How important is TJ for college?

[Anonymous]

The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

Untrue. The opposite is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts?

I did not go to TJ.

I went to a four year college, although not an Ivy League or equivalent.

I went to graduate school and earned a Masters and Doctorate before I was 30.

I have a good paying job.

So I would say that you if you are soemone who values your education, does well in school, works hard in school you will probably see a good amount of academic success wherever you go. That same work ethic will most likely lead you to do well in your life no matter what college you attend.

There are plenty of kids who do not attend TJ and the Ivy League schools who live great lives. There are plenty of people who do not go to college at all and live great lives. Personally, I think college is a good idea but I understand that not everyone can afford to go to college or is interested in going to college.

TJ is a great school with a great reputation. It is a good school to go to. But all this stress on getting intot he right high school and college creates an unhealthy amount of stress for kids and their parents. Your child will probably be fine if they go to a high school that is not TJ.

I am all for challenging my kid and presenting him with options. I hope that he does well enough academically that TJ might be an option but I am not going to stress out if he ends up at a different high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

I disagree with the bolded statement. I am not sure what you mean by TJ being killed. Also, while I agree TJ does a bad job generally in admission, the opposite of what you said true; TJ does not go for the "best scores". TJ admissions/FCPS has been tinkering with the admissions criteria for many years in order to increase black/Hispanic students at TJ and TJ has a secret formula (akin to "holistic admission") once applicants move on to the 2nd round and, it is relatively easy to move into the 2nd round. They focus more on the subjective factors such as recommendation letters, essays to make the final admissions decisions.

There were applicants with almost perfect scores on the admissions test denied admissions and students admitted with relatively low scores. Some of the best math students in the area were denied admissions (based on AMC 10 scores and other math competitions results etc.) for years (~2009-2012 particularly)and had to enter as sophomores. The will never go to scores only admissions like Stuyvesant since FCPS has been on a mission to increase blac/Hispanic students at TJ for about 20 years and score only admissions will further reduce black and Hispanic students at TJ not increase their numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

I disagree with the bolded statement. I am not sure what you mean by TJ being killed. Also, while I agree TJ does a bad job generally in admission, the opposite of what you said true; TJ does not go for the "best scores". TJ admissions/FCPS has been tinkering with the admissions criteria for many years in order to increase black/Hispanic students at TJ and TJ has a secret formula (akin to "holistic admission") once applicants move on to the 2nd round and, it is relatively easy to move into the 2nd round. They focus more on the subjective factors such as recommendation letters, essays to make the final admissions decisions.

There were applicants with almost perfect scores on the admissions test denied admissions and students admitted with relatively low scores. Some of the best math students in the area were denied admissions (based on AMC 10 scores and other math competitions results etc.) for years (~2009-2012 particularly)and had to enter as sophomores. The will never go to scores only admissions like Stuyvesant since FCPS has been on a mission to increase blac/Hispanic students at TJ for about 20 years and score only admissions will further reduce black and Hispanic students at TJ not increase their numbers.

Not now, but 20 years ago, they went for the best scores. That did not have the desired effect. But it permanently impacted the student enrollment -- TJ is for the very smart high achievers and not for just the STEM focus kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

Untrue. The opposite is true.

The opposite of what is true? Paragraph one, two or three?

If you are saying paragraph 1 is untrue, were you here in the early 80's? I was. I was a HS student who spoke for the need for a place where the science and math kids could excel without being bullied for being smart. I was there when TJ was approved. I did not go there because I graduated before it opened. Oh, and today, I am a PhD physicist. I should also mention that today, I could not be admitted to TJ.

Paragraph 2: the focus should be on STEM originality. What has made this a broken system is some people spend literally years creating a resume for TJ starting with Science Olympiad in ES -- not because of interest, but because of the resume.

As for paragraph 3: the beyond the top 20%, you are looking at a lot of kids at UVA and VT.

At a good base school (Madison, for example), about 50 students are admitted per year to UVA and about 80 to VT.
I suspect any graduate of TJ could be in the to 10% of most base schools, but there are kids from TJ rejected by UVA and VT. Of course, the average student going to TJ is going to a better college than the average student at any base school, but TJ only admits the top 5% or so of the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

Untrue. The opposite is true.

The opposite of what is true? Paragraph one, two or three?

If you are saying paragraph 1 is untrue, were you here in the early 80's? I was. I was a HS student who spoke for the need for a place where the science and math kids could excel without being bullied for being smart. I was there when TJ was approved. I did not go there because I graduated before it opened. Oh, and today, I am a PhD physicist. I should also mention that today, I could not be admitted to TJ.

