It's (finally) time for reparations. It's time for the US to pay its debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last month every American making less than $75k got a $1,200 check from the federal government. Does this count as reparations?

It counts as an example of how free money leads to chaos, looting and destruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, the key words are "present problems." Blacks in America today have problems today. So do poor whites. And immigrants. So lets fix what is front of us. We can't fix what is behind us.

Ok, but black people face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

Poor black people have more trauma and barriers than poor white people.

I disagree. They face unique challenges because of today's oppression. Is George Floyd dead because his great grandfather was a slave, or because a cop put a knee on his neck? Is it harder for a black person to buy a house today because of slavery or because they can't get a loan?
History may explain why these things happen, but it doesn't cause them. What we do right now causes today's problems. And the solutions are all right now as well.

Well, George Floyd wouldn't even be in Minneapolis if the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery. If he, his father, and grandfather had more opportunities then maybe he wouldn't have been an out-of-work bouncer who was possibly writing a forged check. If the US hadn't allowed white supremacy to flourish for centuries then perhaps the MPD wouldn't have had such a toxic, racist culture and officers like Chauvin would have been kicked out long ago. There are a series of historical atrocities that led to his death.

It's not just slavery - the issue is that the US has allowed white supremacy to go unchecked for centuries. Slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. Those are all manifestations with "residual harm".

Certainly, black people DO face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

If the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery, he'd be in West Africa. Then what?

I'm not arguing with you about the history is. I am arguing about the meaning of it for today and what to do about it.

All of that led to where we are today. It all led to his death. That is the meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last month every American making less than $75k got a $1,200 check from the federal government. Does this count as reparations?

It counts as an example of how free money leads to chaos, looting and destruction.

Please explain that connection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But I have a serious problem with justifying correcting today's problems because of what happened 400 years ago.

Why do you repeatedly refer to “400 years ago”? Seems like an attempt to falsely create distance from the very recent atrocities in our country.

Because that's the justification for "reparations," in the article. The justification is that BECAUSE this has been going on for 400 years, black people are entitled to something. That's very different from saying George Floyd's family should be compensated or we should reform the police today.

Saying "because of what happened 400 years ago" is very different than "because of what has happened for the last 400 years" - and given how precise you are with language it appears that you are intentionally distancing the atrocities.

Over what time period do you think the US has systematically oppressed black people and done harm?

How old do you think this country is?

Hint: the United States declared independence in 1776.

Black people have been transported and oppressed in the Americas for longer than 400 years, but the transatlantic slave trade began in earnest when the first human cargo arrived in Virginia in 1619.
https://time.com/5653369/august-1619-jamestown-history/

Slavery started in Africa with......... you guessed it......... Africans.

That doesn’t mean here in US they have been pushed down relentless.

How do fix that? Reparations ain’t it. Nobody (including myself) is going to give up their job, status, wealth, pay more taxes, or any other measure you can come up with to fix what has been happening. Why should I!? I’m an immigrant who has worked hard to have what I have.

They HAVE been pushed down relentlessly over the last 400 years.

[Anonymous]

Are reparations proposed as replacing affirmative action or ancillary to affirmative action? One-time payment or continue SDO'C's 25-year plan?
And yes, how would the recipients be determined? Same way GU pays tuition for descendants of the enslaved that built the institution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Too many variables:

1. Who gets it? All Black people, or just poor Black people? Do African immigrants get it? What about mixed race? DNA to determine the amount? Right here is an almost impossible task.

2. How much do they get? Per person. Per slave ancestor?

3. Who pays for it? Government? Go find the descendants of former slave owners? Many of them likely are dirt poor.

Until there are some answers to these questions that are reasonable, this can never and shouldn't happen.

So you'd theoretically support reparations if we could work out the logistics to handle it fairly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, the key words are "present problems." Blacks in America today have problems today. So do poor whites. And immigrants. So lets fix what is front of us. We can't fix what is behind us.

