OK, I will start this thread - Sela

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad about the newer posts of this thread is that instead of focusing on the challenges of the school, the Sela boosters are taking the cowardly and easy way by calling skeptics anti-Semetic. Seems really shallow and pathetic and certainly will give interested families pause to go elsewhere. Our children's education is the most important thing there is. Period. Being skeptical is not only appropriate, but the responsibility of good parents. Also, just because many people, Jewish people included, have expressed that Hebrew is self-limiting in numerous threads on DCUM doesn't make them anti-Semetic. It does, however, make Sela boosters seem desperate and lazy when they so quickly pull the race card in opposition to the criticism. If nothing else, this interaction leaves much to be desired with respect to meeting real Sela parents. I hope you all aren't represented by the boosters up-thread.

You're having a lot of trouble keeping in mind that not everyone who supports language immersion schools is a Sela booster. I have two children and we're at a different DCI feeder school. I see a lot of value in adding more languages to the DCI mix, and the more the better. If you don't care for Hebrew, then simply don't have your children take it. However a knee-jerk reaction against the option for others smells fishy.

Approximately the same number of people speak Hebrew as Finnish, though somehow I doubt we'd hear so many complaints about how "self-limiting" or "useless" Finnish is. That raises eyebrows.

NP, I am a parent of a child in a DCI feeder, and I do not see the value at this time of adding more languages. I am skeptical how DCI will handle Mandarin and French at a school that will be overwhelmingly dominated by Spanish. How will they support the three languages and fufill their charter. BTW--I would not support Finnish either.

This. All the respect in the world for my Jewish brothers and sisters, but I just don't think that Hebrew is appropriate for DCI. They'll have enough time supporting French and Chinese with the small classes from those schools. Hebrew would create even more challenges. As a DCI feeder parent I'd like my child to focus on the three being offered and would actually be opposed to him Hebrew- not because I have issues with Jewish people and their culture, but because I'd want him to take what I believe are more useful languages (Spanish, Mandarin, French, Arabic, and Russian in that order). While Arabic and Russian aren't in the mix (nor should they be with the difficulty in supporting the three already), if there were options to expand, Id support those two. Also, unless SELA finds a way to become fully subscribed (i'm understanding it's under subscribed at the moment), it wouldn't graduate a class large enough to enter DCI anyways. A lot of this banter is just speculative fodder in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ you may want to tell the anti-Semite accusers to shut up and that should help. Right now it sounds like the parents and boosters are whack and the school sucks, so rather than address that, they're on the attack accusing skeptics of being anti-Semitic. Lame and gross. Shame on them.

Your mastery of rhetoric and the English lexicon is so ghastly, that it hurts my ears just to read what you spew.

Oh shut up, language police. DCUM is a place to shoot the shit, not be graded on grammar. Are you SELA parent?... Thought so. You guys are just plain awful. No wonder the school is undersubscribed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well then, say that it's a fifteen minute walk NOT across the street. Geez Louise, what's wrong with saying what it actually is...

Well, Louise...for me IT'S ACROSS THE FREAKING STREET. SMH. I walk from the back or front of the building two blocks...CROSS THE STREET...and I am at the recreation center! We live downtown where the are no parks/recreation center...and love that Sela has one in close proximity -accessible in minutes - BY GOING ACROSS KANSAS - which appears to be STREET near Sela.

15 minutes to cross a street. That's a very wide street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ you may want to tell the anti-Semite accusers to shut up and that should help. Right now it sounds like the parents and boosters are whack and the school sucks, so rather than address that, they're on the attack accusing skeptics of being anti-Semitic. Lame and gross. Shame on them.

Your mastery of rhetoric and the English lexicon is so ghastly, that it hurts my ears just to read what you spew.

Oh shut up, language police. DCUM is a place to shoot the shit, not be graded on grammar. Are you SELA parent?... Thought so. You guys are just plain awful. No wonder the school is undersubscribed.

No, not a Sela parent, just a poster with an education. Your ignorance is so unfortunate, even to observe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a horse in that game, my kids attend a JMLK, but we are trilingual family. Before we came to the US my kids were learning a fourth language much more rare than Hebrew, they loved it and so did we.

I think it is great that a school like Sela exists. Just like learning piano, chess, going to museums, visiting other cities and countries, Hebrew might not be something you will use directly in your professional life (although it may end up being very useful). But without a doubt it is at least a cultural enrichment, great way to exercise the brain, develop abilities to learn other languages etc....Benefits are numerous.
And, just as important, life is not all about your future professional life.

I don't understand the aggressivity of some of the posters, they must have a very sad life.
Or maybe they could create their own charter instead of criticizing in such a non-consructive way the hard work of other people.

I hope the school will join DCI at some point, but I understand that for now it is already overwelming to put everything together for DCI.

Every language deserves respect, even if only 50 people speak it.

Very well said.

