I know why Millenials can't afford houses and pay off their student loans..

[Anonymous]

Maybe if we didn't compare our kids' college costs to ours all the time, we wouldn't feel so hopeless. Times have changed big time.
Our kids need to go to community college first, work at the same time and live at home. The real "college experience" is for the ones who can afford it.
I know many Eastern Europeans who work and go to school at the same time. They pay much higher tuition than Americans. They are not eligible for student loans, don't have credit cards nor can they take breaks every time they run out of money. Few have parents who can afford to help them a little. I don't actually know anybody.
But most started out in community college.
The few girls I can think of, make about $600-$800 a week. Seems to be enough to pay for school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you had voted for Sanders you wouldn't be having this discussion about paying for college.
Voting against your own interests...

+1

[Anonymous]

Just had to check in and see what you all are prattling on and on about for 25 pages and I discovered....yawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why all the whining? We're 30 year old millenials and are not having problems financially. Dual feds, we own a sfh, have a child and plan on two more, paid off cars, etc. Paid off our student loans (80k).

We do not have the salary that my parents had at this age (dad had the same job my dh has, but it was enough to support a sahm), but we're doing just fine. We struggle with daycare costs and feel like we're drowning sometimes, but we saved up before having our child.

I have noticed that there is less inter generational wealth transfer than in generations past. Greatest generation hoarded it all and then Boomers spend it all. All of our grandparents are still alive with large estates (10-15 million) in their 90s. I love them and would hate for them to die, but as people live longer, less wealth passes on. My great grandparents all died in their 60s. My parents each receive 14k from each of their parents every year, that's 56k. And then they gloat about it and blow it on trips, appliances or cars. DH and I have never received any money and my parents say they will spend it all before they die. Seems to be the boomer mentality.

Yep. +1000

+1 Similar situation here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Goddamn. DC is a bubble. No wonder why democrats lost.

No, four kids isn't why. In many areas of the country four kids doesn't kill you. In the suburbs of Richmond, VA I have several relatives with four kids, gorgeous homes, and good public schools.

Yes it is. Sending four kids to college is expensive. Doing anything with four kids is expensive. Even the cheapest vacation becomes expensive with four kids.

Lets just look at this....

each kid as activities: music lessons in this area are at least $40/week; 2000/yr.
Food...they have to eat. Small kids eat less than big kids, but teen...wow....on average (over ages): 2400/year
Religious education: $400/yr

Clothing? Vacations? Etc...


Each kid costs about 5K per year. You make 50K (just over the median), and have 4 kids, you are poor. Ok. No music lessons. Food is required. Clothing? Hand-me-Downs. lets assume free.

Before housing or transportation (just food for the kids and social security taxes): $3000/month --- housing? probably at least 1000 (low cost of living area). 2K per month left over. Now, you need health care/insurance. Figure that will be $800/month on average. 1,200/month. And we haven't paid the bills. You need a car (or two), but you drive a clunker (or two), 200/month repairs, $150/month gas, $50/month insurance. That is get you down to $800/month. Utiltiies? $200 for gas/electric/water? $600/month. Oh wait. Mommy and daddy did not eat year. Another 400/month.

So, the median family in a low cost of living area is looking at $200/month left over before any discretionary spending. Cell Phone for the adults? $100/month. No cable. No Internet.

This is life in middle america.

We make enough money for now in DC, just not for college - and now the way they evaluate for house loans now post scandal not enough to move. We got our first house (basically) on the same salary here (only mine) in 2002. Even if it had not appreciated, we would not be eligible to buy it now even though together we make slightly more money. Times have changed.

But stop harping on our reproductive irresponsibility. We always intended to have 3 kids - that is what I grew up with - just not starting so early or so close together and then our accident so far apart he is basically an only child. He is the most work hands down. We have good kids, free child care, and the older kids love teaching him things. One sister taught him how to sign (he signed "more" at 7 months! probably due to her infinite patience), the other taught him how to read. Brother did Dino Tracks, Sum Swamp, and now they are on Equate (all math games). Kids are in public school and we are fine with it. We have deliberately created an intellectual environment.

