I know why Millenials can't afford houses and pay off their student loans..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're right but you're actually off by a factor of 2 or 3.

The knives at DC Sharp -start- at $200 and go up to $1000+

the coffee is closer to $7. I got a candle that was $48 and the locally sourced meats and milk are more like 4x the price of Safeway (which is shit, by the way. You know this, don't you? )

— Gen Xer who can afford everything I just listed

When one is living in mom's basement, this luxuries become quite affordable!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

Let's bring this lovely thread back to the original post so we can all identify what to invest in and what not to invest in. Everyday luxury companies will be good investments. Mediocre chain grocery stores will likely go bust in the next few years. Housing is a bad bet.

Have you been in a Safeway or Giant lately? I think they already have.

No joke. I looked forward to a promised, modern Giant in upper NW DC (Cathedral Commons). Guess what? Now that it's built, it may be more modern, but Giant still sells the same poor quality crap, but just offers more of it. And as a result, the store doesn't seem to be doing so well. Not to mention that the store seems to have been dropped in by helicopter from outer Leesburg, but DC shoppers don't tend to be ones to fill the SUV up with 20-bag orders. Giant's (somewhat rotting) lunch, so to speak, may be eaten by Whole Foods and Trader Joe's at the higher end and Walmart and Aldi at the lower end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

I don't know about candles or knives, but money spent on locally sourced food is worth it. Crappy food is killing you guys! You are what you eat, literally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

Millennial with HHI of over $500k/yr and a vacation house who frequents Union Market with my biglaw friends. Lots of rich millennials in DC.

+1. It's like the 40+ crowd here CANNOT accept that there are millennials with high HHIs and thus we spend differently that people who are just starting out making 40k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

Millennial with HHI of over $500k/yr and a vacation house who frequents Union Market with my biglaw friends. Lots of rich millennials in DC.

+1. It's like the 40+ crowd here CANNOT accept that there are millennials with high HHIs and thus we spend differently that people who are just starting out making 40k.

Of course there are millennials with high HHI: Max Scherzer, Bryce Harper, and Stras are all millennials.

But most millennials are not making those incomes. Heck, less than 1% of the population makes that type of income.

And, statistically, it is much more likely that you are a troll than making that type of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

Millennial with HHI of over $500k/yr and a vacation house who frequents Union Market with my biglaw friends. Lots of rich millennials in DC.

+1. It's like the 40+ crowd here CANNOT accept that there are millennials with high HHIs and thus we spend differently that people who are just starting out making 40k.

Eh. DH and I were born in 81 so we're 35. Technically millennials. HHI over 500k. Since we were born on the cusp, we relate more to Gen X's. True millennials are 30 or younger IMO.

[Anonymous]

So a the OP, observers a few people spending money and then makes sweeping generalizations about millions of people. Cool story bro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

I don't know about candles or knives, but money spent on locally sourced food is worth it. Crappy food is killing you guys! You are what you eat, literally.

Do tell, how does a given piece of food being "local" reduce its ability to kill me?

[Anonymous]

8 years ago, the tuition at Harvard Law School was about $43, 000 per academic yer.

Next year, it will be about about $60, 000 per academic year.

So if you went to Harvard Law School 8 years ago, you could easily have $50,000(let's not even include interests) less in student loans than someone who is going today. Now if we go back even further, it could get very depressing.

Other institutions of higher learning are raking up the prices too.

The Rising Cost of Education is the reason why Millennials can't afford shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am with OP, I drink coffee made at home, my teen DD wants Starbucks all the time. There is no way she will change once on her own. I hope she will, but hope is slim. It is our fault, for sure, to some extent. I refuse to buy her Starbucks more often than I buy it, but you can see almost all of her school at SB every morning getting coffee, so clearly other parents suports this as well. My BIL is paying a two weeks winter break trip for his college DS to Florida to get scuba certification. No way would my parents or my DH's parents ever pay for anything like that at all. DH worked to pay for his bike at 7 years old with a a weekend paper route. Truth is that new generations are more and more spoiled, and if we are to measure degrees of spoiled, I would say it is increasing more rapidly than in the past. We became pushover parents, who provided at our own expense for our kids, and kids are clueless how to fend for themselves. We are part of the problem.

+1. I'm 50, grew up outside NYC. I had a job from about 12 onward - delivering papers, bagging groceries, etc. Worked every summer in college, and I did not grow up even remotely poor. Last year, I paid for my kids to get officiating certifications in their sports - unless I take the initiative, they don't even bother to sign up for assignments. I feel like I went wrong somewhere. My spouse and I work like dogs - travel, long hours, etc. I see younger people at my job come and go rather quickly, looking for some perfect job that is just not out there. We had one guy that had to work a few weekends and quit within 6 mos. Every generation is different early on, but eventually they all revert to the mean. They eventually want homes, good schools, educations for their kids, safe streets. Floating from job to job, collecting side hustles, not saving any money - none of this will look good from 40.

