Thoreau AAP

[Anonymous]

The reason FCPS doesn't publish AAP numbers at TMS is that TMS does not have an AAP program that is recognized by FCPS (TMS isn't mentioned on the FCPS AAP website). TMS does have a fair number of AAP-eligible students that enroll in honors classes, but for TMS-zoned students that want to continue with an AAP-level experience in middle school (where core classes are taught at the AAP level and labeled as AAP, as opposed to honors), LJMS remains an outstanding option that prepares students well for the rigors of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't we be able to tell from the total enrollment numbers at Jackson and Thoreau if there has been a big move to Thoreau?

There will be a big move to TMS in overall student numbers b/c of the rezoning. The enrollment at TMS is around 1250 this year. What we don't know is how the AAP numbers have changed (or stayed the same) since FCPS does not publish AAP membership for schools that are not centers. Yes, we will be able to see LJMS's AAP membership numbers for the combined total in 7th grade and 8th grade. So, we can see if it is a departure from what they typically have. But, without knowing what TMS's AAP numbers are, you don't know if any change at LJMS is just a normal fluctuation or if it is actually a shift toward TMS.

I suspect there will be just a small shift to TMS (like maybe 10 more than normal). But, until someone gets the data, we are all just guessing. Even if LJMS loses 50 kids (which I'm pretty sure didn't happen this year), and TMS gained 50 AAP kids, LJMS would still have a perfectly fine AAP program (there are other middle school centers with smaller populations); and TMS and LJMS would be more even in terms of AAP membership.

But they aren't even in terms of demographics. The whole reason an AAP center was put at LJMS was to bring up the demographics.

So this is essentially "busing" for smart kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason FCPS doesn't publish AAP numbers at TMS is that TMS does not have an AAP program that is recognized by FCPS (TMS isn't mentioned on the FCPS AAP website). TMS does have a fair number of AAP-eligible students that enroll in honors classes, but for TMS-zoned students that want to continue with an AAP-level experience in middle school (where core classes are taught at the AAP level and labeled as AAP, as opposed to honors), LJMS remains an outstanding option that prepares students well for the rigors of high school.

See, the thing is -- no one from TMS is ever saying that LJMS doesn't provide a good educational experience for the AAP set. No one. Ever. It's only the LJMS-nervous parents like you who insist on denigrating TMS in order to keep the AAP kids coming to LJMS to prop up the test scores that otherwise (outside of AAP) doesn't look so good.

And you can keep saying "there is no AAP outside of the centers" -- but that doesn't make it so. The fact that FCPS doesn't separate those numbers out for the non-center programs doesn't mean they don't exist. What say you about Franklin and Irving???

Why don't you give it a rest -- you already tried this line of attack a few pages back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't we be able to tell from the total enrollment numbers at Jackson and Thoreau if there has been a big move to Thoreau?

There will be a big move to TMS in overall student numbers b/c of the rezoning. The enrollment at TMS is around 1250 this year. What we don't know is how the AAP numbers have changed (or stayed the same) since FCPS does not publish AAP membership for schools that are not centers. Yes, we will be able to see LJMS's AAP membership numbers for the combined total in 7th grade and 8th grade. So, we can see if it is a departure from what they typically have. But, without knowing what TMS's AAP numbers are, you don't know if any change at LJMS is just a normal fluctuation or if it is actually a shift toward TMS.

I suspect there will be just a small shift to TMS (like maybe 10 more than normal). But, until someone gets the data, we are all just guessing. Even if LJMS loses 50 kids (which I'm pretty sure didn't happen this year), and TMS gained 50 AAP kids, LJMS would still have a perfectly fine AAP program (there are other middle school centers with smaller populations); and TMS and LJMS would be more even in terms of AAP membership.

But they aren't even in terms of demographics. The whole reason an AAP center was put at LJMS was to bring up the demographics.

So this is essentially "busing" for smart kids?

I recall that a main driver was that Kilmer was overcrowded. They sent Kilmer's Vienna AAP students to LJ's new AAP program.

