Why do donut hole families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For us the final straw was filling out the fAfsa and getting a question about whether my military husband had deployed to a combat zone in the past three years so the college could make sure to slurp up that danger pay that my husband put his as on the line for — especially since the form doesn’t ask about CEO bonuses, foreign service differentials etc. So many bad assumptions attached to that questions like the assumption that when you raise your kids alone for six months it costs the same as when you have a partner to help with the driving etc. or that people don’t cut back their own hours when their spouse deploys. Imagine if airlines raised the prices because someone’s husband got deployed it’s that level of stupidity that were objecting to.

1) that’s not why they ask about combat

2) it does ask about ALL bonuses because they are W-2 income or stock assets.

Educate yourself first and then post.

Why do they ask about combat?

So that it is properly excluded as an additional income source:

Don’t include extended foster care benefits, student aid, earned income credit, child tax credit, welfare payments, untaxed Social Security benefits, Supplemental Security Income, Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act educational benefits, on-base military housing or military housing allowance, combat pay, benefits from flexible spending arrangements (e.g., cafeteria plans), foreign income exclusion, or credit for federal tax on special fuels.

+1
There is actually a lot of support for veterans in the FAFSA system and they are careful that they get their due benefits. It's one of the strengths.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Most poor kids are at community college cobbling together loans, grants and working. Only a small sliver are at schools that offer full grant-based financial aid.

Not to mention, top schools offering significant FA is a new development. If you are a parent of a college-bound kid now, but you went to college 30 years ago, you probably had to take out loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Right. It’s about people who the institutions think can afford college, and the fact those people disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Poor people get financial aid that includes loans and according to “choices people choices” poster it was inconceivable that someone would have student loans to pay back while starting a family. They were supposed to not go to college or not have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Poor people get financial aid that includes loans and according to “choices people choices” poster it was inconceivable that someone would have student loans to pay back while starting a family. They were supposed to not go to college or not have kids.

That PP was very obviously being sarcastic and agrees with you.

[Anonymous]

I had a low-income single mom and was elated to receive full financial aid to a slac with no professional programs. Always encouraged by profs, fellowship committees and peers to go into a helping/social justice profession. It appealed to my empathetic side, my peers were doing the same and I was frankly clueless about what a low salary really means long term because of upbringing.

I will never be able to send my kids to the same slac I attended because I had kids late and am squarely in the donut hole. I absolutely made all the choices that led me to this place but I wish I understood the full ramifications at 18. All I can do now is be direct and informed with my children in the hopes their children have broader options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a low-income single mom and was elated to receive full financial aid to a slac with no professional programs. Always encouraged by profs, fellowship committees and peers to go into a helping/social justice profession. It appealed to my empathetic side, my peers were doing the same and I was frankly clueless about what a low salary really means long term because of upbringing.

I will never be able to send my kids to the same slac I attended because I had kids late and am squarely in the donut hole. I absolutely made all the choices that led me to this place but I wish I understood the full ramifications at 18. All I can do now is be direct and informed with my children in the hopes their children have broader options.

Fair, so you're saying you wouldn't necessarily have chosen the helping/social justice profession. That's fair, my DH and I were both FGLI and majored in humanities and ended up as a music teacher and a non-profit employee and our kids will have more of a budget when choosing colleges. What profession do you wish you had entered instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Right. It’s about people who the institutions think can afford college, and the fact those people disagree.

They disagree b/c they usually CAN'T. It's not reasonable to expect those families to spend every penny earned/saved and it sucks they have to accept an alternative scenario simply bc they can't do so. Yes, sorry, I still would like to save for retirement while my child is in college. And have healthcare. That cancer I had a few years back makes that necessary.

[Anonymous]

My firm recruits kids out of undergrad for some roles at $130k salaries with high bonus potential. That’s only from top schools, though, but it is the most desirable line of service. For the other lines of service (recruited from other schools) you’re starting at more like $70-95k. Good luck switching to the most desirable LOS without an MBA from a top school.

That’s why the rat race to get into top schools persists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Right. It’s about people who the institutions think can afford college, and the fact those people disagree.

They disagree b/c they usually CAN'T. It's not reasonable to expect those families to spend every penny earned/saved and it sucks they have to accept an alternative scenario simply bc they can't do so. Yes, sorry, I still would like to save for retirement while my child is in college. And have healthcare. That cancer I had a few years back makes that necessary.