"Floating from job to job" --> studies show you make a ton more money that way because raises at current jobs don't often come. Sounds smart to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am with OP, I drink coffee made at home, my teen DD wants Starbucks all the time. There is no way she will change once on her own. I hope she will, but hope is slim. It is our fault, for sure, to some extent. I refuse to buy her Starbucks more often than I buy it, but you can see almost all of her school at SB every morning getting coffee, so clearly other parents suports this as well. My BIL is paying a two weeks winter break trip for his college DS to Florida to get scuba certification. No way would my parents or my DH's parents ever pay for anything like that at all. DH worked to pay for his bike at 7 years old with a a weekend paper route. Truth is that new generations are more and more spoiled, and if we are to measure degrees of spoiled, I would say it is increasing more rapidly than in the past. We became pushover parents, who provided at our own expense for our kids, and kids are clueless how to fend for themselves. We are part of the problem.

+1. I'm 50, grew up outside NYC. I had a job from about 12 onward - delivering papers, bagging groceries, etc. Worked every summer in college, and I did not grow up even remotely poor. Last year, I paid for my kids to get officiating certifications in their sports - unless I take the initiative, they don't even bother to sign up for assignments. I feel like I went wrong somewhere. My spouse and I work like dogs - travel, long hours, etc. I see younger people at my job come and go rather quickly, looking for some perfect job that is just not out there. We had one guy that had to work a few weekends and quit within 6 mos. Every generation is different early on, but eventually they all revert to the mean. They eventually want homes, good schools, educations for their kids, safe streets. Floating from job to job, collecting side hustles, not saving any money - none of this will look good from 40.

"Floating from job to job" --> studies show you make a ton more money that way because raises at current jobs don't often come. Sounds smart to me

That works in the short term, but be prepared to need to reset things. What happens is, in bad times, they are often the first ones let go -- they are more expensive. And when things get tight, there could be industry down turns.

Or, let me give examples of experience: I have worked through two downturns:

the Dot bomb -> Post Y2K -> 9/11.

The great recession

In both cases, in the years leading up, job hopping was great for people. During the dot.com era (error?), you could always find a job that paid more -- 20% more. People were making fun of people that stayed put. They were saying they had no ambition. Personally, I was new in my career (PhD scientist, started working in my 30's post grad school). But, I could have bounced between jobs and moved up salary. I didn't.

Y2K and the .bomb happened, and my friends were out of work. And no one was hiring. The VC money that supported their growth was over. My work was plodding along. At the same time, Y2K remediation was over. Double whammy. And the so call web developers who worked on the front end of web pages? Well tools evolved so the work was done by graphic artists rather than programmers. (Programmers were still needed for the back end work). Then, 9/11 happened. For a few months, the economy just stopped. No one hired because no one knew what would happen. No one bought any thing big. No one travels. (I took a 1 week trip to an ocean front resort in Florida spending less than 1K).

So, some of those job hoppers, well, they were unemployed from 1999/2000 to 2002/2003. When they got jobs, they typically were paid less than they were earning before.

This was primarily in IT jobs (pre 9/11).


Now, in 2007-2009, the job loss was much deeper. I know many people who still have not recovered.
But, the first ones gone were the most expensive job hoppers.

My perspective is I have worked for the same company since 1995. I have seen my salary grow from 50K to nearly 200K. There are times when I was recruited to hop, but I noticed it was typically for 10% more; but less vacation (I get 5 weeks because of length of employment). And there will be no good will. For example, a while ago, I was having issues: I was under performing/tired all the time. If I was a new employee, I would have been (rightly) fired. Instead, the change was noted; I agreed. Eventually (after 4 months), we found the cause: a large tumor. The company supported me through the illness. -- I am still not able to do everything I could be fore then.

So, when you job hop you loose the currency of good will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am with OP, I drink coffee made at home, my teen DD wants Starbucks all the time. There is no way she will change once on her own. I hope she will, but hope is slim. It is our fault, for sure, to some extent. I refuse to buy her Starbucks more often than I buy it, but you can see almost all of her school at SB every morning getting coffee, so clearly other parents suports this as well. My BIL is paying a two weeks winter break trip for his college DS to Florida to get scuba certification. No way would my parents or my DH's parents ever pay for anything like that at all. DH worked to pay for his bike at 7 years old with a a weekend paper route. Truth is that new generations are more and more spoiled, and if we are to measure degrees of spoiled, I would say it is increasing more rapidly than in the past. We became pushover parents, who provided at our own expense for our kids, and kids are clueless how to fend for themselves. We are part of the problem.