Ok, but black people face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

Poor black people have more trauma and barriers than poor white people.

I disagree. They face unique challenges because of today's oppression. Is George Floyd dead because his great grandfather was a slave, or because a cop put a knee on his neck? Is it harder for a black person to buy a house today because of slavery or because they can't get a loan?
History may explain why these things happen, but it doesn't cause them. What we do right now causes today's problems. And the solutions are all right now as well.

Well, George Floyd wouldn't even be in Minneapolis if the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery. If he, his father, and grandfather had more opportunities then maybe he wouldn't have been an out-of-work bouncer who was possibly writing a forged check. If the US hadn't allowed white supremacy to flourish for centuries then perhaps the MPD wouldn't have had such a toxic, racist culture and officers like Chauvin would have been kicked out long ago. There are a series of historical atrocities that led to his death.

It's not just slavery - the issue is that the US has allowed white supremacy to go unchecked for centuries. Slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. Those are all manifestations with "residual harm".

Certainly, black people DO face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

If the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery, he'd be in West Africa. Then what?

I'm not arguing with you about the history is. I am arguing about the meaning of it for today and what to do about it.

All of that led to where we are today. It all led to his death. That is the meaning.

I agree. But it doesn't mean he is entitled to amy payment for whatever happened to his grandfather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, the key words are "present problems." Blacks in America today have problems today. So do poor whites. And immigrants. So lets fix what is front of us. We can't fix what is behind us.

Ok, but black people face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

Poor black people have more trauma and barriers than poor white people.

I disagree. They face unique challenges because of today's oppression. Is George Floyd dead because his great grandfather was a slave, or because a cop put a knee on his neck? Is it harder for a black person to buy a house today because of slavery or because they can't get a loan?
History may explain why these things happen, but it doesn't cause them. What we do right now causes today's problems. And the solutions are all right now as well.

Well, George Floyd wouldn't even be in Minneapolis if the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery. If he, his father, and grandfather had more opportunities then maybe he wouldn't have been an out-of-work bouncer who was possibly writing a forged check. If the US hadn't allowed white supremacy to flourish for centuries then perhaps the MPD wouldn't have had such a toxic, racist culture and officers like Chauvin would have been kicked out long ago. There are a series of historical atrocities that led to his death.

It's not just slavery - the issue is that the US has allowed white supremacy to go unchecked for centuries. Slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. Those are all manifestations with "residual harm".

Certainly, black people DO face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

If the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery, he'd be in West Africa. Then what?

I'm not arguing with you about the history is. I am arguing about the meaning of it for today and what to do about it.

All of that led to where we are today. It all led to his death. That is the meaning.

I agree. But it doesn't mean he is entitled to amy payment for whatever happened to his grandfather.

It's not just about slavery. He is entitled for his grandfather, father, and himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last month every American making less than $75k got a $1,200 check from the federal government. Does this count as reparations?

It counts as an example of how free money leads to chaos, looting and destruction.

I know, right? People who cannot work and have no money for food would have just lain listlessly, faint with hunger, instead of protesting. That would been much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, the key words are "present problems." Blacks in America today have problems today. So do poor whites. And immigrants. So lets fix what is front of us. We can't fix what is behind us.

Ok, but black people face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

Poor black people have more trauma and barriers than poor white people.

I disagree. They face unique challenges because of today's oppression. Is George Floyd dead because his great grandfather was a slave, or because a cop put a knee on his neck? Is it harder for a black person to buy a house today because of slavery or because they can't get a loan?
History may explain why these things happen, but it doesn't cause them. What we do right now causes today's problems. And the solutions are all right now as well.

Well, George Floyd wouldn't even be in Minneapolis if the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery. If he, his father, and grandfather had more opportunities then maybe he wouldn't have been an out-of-work bouncer who was possibly writing a forged check. If the US hadn't allowed white supremacy to flourish for centuries then perhaps the MPD wouldn't have had such a toxic, racist culture and officers like Chauvin would have been kicked out long ago. There are a series of historical atrocities that led to his death.