Then, your kids are like the rest of our kids who go to their state public schools. We've saved since birth. You need to plan for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Right. It’s about people who the institutions think can afford college, and the fact those people disagree.

You think you are entitled to live in a million dollar house and your kids get a free ride to college. Nope, you save and your kids go to state schools. Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Right. It’s about people who the institutions think can afford college, and the fact those people disagree.

You think you are entitled to live in a million dollar house and your kids get a free ride to college. Nope, you save and your kids go to state schools. Simple.

My house is a 600k house and my kid will be in state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

It's absurd to characterize 250k families as privileged in 2023. After taxes, there is not much left.

Yes, it is. Median household income in the United States is under $71K. It’s no one else’s fault that you *chose* to live in one of the most expensive housing markets in the country.

DCUM’s ideas about income are delusional.

Silly teachers, nurses, fire fighters, etc choosing to live in expensive areas. They should all just commute a couple hours.

Actually teachers, nurses, fire fighters are all professions that are needed everywhere (in all geographic areas) unlike some jobs which are concentrated in certain areas. No one is saying to commute several hours but those are jobs where moving and working in a lower cost of living area would be beneficial.

Personally I have an almost 2 year old and am looking at jobs in LCOL areas for this reason. I looked at my salary which is in the 80 percentile of the US and the fact that rent + unsubsidized daycare (I get a 10K childcare grant from my employer based on my income which helps) is more than I take home in a month. I realized have to get out of the Bay Area if I have any hope of savings, home ownership, second child, etc. I wish I could stay in California because I love it, have a great community here, lots of support, but it is financially unwise. And I drive a 20+ year old car which can't compensate for living in a HCOL area. So I get why people with 250K are scoffing at the idea that just being more frugal would solve their problem given how hard it is to make ends meet in HCOL area.

I have a close friend in NYC who wants me to move there while she simultaneously complains about how much in debt her family is. I get the attachment to NYC but some of their financial problems would be eased by living elsewhere. It just reality.

I do agree though that the system sucks and college should be more affordable for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all those who claim they didn't know what it was going to cost... that is BS, you didn't educate yourself. The information flow started with the advent of the internet, it has been in the news for 2 decades, savingforcollege.com came online at that time. We chose our family size because of the impending cost of college. That was 20 years ago. The information was there, you were ignorant bc you didn't inform yourself.

You waited until you were married to start saving for your future kids college? Why not earlier? SO weird you didn't plan even earlier, like you said the writing has been on the wall for decades.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people have student loans of their own, medical expenses or are low-paid.

Choices, people, choices.

Poor people shouldn’t go to college, got it

Poor people get financial aid. That’s not who the discussion is about.

Right. It’s about people who the institutions think can afford college, and the fact those people disagree.

You think you are entitled to live in a million dollar house and your kids get a free ride to college. Nope, you save and your kids go to state schools. Simple.

My house is a 600k house and my kid will be in state.

And, we have a 400K house so we saved that 200K you spent on a house for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

It's absurd to characterize 250k families as privileged in 2023. After taxes, there is not much left.

Yes, it is. Median household income in the United States is under $71K. It’s no one else’s fault that you *chose* to live in one of the most expensive housing markets in the country.

DCUM’s ideas about income are delusional.

Silly teachers, nurses, fire fighters, etc choosing to live in expensive areas. They should all just commute a couple hours.

Actually teachers, nurses, fire fighters are all professions that are needed everywhere (in all geographic areas) unlike some jobs which are concentrated in certain areas. No one is saying to commute several hours but those are jobs where moving and working in a lower cost of living area would be beneficial.

Personally I have an almost 2 year old and am looking at jobs in LCOL areas for this reason. I looked at my salary which is in the 80 percentile of the US and the fact that rent + unsubsidized daycare (I get a 10K childcare grant from my employer based on my income which helps) is more than I take home in a month. I realized have to get out of the Bay Area if I have any hope of savings, home ownership, second child, etc. I wish I could stay in California because I love it, have a great community here, lots of support, but it is financially unwise. And I drive a 20+ year old car which can't compensate for living in a HCOL area. So I get why people with 250K are scoffing at the idea that just being more frugal would solve their problem given how hard it is to make ends meet in HCOL area.

I have a close friend in NYC who wants me to move there while she simultaneously complains about how much in debt her family is. I get the attachment to NYC but some of their financial problems would be eased by living elsewhere. It just reality.

I do agree though that the system sucks and college should be more affordable for everyone.

My spouse has a 60-90 minute commute. It is what it is.