[Anonymous]

LJ had an AAP program before the Kilmer AAP boundary change. Some of Vienna's AAP kids are still at Kilmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason FCPS doesn't publish AAP numbers at TMS is that TMS does not have an AAP program that is recognized by FCPS (TMS isn't mentioned on the FCPS AAP website). TMS does have a fair number of AAP-eligible students that enroll in honors classes, but for TMS-zoned students that want to continue with an AAP-level experience in middle school (where core classes are taught at the AAP level and labeled as AAP, as opposed to honors), LJMS remains an outstanding option that prepares students well for the rigors of high school.

See, the thing is -- no one from TMS is ever saying that LJMS doesn't provide a good educational experience for the AAP set. No one. Ever. It's only the LJMS-nervous parents like you who insist on denigrating TMS in order to keep the AAP kids coming to LJMS to prop up the test scores that otherwise (outside of AAP) doesn't look so good.

And you can keep saying "there is no AAP outside of the centers" -- but that doesn't make it so. The fact that FCPS doesn't separate those numbers out for the non-center programs doesn't mean they don't exist. What say you about Franklin and Irving???

Why don't you give it a rest -- you already tried this line of attack a few pages back.

Thoreau does have separate classes for AAP kids, so really they and other schools should be listing their AAP students differently than general ed just like the centers do. They do this for LLIV students in elementary, so why not in middle?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LJ had an AAP program before the Kilmer AAP boundary change. Some of Vienna's AAP kids are still at Kilmer.

I think just the Louise Archer AAP kids were shifted from Kilmer to LJ.

[Anonymous]

Some Louise Archer AAP students are still in-boundary for the Kilmer AAP Center. To the previous poster: the reason that TMS AAP students aren't listed separately is that TMS does not have a formal AAP program (check the FCPS AAP website -- it's nowhere to be found). Local Level IV programs are recognized by FCPS only in elementary schools, not middle schools (again, per the same website). Middle school AAP options exist at middle school AAP Centers like Jackson and Kilmer. I'm only reporting facts; this is not a criticism of TMS or any other school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some Louise Archer AAP students are still in-boundary for the Kilmer AAP Center. To the previous poster: the reason that TMS AAP students aren't listed separately is that TMS does not have a formal AAP program (check the FCPS AAP website -- it's nowhere to be found). Local Level IV programs are recognized by FCPS only in elementary schools, not middle schools (again, per the same website). Middle school AAP options exist at middle school AAP Centers like Jackson and Kilmer. I'm only reporting facts; this is not a criticism of TMS or any other school.

Actually, you are making a conclusion based on what you see on line and assuming that what isn't listed on certain websites doesn't exist, when there is also information on other websites (and publicized by the schools themselves) that something does exist. You are making a logical mistake. And you are making a factual mistake. But, go ahead.

[Anonymous]

As a Vienna parent, I'm actually well aware that Thoreau publicizes that it runs a local AAP program and that many parents base their decision about where to send their AAP students in part upon this representation. I'm simply pointing out that FCPS does not support this "in house" program as one of its AAP options for middle school students. As a result, AAP-eligible students attending TMS take honors courses, not an AAP-level curriculum, as is available in the AAP Center schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason FCPS doesn't publish AAP numbers at TMS is that TMS does not have an AAP program that is recognized by FCPS (TMS isn't mentioned on the FCPS AAP website). TMS does have a fair number of AAP-eligible students that enroll in honors classes, but for TMS-zoned students that want to continue with an AAP-level experience in middle school (where core classes are taught at the AAP level and labeled as AAP, as opposed to honors), LJMS remains an outstanding option that prepares students well for the rigors of high school.

See, the thing is -- no one from TMS is ever saying that LJMS doesn't provide a good educational experience for the AAP set. No one. Ever. It's only the LJMS-nervous parents like you who insist on denigrating TMS in order to keep the AAP kids coming to LJMS to prop up the test scores that otherwise (outside of AAP) doesn't look so good.

