out there who thinks God is just a metaphor, but they are in error if they call themselves Christians - I don't care what/how they believe, I'm just pointing out that they are not Christians.

Regarding "nothing but a metaphor", I think metaphors have excellent value as a communication method. But it pales in comparison to the claims of the powers and capabilities of the Christian God.

McLeanAtheist

Why so stuck on the Christian god? You could discuss any number of deities, but return again and again to the Christian god. I wonder what that means. I think it means something significant.

It's because the Christian God (or more accurately, God) is the only one who calls us to account to acknowledge our sinfulness and accept His offer of Christ as an atonement for our sins. It's a free gift, freely given, and all God asks is the you believe Him when He says you need it. Every other religious belief system on Earth -- every one -- requires that you work for your salvation. Christianity (properly understood) is the only one in which we are justified by faith (Ephesians 2:8-9) and not by works. This is one of the reasons I believe it. It takes a awesomely good God to look at all the bad things I do (and you, too) and say that He'll redeem me anyway if I'll just accept His Son.

Your concept of god is that of an indulgent parent that has no standards, no expectations of his children, and doles out their allowances no matter what they do.