It's not just slavery - the issue is that the US has allowed white supremacy to go unchecked for centuries. Slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. Those are all manifestations with "residual harm".

Certainly, black people DO face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

If the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery, he'd be in West Africa. Then what?

I'm not arguing with you about the history is. I am arguing about the meaning of it for today and what to do about it.

All of that led to where we are today. It all led to his death. That is the meaning.

I agree. But it doesn't mean he is entitled to amy payment for whatever happened to his grandfather.

It's not just about slavery. He is entitled for his grandfather, father, and himself.

Well at least we are getting to the actual point. No, he is only entitled for himself. If he is, then Jews are entitled to reparations for 2,000 of opprrssion. Native Americans are entitled to the entire country. And so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last month every American making less than $75k got a $1,200 check from the federal government. Does this count as reparations?

It counts as an example of how free money leads to chaos, looting and destruction.

I know, right? People who cannot work and have no money for food would have just lain listlessly, faint with hunger, instead of protesting. That would been much better.

The $1,200 covered the Uber rides to the protest.

[Anonymous]

I think the argument would be more persuasive if it relied less on concepts of fairness and inequity and focused more on the case for how it will make the U.S. a happier, more functional place to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last month every American making less than $75k got a $1,200 check from the federal government. Does this count as reparations?

It counts as an example of how free money leads to chaos, looting and destruction.

I know, right? People who cannot work and have no money for food would have just lain listlessly, faint with hunger, instead of protesting. That would been much better.

The $1,200 covered the Uber rides to the protest.

The $1200 paid for our groceries and utility bills.

And our lousy government cannot decide whether it's better for people to be broke and starving, working and sick, or ... whether they should handle the covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, the key words are "present problems." Blacks in America today have problems today. So do poor whites. And immigrants. So lets fix what is front of us. We can't fix what is behind us.

Ok, but black people face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

Poor black people have more trauma and barriers than poor white people.

I disagree. They face unique challenges because of today's oppression. Is George Floyd dead because his great grandfather was a slave, or because a cop put a knee on his neck? Is it harder for a black person to buy a house today because of slavery or because they can't get a loan?
History may explain why these things happen, but it doesn't cause them. What we do right now causes today's problems. And the solutions are all right now as well.

Well, George Floyd wouldn't even be in Minneapolis if the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery. If he, his father, and grandfather had more opportunities then maybe he wouldn't have been an out-of-work bouncer who was possibly writing a forged check. If the US hadn't allowed white supremacy to flourish for centuries then perhaps the MPD wouldn't have had such a toxic, racist culture and officers like Chauvin would have been kicked out long ago. There are a series of historical atrocities that led to his death.

It's not just slavery - the issue is that the US has allowed white supremacy to go unchecked for centuries. Slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, etc. Those are all manifestations with "residual harm".

Certainly, black people DO face unique challenges in the US today because of the last 400 years of oppression.

If the US hadn't participated in chattel slavery, he'd be in West Africa. Then what?

I'm not arguing with you about the history is. I am arguing about the meaning of it for today and what to do about it.

All of that led to where we are today. It all led to his death. That is the meaning.

I agree. But it doesn't mean he is entitled to amy payment for whatever happened to his grandfather.

It's not just about slavery. He is entitled for his grandfather, father, and himself.

Well at least we are getting to the actual point. No, he is only entitled for himself. If he is,* then Jews are entitled to reparations for 2,000 of opprrssion. Native Americans are entitled to the entire country. And so on.

That sjould say, "if he is entitled to payments for his ancestors, then"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the argument would be more persuasive if it relied less on concepts of fairness and inequity and focused more on the case for how it will make the U.S. a happier, more functional place to live.

That’s a great point.

I think it’d ideally be part of a broader program of social reform with the end goals of:
- housing & education integration
- equality in health, economics, education, etc.