Paragraph 2: the focus should be on STEM originality. What has made this a broken system is some people spend literally years creating a resume for TJ starting with Science Olympiad in ES -- not because of interest, but because of the resume.

As for paragraph 3: the beyond the top 20%, you are looking at a lot of kids at UVA and VT.

At a good base school (Madison, for example), about 50 students are admitted per year to UVA and about 80 to VT.
I suspect any graduate of TJ could be in the to 10% of most base schools, but there are kids from TJ rejected by UVA and VT. Of course, the average student going to TJ is going to a better college than the average student at any base school, but TJ only admits the top 5% or so of the county.

Odd you did not respond to the more detailed posting of 15:22.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

I disagree with the bolded statement. I am not sure what you mean by TJ being killed. Also, while I agree TJ does a bad job generally in admission, the opposite of what you said true; TJ does not go for the "best scores". TJ admissions/FCPS has been tinkering with the admissions criteria for many years in order to increase black/Hispanic students at TJ and TJ has a secret formula (akin to "holistic admission") once applicants move on to the 2nd round and, it is relatively easy to move into the 2nd round. They focus more on the subjective factors such as recommendation letters, essays to make the final admissions decisions.

There were applicants with almost perfect scores on the admissions test denied admissions and students admitted with relatively low scores. Some of the best math students in the area were denied admissions (based on AMC 10 scores and other math competitions results etc.) for years (~2009-2012 particularly)and had to enter as sophomores. The will never go to scores only admissions like Stuyvesant since FCPS has been on a mission to increase blac/Hispanic students at TJ for about 20 years and score only admissions will further reduce black and Hispanic students at TJ not increase their numbers.

Not now, but 20 years ago, they went for the best scores. That did not have the desired effect. But it permanently impacted the student enrollment -- TJ is for the very smart high achievers and not for just the STEM focus kids.

How is the admissions standard 20 years ago relevant now? You made it sound like you were talking about the TJ admission now. Regardless, I don't think TJ ever only used test scores for admissions so there is that as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

I disagree with the bolded statement. I am not sure what you mean by TJ being killed. Also, while I agree TJ does a bad job generally in admission, the opposite of what you said true; TJ does not go for the "best scores". TJ admissions/FCPS has been tinkering with the admissions criteria for many years in order to increase black/Hispanic students at TJ and TJ has a secret formula (akin to "holistic admission") once applicants move on to the 2nd round and, it is relatively easy to move into the 2nd round. They focus more on the subjective factors such as recommendation letters, essays to make the final admissions decisions.

There were applicants with almost perfect scores on the admissions test denied admissions and students admitted with relatively low scores. Some of the best math students in the area were denied admissions (based on AMC 10 scores and other math competitions results etc.) for years (~2009-2012 particularly)and had to enter as sophomores. The will never go to scores only admissions like Stuyvesant since FCPS has been on a mission to increase blac/Hispanic students at TJ for about 20 years and score only admissions will further reduce black and Hispanic students at TJ not increase their numbers.

Not now, but 20 years ago, they went for the best scores. That did not have the desired effect. But it permanently impacted the student enrollment -- TJ is for the very smart high achievers and not for just the STEM focus kids.

How is the admissions standard 20 years ago relevant now? You made it sound like you were talking about the TJ admission now. Regardless, I don't think TJ ever only used test scores for admissions so there is that as well.

The admissions changes fundimentally altered the school from the original focus of a stem magnet to the most selective Hs in the country, creating a demand where Some parents try to get there kids to their over anything else, thinking if the kids don’t get into th, they are failures. This pressure is the result of first generation immigrants applying the experiences in there home country to tj.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem I have with TJ is that it was created to be a STEM focused HS, not just a really competitive HS with extremely challenging curriculum. Instead, it was supposed to be a place where the science and/or math focused kids could learn the math in more detail with more in-depth resources.

What killed TJ was they did a bad job on admissions: they went for the best scores rather than the kids that would most benefit from the school.

As a result, TJ has no impact on colleges unless you re in the top 10-20%. Because being in the top 10-20% from TJ is special. It is much harder to stand out at TJ than any other school, and that will be noted. For those kids, they are much more likely to get into elite schools that the top 3% at a regular school

I disagree with the bolded statement. I am not sure what you mean by TJ being killed. Also, while I agree TJ does a bad job generally in admission, the opposite of what you said true; TJ does not go for the "best scores". TJ admissions/FCPS has been tinkering with the admissions criteria for many years in order to increase black/Hispanic students at TJ and TJ has a secret formula (akin to "holistic admission") once applicants move on to the 2nd round and, it is relatively easy to move into the 2nd round. They focus more on the subjective factors such as recommendation letters, essays to make the final admissions decisions.