You would be surprised about how inexpensive clothes etc can be if you know where to go. With little kids we went to church second hand sales and got good brands - still go to St. Patricks every year especially because two of our kids are now in adult size clothing (my girl can borrow my clothes but our oldest boy is now taller than my husband). Musical and religious education comes from church and church is free (we do pledge). It also comes from Rock Band/Guitar Hero and my husband. That includes voice, bass (sp?), and drums. Thinking about a garage band (or we do sometimes). Weekends are insane, although one kid can drive - but all the activities the kids go to are free.

We belong to one club - an island in the Potomac river, dues are $475 this year. Best place to go swim and canoe on Saturdays in the summer and you can even camp out. Makes the kids quite popular with the type of classmate we want them to make friends with. A far cry from the Chevy Chase Club! The Wilson pool is free, libraries are wonderful. And the museums around here are pretty cool when kids are young and then once a kid gets specifically interested in one thing. No one has ever said they were bored. But my husband is kind of a natural educator - any kind of interest a kid expresses, he will pursue it with them. And he can. We are extremely lucky in that way.

Largest "unnecessary" expenses are Scout and Venturing camps, but we want Eagle Scouts and Summit and Nova awards. If you have the internet and netflix and the NYT you do not need cable these days - you don't need TV at all. I actually was raised without it by design, which I really resented. But now you don't need to pay for movies or TV shows. Most music is also available on Utube. Vacations are not expensive when you camp as a family or take road trips and visit wealthier people who live in interesting places (yes plane fare sucks). My parents have a summer house and the other side has a place as well which we sold out of a long time ago but they still let us come.

We will look hard for merit scholarships - just really pissed off about the crazy hikes in college tuition. Even moving to California no longer really makes sense.

[Anonymous]

But, going back to the jobs issue, of course they can work in college - we both did, 35 hours a week for me at an Ivy and I did really well. Lots of time to waste in college. But all the jobs I worked over the summer at my parents summer place are now taken by adults.

So what about paid work in teenage years (we have done unpaid internships and scout stuff and they are incredibly valuable in terms of education).

If your teens work for money either during the year or over the summers what do they do? Where? I feel like this is the one experience they are missing.

We are not millenials, we are educated and hardworking (not to say that they are not), but I was female at Biglaw or whatever you all are calling it and got laid off during the recession and perhaps because I was female and already had kids I could not get rehired (I used to be an employment lawyer). Husband was always a fed - sounds ironic but we wanted to give back to our country. He obviously is not a lawyer and very employable but he is the one with the most job security right now and because I might get cut under a RIF - last to join, first to go, we cannot risk him changing jobs right now - we need the benefits.

In general we like our lives but are very crowded. I just hate state and private college tuition right now and don't want my kids in debt. Otherwise I am pretty sure all but one of them can make their own way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you had voted for Sanders you wouldn't be having this discussion about paying for college.
Voting against your own interests...

+1

-1.

Exhibit 1: Venezuela.

Economic realities matter more than cheap political promises by a demagogue with zero experience running anything.

[Anonymous]

Crash their economy and then condescendingly ask why they're still living with their parents.

Hike up the prices on everything, stagnate wages, then blame them for not buying houses.

Tell them those student loans will pay off in the long run and the. Destroy the job market.

Feign ignorance at your generation's role in income inequality and then act like they're the idiots.

Redistribute all the wealth to the top 1% while they're babies and then complain they're commies when they try to redistribute it back.

#howtoconfuseamillenial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe if we didn't compare our kids' college costs to ours all the time, we wouldn't feel so hopeless. Times have changed big time.
Our kids need to go to community college first, work at the same time and live at home. The real "college experience" is for the ones who can afford it.
I know many Eastern Europeans who work and go to school at the same time. They pay much higher tuition than Americans. They are not eligible for student loans, don't have credit cards nor can they take breaks every time they run out of money. Few have parents who can afford to help them a little. I don't actually know anybody.
But most started out in community college.
The few girls I can think of, make about $600-$800 a week. Seems to be enough to pay for school.

