My child attends an elite college. It is overrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love bottom rung morons who repeat that “college only matters for your first job” nonsense. Your college remains on your resume for 40 to 50 years. Yale is going to pop off your resume when you’re job hopping in your 30s and 40s and the selection committee internally refers to you as the “Yale guy.” Only folks who went to bottom rung colleges think credential prestige doesn’t matter past age 22 — and you all don’t really even believe it, you just wish it was true.

It's certanly a plus in general, but there are many other important factors as well.
It can also negatively impact if your performance is not at the level.
That guy went to 'mit'? scoff

It also sets a high bar. I'm always concerned when I see a "drop" between undergrad and graduate school in terms of prestige. It someone did undergrad at Yale but some podunk graduate program, I tend to assume they were coached into the undergraduate program with parental support but weren't actually able to perform once they arrived.

Sometimes they get scholarships at less prestigious colleges for graduate schools.
I personally know this.

Bullsh*t. This is spin and you know it. Prestige whores don't value shop graduate school.

The student I knew went to Ivy League for undergrad because he got a big financial aid and majored in history.
He couldn’t find a good job he wanted then went to state university with full scholarship for his MBA.
Now he is in a job he likes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love bottom rung morons who repeat that “college only matters for your first job” nonsense. Your college remains on your resume for 40 to 50 years. Yale is going to pop off your resume when you’re job hopping in your 30s and 40s and the selection committee internally refers to you as the “Yale guy.” Only folks who went to bottom rung colleges think credential prestige doesn’t matter past age 22 — and you all don’t really even believe it, you just wish it was true.

It's certanly a plus in general, but there are many other important factors as well.
It can also negatively impact if your performance is not at the level.
That guy went to 'mit'? scoff

It also sets a high bar. I'm always concerned when I see a "drop" between undergrad and graduate school in terms of prestige. It someone did undergrad at Yale but some podunk graduate program, I tend to assume they were coached into the undergraduate program with parental support but weren't actually able to perform once they arrived.

Sometimes they get scholarships at less prestigious colleges for graduate schools.
I personally know this.

Bullsh*t. This is spin and you know it. Prestige whores don't value shop graduate school.

a) not everyone goes to Yale because it's prestigious--it actually has a few good programs.

b) sometimes a grad program at a less prestigious school is a far superior match for what the student wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elite universities provide opportunities that non-elite universities don't. That's a simply fact. If the students cannot take advantage of those opportunities during or after college, then it is on the student.

Elite universities meaning HYPSM. Not Northwestern, Hopkins, Duke, Cornell, Vanderbilt, etc.

A history major from Harvard can easily get interviews to the cream of the crop investment and consulting firms - McKinsey, Lazard, etc. GPA and extracurricular is not even taken into account.

That same student at UVa would need to be a finance major in McIntire with a 3.7 GPA and multiple industry-focused extracurriculars with leadership positions. Probably leadership positions in certain well-connected frats as well. For an interview.

That same student at Virginia Tech would not even get an interview, regardless of whether they have a 4.0 GPA and president of every industry-focused club. Top investment banking and consulting firms simply do not recruit at Virginia Tech.

The interview may itself be more meritocratic given both students perform similarly, but interviewers are biased towards elite universities and having employees from elite universities is a selling point for the firm to the clients.

Beyond the first job - which itself can be very important as it snowballs into better future opportunities and networks - having an elite university helps in both climbing the career ladder as higher positions are occupied by those from elite universities - regardless of whether it's due to nepotism, inherent drive or most likely both - and graduate school.

The facts belie your assumptions. Here's a link to a page that discusses a survey done by the Chronicle of Higher Education regarding what employers care about when hiring recent college grads. College prestige comes in dead last in terms of importance.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/5/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love bottom rung morons who repeat that “college only matters for your first job” nonsense. Your college remains on your resume for 40 to 50 years. Yale is going to pop off your resume when you’re job hopping in your 30s and 40s and the selection committee internally refers to you as the “Yale guy.” Only folks who went to bottom rung colleges think credential prestige doesn’t matter past age 22 — and you all don’t really even believe it, you just wish it was true.

