the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

I read War and Peace for fun because I had never read it in school. It was a slog in places, but I loved it. Tolstoy is cheeky.

My kids read for fun. Were also fortunate to have some teachers in MCPS that assigned full books and analyzed in depth. Their penchant for reading definitely helped them stand out with their teachers. Both in STEM magnets. But, they also conveyed this in their apps, which I would think is part of what attracted T15 schools to them. Neither applied to Columbia though.

Exactly, I love Tolstoy and I also read it for fun one summer. There are some dated parts about gender relations specifically, but as a full novel it's magnificent. Even with all the tangents (ie. Battle of Waterloo) it was such a meaningful read.

PP here. Agreed! It really made me think about the randomness of war. Good times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious how many of the parents lamenting the easy As handed out in high schools would actually freak out if their kids came home with Bs and Cs.

Well, I did exactly that and wanted that outcome. I moved my kid to private specifically to avoid the easy As, and that kid got two Cs his first semester after being an easy 4.0 student. It may in fact have impacted his college chances. I did not care because my goals were longer than college. DC is now a young adult who is soaring, and part of that is his discipline and capacity for hard work.

Kids need to learn hard work and discipline at some point. If they don’t learn it in high school or college, they learn it on their first job, which is not an ideal spot to learn.

Good for you! College is not a final destination. It's only one stop on a long journey of growth. Optimizing for long-term life growth versus entry into college seems wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

yep. I knew responses would be filled with “this is only public schools!” smh.


This is an issue across socioeconomic classes. Also, happening in public AND private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious how many of the parents lamenting the easy As handed out in high schools would actually freak out if their kids came home with Bs and Cs.

Well, I did exactly that and wanted that outcome. I moved my kid to private specifically to avoid the easy As, and that kid got two Cs his first semester after being an easy 4.0 student. It may in fact have impacted his college chances. I did not care because my goals were longer than college. DC is now a young adult who is soaring, and part of that is his discipline and capacity for hard work.

Kids need to learn hard work and discipline at some point. If they don’t learn it in high school or college, they learn it on their first job, which is not an ideal spot to learn.

So, assume you are then a big supporter of anything that instills discipline and a capacity for hard work…dedicated athletes, working part time jobs, etc.

There are many book smart kids that don’t have the capacity for actual work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

yep. I knew responses would be filled with “this is only public schools!” smh.


This is an issue across socioeconomic classes. Also, happening in public AND private schools.

That may be true, but if you can afford to choose among private schools, you can choose to attend schools that still assign books and higher standards of grading. None of the public schools in our area assign whole books anymore starting in middle school. I don't understand why it has come to this, and it is really not fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

yep. I knew responses would be filled with “this is only public schools!” smh.


This is an issue across socioeconomic classes. Also, happening in public AND private schools.

Yes, but there is a question of degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

Perhaps, but as someone who moved her kids from public to private because of education quality, whether a private requires extensive reading is something that is easily determined. Also, requiring reading is becoming an admissions marketing point now, because private schools know people leave public for this reason.

My kid is at a private school in the SF Bay area. They read 4 full novels a year in 11th grade. (2 novels in 9th, 3 in 10th)

My public high schooler in CA reads 5-6 novels a year with two more over the summer. It’s pretty much the same experience I had growing up. Reading, followed by analytical essays. I actually think his English teachers are much better than my own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree that club sports and other time-consuming but mindless extracurriculars are what's pushing out actual college prep activities like reading & analyzing multiple difficult several hundred page novels and more deriving of mathematical proofs and immersive academic activities like independent studies.

Our current grind culture (team sports and checking off all these boxes) is crushing imagination and critical thinking to dust.

💯
My kid would love to read more, but she has to volunteer and do a school club and show leadership and uniqueness and originality and prep for SAT and get a 4.0 and blah blah blah blah

Don’t forget that she needs to start a non-profit!

[Anonymous]

I told my kid this story and she said she's getting more excerpts in college than HS.

[Anonymous]

As a private school teacher, for years schools assigned whole books that students never read and just looked at the spark notes. Many parents here pat their backs for choosing the “right” kind of school, but their kids likely have lacking reading comprehension and attention to detail like previous generations. It’s an across school-type issue.