What do they do and where do they work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crash their economy and then condescendingly ask why they're still living with their parents.

Hike up the prices on everything, stagnate wages, then blame them for not buying houses.

Tell them those student loans will pay off in the long run and the. Destroy the job market.

Feign ignorance at your generation's role in income inequality and then act like they're the idiots.

Redistribute all the wealth to the top 1% while they're babies and then complain they're commies when they try to redistribute it back.

#howtoconfuseamillenial

To you think this is different than the past? I am a scientist/engineer. When I graduated college (1986), I was offered a job at 24,000. Adjusted for inflation, that is 52K, which is about where people with a BS in my field start today. The god senior people were making between 60-80, which is 140-180 today. Not that different.

I graduated without loans -- that is the only significant difference (my daughter will also have no loans).

Job Market? not really worse than when I graduated. Different, but not worse. It has always been dependent on the field you are in.

Income inequality is worse. No question. This happened mostly because we elected a populist president in 1980 -- he rewrote the tax codes to let the rich keep more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you had voted for Sanders you wouldn't be having this discussion about paying for college.
Voting against your own interests...

+1

Sanders wanted to pay for college with the taxpayers' money. No thanks, I saved up the $250,000 on my own to send my kids to college, not interested in paying any more for other people's kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why all the whining? We're 30 year old millenials and are not having problems financially. Dual feds, we own a sfh, have a child and plan on two more, paid off cars, etc. Paid off our student loans (80k).

We do not have the salary that my parents had at this age (dad had the same job my dh has, but it was enough to support a sahm), but we're doing just fine. We struggle with daycare costs and feel like we're drowning sometimes, but we saved up before having our child.

I have noticed that there is less inter generational wealth transfer than in generations past. Greatest generation hoarded it all and then Boomers spend it all. All of our grandparents are still alive with large estates (10-15 million) in their 90s. I love them and would hate for them to die, but as people live longer, less wealth passes on. My great grandparents all died in their 60s. My parents each receive 14k from each of their parents every year, that's 56k. And then they gloat about it and blow it on trips, appliances or cars. DH and I have never received any money and my parents say they will spend it all before they die. Seems to be the boomer mentality.

It's not fair that your parents treat you that way but stop blaming all of the baby boomers for the crappy things your parents do. You deserve better - but I don't deserve to be lumped in with your crappy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you had voted for Sanders you wouldn't be having this discussion about paying for college.
Voting against your own interests...

+1

Sanders wanted to pay for college with the taxpayers' money. No thanks, I saved up the $250,000 on my own to send my kids to college, not interested in paying any more for other people's kids.

Here's why you should care about whether other people's kids are mired in debt. The US is an aging society - fortunately not in the same boat as some European nations and Japan because we have been more open to immigrants who typically have more children - but we need young people educated and actively integrated into the economy to help support the aging folks who are retiring and in some cases sick and in need of a lot of help. It is not in my interest as someone getting close to retirement to have "other people's kids" mired in debt and dragging down the economy. It's in everyone's interest to support our youth who are facing a difficult economy.

[Anonymous]

At no other time since the 1920s has there been a bigger income gap between the top 1% and the rest - until now.

Saying you took care of your own and you don't want to help anyone else is evident of the loss of moral compass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Different folks have different debt tolerances. We paid off our home in 3 years. Mathematically, would it have been more profitable to have stretched it out to 30 and invested the difference? Probably. But we wanted the mortgage gone, and we've got no regrets.

But doesn't this impact your tax rate? Doesn't it help to have the mortgage interest tax deduction?

I wish I had $1 for every time I've pointed out that you pay $1 for 30 cents in mortgage tax deduction.

Stupid.

+1. So financially illiterate. An interest deduction is great when you have no choice but to incur the expense of paying interest, like when you take a mortgage to buy a house. Interest is still an expense you pay, real $ going out to the bank. The deduction helps soften the blow, but ideally you don't have the expense at all.

-1. Assuming a mortgage rate of 4.5 %. Even if you can make a conservative 6% in the market, you are out ahead by having a mortgage. Oh and the deductions. Who is stupid?