I love elitists who think their degree allows them to just make stuff up and expect that everyone will believe them. Here's a study that shows you're pontificating in an empirical vacuum.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/5/

[Anonymous]

Seriously? You’re citing a money making stress reduction website as authority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Dear OP,
Please provide your perceived list of "elite colleges" so we can have context here.
Thanks!

Not the OP but
Carnegie Mellon Computer Engineeingn or UVA McIntire sounds more elite than Princeton gender study, Northwesetrn communicaitons, Yale psychology, Harvard art & film.

One thing is that the OP made a bad example.
Consulting or Finance postions after graduation from highly repected business programs or Econ/Math/Stem majors from top colleges(Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Northeastern) will get you 6 figure immediately.
OP should have said something like 'an Ivy kid getting a HR job for $5000 with a liberal art degree'.

You can send your kids to UVA while my kids attend Yale, Harvard, Princeton and Northwestern.

The Princeton grad I knew worked for one of the SAT prep companies tutoring high school students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Dear OP,
Please provide your perceived list of "elite colleges" so we can have context here.
Thanks!

Not the OP but
Carnegie Mellon Computer Engineeingn or UVA McIntire sounds more elite than Princeton gender study, Northwesetrn communicaitons, Yale psychology, Harvard art & film.

One thing is that the OP made a bad example.
Consulting or Finance postions after graduation from highly repected business programs or Econ/Math/Stem majors from top colleges(Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Northeastern) will get you 6 figure immediately.
OP should have said something like 'an Ivy kid getting a HR job for $5000 with a liberal art degree'.

You can send your kids to UVA while my kids attend Yale, Harvard, Princeton and Northwestern.

The Princeton grad I knew worked for one of the SAT prep companies tutoring high school students.

Well golly gee that must mean Princeton is terrible!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously? You’re citing a money making stress reduction website as authority?

No, I'm not. First, it's not a money making website--if it were, I wouldn't have cited it. Second, my reference is to a study by the Chronicle of Higher Education cited on the stress reduction website. I referenced the website because it reports the relevant information without requiring anyone on DCUM to have to sift through the entire report. If you'd like to go directly to the source, though, knock yourself out. It's 86 pages of very interesting reading on what employers value the most, with the prestige of the college ranking lowest of 8 factors. It's a great read for anyone who's interested in what really goes on in the minds of employers looking at recent college grads.

https://chronicle-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/5/items/biz/pdf/Employers%20Survey.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does elite mean here?

Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and perhaps Princeton & Yale are elite.

Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc. etc. are not.

And yes, even Harvard/MIT/Stanford/Princeton/Yale won't give your kid a $150k job, wealthy spouse (a 1950's reason to go to a elite school, but okay), and a wealthy, highly-connected friend group off the bat. And thank god for that.

The purpose of top schools is to have top professors and top students to learn from and compete with, and improve oneself in the process. Not a $150k job, wealthy spouse and highly-connected wealthy network.

What these schools do provide beyond the education though is a pedigree that lasts through 40+ years of one's careers, and certainly can come in handy down the line - if you want to use it.

As for the rest - Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Duke, etc., most people do not view these schools to be more "elite" than top state flagships like Berkeley, Michigan, etc. Most will consider these students to either be wealthy dumb kids (too dumb for HYPSM) or top middle-class kids, the same that attend top flagships.

Cornell, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, Northwestern, and Duke ARE elite, and people recognize them as such. They may not be great economic deals for UMC families who pay full freight and have UVA, Michigan, or Berkeley as an in-state option, but for those who receive substantial grant-based financial aid or have enough money that full-freight doesn’t matter, these are awesome schools with a high-quality lifestyle experience. Yes, they are not HPYSM, but no one thinks these students are dumb rich kids or the equivalent of a Roll Tide graduate.

Alabama is cutting edge in Aerospace Engineering. Mechanical Engineering is top notch too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Dear OP,
Please provide your perceived list of "elite colleges" so we can have context here.
Thanks!