[Anonymous]

Not sure if someone already posted, but here's a response to the article from the teacher referenced in it:

https://cmsthomas.substack.com/p/the-atlantic-did-me-dirty

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

Yes, but many privates have dropped classic literature, which means the students arrive in college without the essential cultural background to understand allusions made in the college-level readings.

Allusions are always culturally bound and they do go obsolete. There was a great article in the New Yorker a few years ago about generational change and what people understand about the key cultural reference points of earlier generations. It's always discomfiting to discover that your cultural reference touchpoints are not known to younger people.

With the modern understanding that more types of peoples' experiences are worthy of study, kids are not receiving as common a literary foundation as in years past. I don't feel this is undermining our shared culture in any way as much as the changes in information flow (Internet, social media, mainstream vs. narrowcasted news).

In other words, the battles between the Murdoch heirs probably have more impact on our society than making sure everyone has read the Iliad, Great Expectations, and 1984.

You also don’t need to read every classic under the sun. It makes more sense to have relatable modern lot that kids can analyze with their contemporary frameworks. James Joyce isn’t going to teach your kid much without a reader and dictionary attached to their hip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

Yes, but many privates have dropped classic literature, which means the students arrive in college without the essential cultural background to understand allusions made in the college-level readings.

Allusions are always culturally bound and they do go obsolete. There was a great article in the New Yorker a few years ago about generational change and what people understand about the key cultural reference points of earlier generations. It's always discomfiting to discover that your cultural reference touchpoints are not known to younger people.

With the modern understanding that more types of peoples' experiences are worthy of study, kids are not receiving as common a literary foundation as in years past. I don't feel this is undermining our shared culture in any way as much as the changes in information flow (Internet, social media, mainstream vs. narrowcasted news).

In other words, the battles between the Murdoch heirs probably have more impact on our society than making sure everyone has read the Iliad, Great Expectations, and 1984.

You also don’t need to read every classic under the sun. It makes more sense to have relatable modern lot that kids can analyze with their contemporary frameworks. James Joyce isn’t going to teach your kid much without a reader and dictionary attached to their hip.

The professor that gave a rebuttal in PP said The Odyssey is a class favorite because modern translations use modern vernacular that is more easily accessible vs a translation from the 19th or 20th century.

I bet if DCUM existed 100 years ago you would have parents lamenting kids that aren’t forced to learn Greek and Latin anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if someone already posted, but here's a response to the article from the teacher referenced in it:

https://cmsthomas.substack.com/p/the-atlantic-did-me-dirty

"And that’s a good thing, since Gen Z and Gen Alpha don’t cow to authority for authority’s sake. They simply won’t do things they don’t want to do, and I actually kinda love that."

a fine line, there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

Yes, but many privates have dropped classic literature, which means the students arrive in college without the essential cultural background to understand allusions made in the college-level readings.

Allusions are always culturally bound and they do go obsolete. There was a great article in the New Yorker a few years ago about generational change and what people understand about the key cultural reference points of earlier generations. It's always discomfiting to discover that your cultural reference touchpoints are not known to younger people.

With the modern understanding that more types of peoples' experiences are worthy of study, kids are not receiving as common a literary foundation as in years past. I don't feel this is undermining our shared culture in any way as much as the changes in information flow (Internet, social media, mainstream vs. narrowcasted news).

In other words, the battles between the Murdoch heirs probably have more impact on our society than making sure everyone has read the Iliad, Great Expectations, and 1984.

You also don’t need to read every classic under the sun. It makes more sense to have relatable modern lot that kids can analyze with their contemporary frameworks. James Joyce isn’t going to teach your kid much without a reader and dictionary attached to their hip.

The professor that gave a rebuttal in PP said The Odyssey is a class favorite because modern translations use modern vernacular that is more easily accessible vs a translation from the 19th or 20th century.

I bet if DCUM existed 100 years ago you would have parents lamenting kids that aren’t forced to learn Greek and Latin anymore.

Right... Just assign BookTalk. Problem solved.