And you can keep saying "there is no AAP outside of the centers" -- but that doesn't make it so. The fact that FCPS doesn't separate those numbers out for the non-center programs doesn't mean they don't exist. What say you about Franklin and Irving???

Why don't you give it a rest -- you already tried this line of attack a few pages back.

Thoreau does have separate classes for AAP kids, so really they and other schools should be listing their AAP students differently than general ed just like the centers do. They do this for LLIV students in elementary, so why not in middle?

But they can’t, because that would increase the litigation risk. It’s an obvious equal protection violation to give some students two, similar AAP options while denying similar choices to Gen Ed students. It mitigates the risk somewhat to hide the fact that Thoreau now offers the same AAP courses as Jackson, with classes restricted to AAP-eligible students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Vienna parent, I'm actually well aware that Thoreau publicizes that it runs a local AAP program and that many parents base their decision about where to send their AAP students in part upon this representation. I'm simply pointing out that FCPS does not support this "in house" program as one of its AAP options for middle school students. As a result, AAP-eligible students attending TMS take honors courses, not an AAP-level curriculum, as is available in the AAP Center schools.

Sounds like form over substance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason FCPS doesn't publish AAP numbers at TMS is that TMS does not have an AAP program that is recognized by FCPS (TMS isn't mentioned on the FCPS AAP website). TMS does have a fair number of AAP-eligible students that enroll in honors classes, but for TMS-zoned students that want to continue with an AAP-level experience in middle school (where core classes are taught at the AAP level and labeled as AAP, as opposed to honors), LJMS remains an outstanding option that prepares students well for the rigors of high school.

See, the thing is -- no one from TMS is ever saying that LJMS doesn't provide a good educational experience for the AAP set. No one. Ever. It's only the LJMS-nervous parents like you who insist on denigrating TMS in order to keep the AAP kids coming to LJMS to prop up the test scores that otherwise (outside of AAP) doesn't look so good.

And you can keep saying "there is no AAP outside of the centers" -- but that doesn't make it so. The fact that FCPS doesn't separate those numbers out for the non-center programs doesn't mean they don't exist. What say you about Franklin and Irving???

Why don't you give it a rest -- you already tried this line of attack a few pages back.

Thoreau does have separate classes for AAP kids, so really they and other schools should be listing their AAP students differently than general ed just like the centers do. They do this for LLIV students in elementary, so why not in middle?

But they can’t, because that would increase the litigation risk. It’s an obvious equal protection violation to give some students two, similar AAP options while denying similar choices to Gen Ed students. It mitigates the risk somewhat to hide the fact that Thoreau now offers the same AAP courses as Jackson, with classes restricted to AAP-eligible students.

not you again!

Good lord. There is no "litigation risk." You are an "intelligence risk." According to you, FCPS is mitigating the risk of being sued by hiding its middle school AAP options at non-center schools, but it is putting itself fully "at risk" for "equal protection violations" at the elementary school level by allowing kids who come from LL4 schools to choose AAP centers instead. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Not really. In terms of rigor, workload, success in academic competitors like MathCounts and Science Olympiad, and preparation for success in high school (including TJ), LJMS AAP has the edge over TMS. Certainly there are good reasons to choose TMS, but in terms of our academics, there's plenty of "substance" behind the decision to go with the center option at LJMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Vienna parent, I'm actually well aware that Thoreau publicizes that it runs a local AAP program and that many parents base their decision about where to send their AAP students in part upon this representation. I'm simply pointing out that FCPS does not support this "in house" program as one of its AAP options for middle school students. As a result, AAP-eligible students attending TMS take honors courses, not an AAP-level curriculum, as is available in the AAP Center schools.

You're flat out wrong and I'm a Luther Jackson supporter. The only reason they aren't centers is because the school does not allow kids to come in who aren't in boundary to the school. FCPS should just list them the same way they do LLIV elementary schools. Similar to LLIV vs. center, often the center is a different program, but still they are supposed to be teaching the level 4 curriculum.