There were applicants with almost perfect scores on the admissions test denied admissions and students admitted with relatively low scores. Some of the best math students in the area were denied admissions (based on AMC 10 scores and other math competitions results etc.) for years (~2009-2012 particularly)and had to enter as sophomores. The will never go to scores only admissions like Stuyvesant since FCPS has been on a mission to increase blac/Hispanic students at TJ for about 20 years and score only admissions will further reduce black and Hispanic students at TJ not increase their numbers.

Not now, but 20 years ago, they went for the best scores. That did not have the desired effect. But it permanently impacted the student enrollment -- TJ is for the very smart high achievers and not for just the STEM focus kids.

How is the admissions standard 20 years ago relevant now? You made it sound like you were talking about the TJ admission now. Regardless, I don't think TJ ever only used test scores for admissions so there is that as well.

The admissions changes fundimentally altered the school from the original focus of a stem magnet to the most selective Hs in the country, creating a demand where Some parents try to get there kids to their over anything else, thinking if the kids don’t get into th, they are failures. This pressure is the result of first generation immigrants applying the experiences in there home country to tj.

Maybe there is some truth to that but more significantly, most immigrants tend to be middle class not able to pay for private schools for their children and wanting to have their children receive the best possible education when they cannot pay for private schools or move to the right school zones for the right public high schools etc.

In addition, TJ is still STEM focused in the curriculum, research etc. It just happens to be a very good HS.

[Anonymous]

^^. +1. My TJ kid is unusually strong in humanities. Still taking the following classes junior year: 2 block Humanities with APUSH, AP Calc, Physics, Music, and 4 semesters of lab pre-recs (conv & alt energy systems and advanced analog and advanced digital electronics) because TJ requires kids to have the pre-recs for 2 senior labs.

Next year with take AP Gov w/ AP Lit, post AP Calc Math, geosystems (Required at TJ), senior lab (energy systems or microelectronics, also required at Tja), music, and a semester of audio electronics and a semester of comp physics or crypto.

It’s a STEM focused HS— on steroids. There just isn’t room in the scheduled for many (if any) non-STEM electives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends. If you aim at UVA, TJ is a way to go. If your child is an average or below average at TJ (your class rank could be a lot better at a regular home base high school, then you may not get into your first choice.

We have 4 kids in our street who went to UVA. They did not go to tj.

We have kids in our community who went to TJ and then, went to Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, CMU CS, Cal tech, Dartmouth, Duke, Cornell, UC Berkley, Vanderbilt, and MIT. Some of them who graduated from these schools are working in startups in bay area as well as on wall street (Quants).

We also have kids who went to TJ and then UVA, VA Tech and WM. They are also doing well (med schools and Wall street).

Exactly, we’ll said! Think long term, people! You send your kids to TJ so they develop their STEM research skills and independent research skills. They are useful for long term! Not every kid at UVA will be successful so attending UVA is a poor measure for performance and life success.

And do people know that the humanities at TJ are incredible also?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts?

I know our base schools send kids to Harvard, Cornell.... but they are all captains of an atheletic sport, no fail every time. And they take all SP classes and get all As. At TJ, it is not possible to take all AP classes (won’t get into it here) and all As is pretty darn hard. I wonder how many kids graduate from TJ with all As. I know one (according to his mother) but he is at UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts?

I know our base schools send kids to Harvard, Cornell.... but they are all captains of an atheletic sport, no fail every time. And they take all SP classes and get all As. At TJ, it is not possible to take all AP classes (won’t get into it here) and all As is pretty darn hard. I wonder how many kids graduate from TJ with all As. I know one (according to his mother) but he is at UVA.

My kid graduated TJ few years ago and he graduated with all As (4.0 unweighted gpa) with plenty of AP and post-AP courses. My recollection (coming from him around the time of graduation) is approximately 5-6 kids for that year. It is extremely difficult to receive all As at TJ (especially tough for AP Physics, AP Spanish and post-AP math courses).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thoughts?

I know our base schools send kids to Harvard, Cornell.... but they are all captains of an atheletic sport, no fail every time. And they take all SP classes and get all As. At TJ, it is not possible to take all AP classes (won’t get into it here) and all As is pretty darn hard. I wonder how many kids graduate from TJ with all As. I know one (according to his mother) but he is at UVA.

My kid graduated TJ few years ago and he graduated with all As (4.0 unweighted gpa) with plenty of AP and post-AP courses. My recollection (coming from him around the time of graduation) is approximately 5-6 kids for that year. It is extremely difficult to receive all As at TJ (especially tough for AP Physics, AP Spanish and post-AP math courses).

Great to hear that he had all A's. Where is he going to now?