+1. I'm 50, grew up outside NYC. I had a job from about 12 onward - delivering papers, bagging groceries, etc. Worked every summer in college, and I did not grow up even remotely poor. Last year, I paid for my kids to get officiating certifications in their sports - unless I take the initiative, they don't even bother to sign up for assignments. I feel like I went wrong somewhere. My spouse and I work like dogs - travel, long hours, etc. I see younger people at my job come and go rather quickly, looking for some perfect job that is just not out there. We had one guy that had to work a few weekends and quit within 6 mos. Every generation is different early on, but eventually they all revert to the mean. They eventually want homes, good schools, educations for their kids, safe streets. Floating from job to job, collecting side hustles, not saving any money - none of this will look good from 40.

"Floating from job to job" --> studies show you make a ton more money that way because raises at current jobs don't often come. Sounds smart to me

That works in the short term, but be prepared to need to reset things. What happens is, in bad times, they are often the first ones let go -- they are more expensive. And when things get tight, there could be industry down turns.

Or, let me give examples of experience: I have worked through two downturns:

the Dot bomb -> Post Y2K -> 9/11.

The great recession

In both cases, in the years leading up, job hopping was great for people. During the dot.com era (error?), you could always find a job that paid more -- 20% more. People were making fun of people that stayed put. They were saying they had no ambition. Personally, I was new in my career (PhD scientist, started working in my 30's post grad school). But, I could have bounced between jobs and moved up salary. I didn't.

Y2K and the .bomb happened, and my friends were out of work. And no one was hiring. The VC money that supported their growth was over. My work was plodding along. At the same time, Y2K remediation was over. Double whammy. And the so call web developers who worked on the front end of web pages? Well tools evolved so the work was done by graphic artists rather than programmers. (Programmers were still needed for the back end work). Then, 9/11 happened. For a few months, the economy just stopped. No one hired because no one knew what would happen. No one bought any thing big. No one travels. (I took a 1 week trip to an ocean front resort in Florida spending less than 1K).

So, some of those job hoppers, well, they were unemployed from 1999/2000 to 2002/2003. When they got jobs, they typically were paid less than they were earning before.

This was primarily in IT jobs (pre 9/11).


Now, in 2007-2009, the job loss was much deeper. I know many people who still have not recovered.
But, the first ones gone were the most expensive job hoppers.

My perspective is I have worked for the same company since 1995. I have seen my salary grow from 50K to nearly 200K. There are times when I was recruited to hop, but I noticed it was typically for 10% more; but less vacation (I get 5 weeks because of length of employment). And there will be no good will. For example, a while ago, I was having issues: I was under performing/tired all the time. If I was a new employee, I would have been (rightly) fired. Instead, the change was noted; I agreed. Eventually (after 4 months), we found the cause: a large tumor. The company supported me through the illness. -- I am still not able to do everything I could be fore then.

So, when you job hop you loose the currency of good will.

Not really. I'm 40 and have job hopped in IT. Worked for UUNET back in 1999, right out of college. I'm at 280k now. DH has a similar story. We have never once been unemployed. Job hopping in IT pays off enormous, DH is a testament to that, as his company went IPO and he has RSUs and will hop after they fully vest in April. In about 5 years we could live modestly without working, but will probably work another 15 years so we can live big and leave a nice safety net for our kids.

Staying at a job since 3 1995 is a total stale, relic from the past dinosaur move. And just an FYI, most IT companies have unlimited vacation time.

Clearly you are not a risk taker. I'm with TS Elliot. "Only those who risk going too far, can really find out how far they can go."

[Anonymous]

Yeah I tend to be risk averse and even I am giving the side-eye to working at the same place since 1995. That said, I'm glad you had that support and goodwill when you needed PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Took a field trip to Union Market this weekend. Filled with young people looking very spiffy, drinking $5 coffees and buying things like $30 candles and locally sourced food that is 2x the price of Safeway. There was a stall there selling $200+ Japanese knives. All this 'everyday luxury' is killing you guys.

You have To think of the larger economy. It isn't one generation's fault. Houses and colleges and gas and airplane travel are more expensive then 25 years. Plus everyone is now paying monthly for things that didn't even exist 25 years ago: internet and cell/smart phones.

[Anonymous]

^^ more expensive then 25 years ago