Not the OP but
Carnegie Mellon Computer Engineeingn or UVA McIntire sounds more elite than Princeton gender study, Northwesetrn communicaitons, Yale psychology, Harvard art & film.

One thing is that the OP made a bad example.
Consulting or Finance postions after graduation from highly repected business programs or Econ/Math/Stem majors from top colleges(Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Northeastern) will get you 6 figure immediately.
OP should have said something like 'an Ivy kid getting a HR job for $5000 with a liberal art degree'.

You can send your kids to UVA while my kids attend Yale, Harvard, Princeton and Northwestern.

The Princeton grad I knew worked for one of the SAT prep companies tutoring high school students.

Funny, I know a Stanford grad who helps rich kids with their college application materials. She charges a ton too. Status conscious parents are easy to exploit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's too early to tell or maybe she just didn't capitalize on all the opportunities (I suspect very few do) but it most certainly has not changed her life. The thing I do notice is overall a higher percentage of deeply committed pre-med students than my son's peers at the state flagship. Other than that there's this laughable idea that an elite college is a golden ticket to a $150,000 job offer and a rich spouse and that's just not accurate. The plum six-figure job offers are scarce and go to the connected and elbowy overachievers with perfect grades. And generally the rich socialize with the rich. If you want your child in that orbit they need to be in that orbit by 9th grade at some ritzy prep or boarding school.

I have a niece at Cornell who is close with my daughter and she has had a similar experience. At Cornell the rich are in the rich kid sororities and fraternities.

A few years back we were caught up in the admissions frenzy but in retrospect it seems so nutty. I'm [now] far more impressed with a parent who tells me their kid is at a less selective school but just got into medical school than some Ivy League parent who tells me their ubiquitous kid is going into "consulting" for $60,000 a year or some second rate grad program.

Dear OP,
Please provide your perceived list of "elite colleges" so we can have context here.
Thanks!

Not the OP but
Carnegie Mellon Computer Engineeingn or UVA McIntire sounds more elite than Princeton gender study, Northwesetrn communicaitons, Yale psychology, Harvard art & film.

One thing is that the OP made a bad example.
Consulting or Finance postions after graduation from highly repected business programs or Econ/Math/Stem majors from top colleges(Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Northeastern) will get you 6 figure immediately.
OP should have said something like 'an Ivy kid getting a HR job for $5000 with a liberal art degree'.

You can send your kids to UVA while my kids attend Yale, Harvard, Princeton and Northwestern.

The Princeton grad I knew worked for one of the SAT prep companies tutoring high school students.

Well golly gee that must mean Princeton is terrible!

I just don't understand why it is hard for folks to accept that the average Harvard Art History Major will probably not earn as much $$ as a McIntire Finance Major.

They didn't pick Art History planning/expecting to go work at McKinsey. My cousin was Art History at Harvard and is now an Art History professor. He is happy with his life, but lives a modest existence.

Yes, there is a higher likelihood that a Harvard Art History major could wind up at Morgan Stanley (stripping out any family connections) vs. UVA, but we are talking it is 2% vs. 1%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to Duke and this is a pretty accurate (and bitter) summary. I wish I had gone to a cheaper school close to home, and maybe done pre med or something. But I wasn’t really organized enough to take advantage of the opportunities available. Oh well. I did end up going to law school on the cheap with scholarships so I learned my lesson!

Dook, without basketball, is basically Elon.

[Anonymous]

Interesting, the report linked above says “ Job candidates from flagship public colleges are most popular among employers in the study, followed by private not-for-profit colleges ”

Hmmm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to Duke and this is a pretty accurate (and bitter) summary. I wish I had gone to a cheaper school close to home, and maybe done pre med or something. But I wasn’t really organized enough to take advantage of the opportunities available. Oh well. I did end up going to law school on the cheap with scholarships so I learned my lesson!

Dook, without basketball, is basically Elon.

Couldn't even get into UNC?

[Anonymous]

You know who says getting into/attending an Elite College isn't a big deal?

Poor people and those who were rejected.

My favorite growing up: Im really smart but Im just not a good test taker.

Uh yeah. You're not that smart.