[Anonymous]

Instead of investigating who the Sela booster is, Jeff ought to look into who this anti-Sela person is. It is so way over the top. Any positive thing you say about Sela or anything that goes against this naysayer is met with unnecessary vitriol. What is your agenda and why don't you just let people who want some balanced opinions/information about the school obtain it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Instead of investigating who the Sela booster is, Jeff ought to look into who this anti-Sela person is. It is so way over the top. Any positive thing you say about Sela or anything that goes against this naysayer is met with unnecessary vitriol. What is your agenda and why don't you just let people who want some balanced opinions/information about the school obtain it?

+1. Wonder what is driving the spite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well then, say that it's a fifteen minute walk NOT across the street. Geez Louise, what's wrong with saying what it actually is...

Well, Louise...for me IT'S ACROSS THE FREAKING STREET. SMH. I walk from the back or front of the building two blocks...CROSS THE STREET...and I am at the recreation center! We live downtown where the are no parks/recreation center...and love that Sela has one in close proximity -accessible in minutes - BY GOING ACROSS KANSAS - which appears to be STREET near Sela.

15 minutes to cross a street. That's a very wide street.

There are plans to build a playground right on the school grounds as well. I'm hoping to get more concrete dates for completion in the near future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of investigating who the Sela booster is, Jeff ought to look into who this anti-Sela person is. It is so way over the top. Any positive thing you say about Sela or anything that goes against this naysayer is met with unnecessary vitriol. What is your agenda and why don't you just let people who want some balanced opinions/information about the school obtain it?

+1. Wonder what is driving the spite.

Yes please!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad about the newer posts of this thread is that instead of focusing on the challenges of the school, the Sela boosters are taking the cowardly and easy way by calling skeptics anti-Semetic. Seems really shallow and pathetic and certainly will give interested families pause to go elsewhere. Our children's education is the most important thing there is. Period. Being skeptical is not only appropriate, but the responsibility of good parents. Also, just because many people, Jewish people included, have expressed that Hebrew is self-limiting in numerous threads on DCUM doesn't make them anti-Semetic. It does, however, make Sela boosters seem desperate and lazy when they so quickly pull the race card in opposition to the criticism. If nothing else, this interaction leaves much to be desired with respect to meeting real Sela parents. I hope you all aren't represented by the boosters up-thread.

You're having a lot of trouble keeping in mind that not everyone who supports language immersion schools is a Sela booster. I have two children and we're at a different DCI feeder school. I see a lot of value in adding more languages to the DCI mix, and the more the better. If you don't care for Hebrew, then simply don't have your children take it. However a knee-jerk reaction against the option for others smells fishy.

Approximately the same number of people speak Hebrew as Finnish, though somehow I doubt we'd hear so many complaints about how "self-limiting" or "useless" Finnish is. That raises eyebrows.

NP, I am a parent of a child in a DCI feeder, and I do not see the value at this time of adding more languages. I am skeptical how DCI will handle Mandarin and French at a school that will be overwhelmingly dominated by Spanish. How will they support the three languages and fufill their charter. BTW--I would not support Finnish either.

This. All the respect in the world for my Jewish brothers and sisters, but I just don't think that Hebrew is appropriate for DCI. They'll have enough time supporting French and Chinese with the small classes from those schools. Hebrew would create even more challenges. As a DCI feeder parent I'd like my child to focus on the three being offered and would actually be opposed to him Hebrew- not because I have issues with Jewish people and their culture, but because I'd want him to take what I believe are more useful languages (Spanish, Mandarin, French, Arabic, and Russian in that order). While Arabic and Russian aren't in the mix (nor should they be with the difficulty in supporting the three already), if there were options to expand, Id support those two. Also, unless SELA finds a way to become fully subscribed (i'm understanding it's under subscribed at the moment), it wouldn't graduate a class large enough to enter DCI anyways. A lot of this banter is just speculative fodder in my opinion.

Hello! Just out of curiosity, how did you decide that Spanish, Mandarin, French, Arabic and Russian were more useful languages? I'm interested in knowing the basis of your preference of language selection for your children. What determines a language's usefulness in your opinion? Thanks so much!

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of investigating who the Sela booster is, Jeff ought to look into who this anti-Sela person is. It is so way over the top. Any positive thing you say about Sela or anything that goes against this naysayer is met with unnecessary vitriol. What is your agenda and why don't you just let people who want some balanced opinions/information about the school obtain it?

+1. Wonder what is driving the spite.

Yes please!

That poster has been pretty clear about who she is. She is a parent of a child at a DCI feeder and she doesn't think DCI should have Hebrew because it would detract from the languages they already plan to support.

I am also fairly sure that the first poster to start calling people anti-Semitic claimed not to be a Sela parent. So, I don't think Sela families should be held responsible for that.

I would advise Sela folks to start a new thread and let this one die. This thread has a lot of unnecessary baggage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ you may want to tell the anti-Semite accusers to shut up and that should help. Right now it sounds like the parents and boosters are whack and the school sucks, so rather than address that, they're on the attack accusing skeptics of being anti-Semitic. Lame and gross. Shame on them.

Your mastery of rhetoric and the English lexicon is so ghastly, that it hurts my ears just to read what you spew.

Oh shut up, language police. DCUM is a place to shoot the shit, not be graded on grammar. Are you SELA parent?... Thought so. You guys are just plain awful. No wonder the school is undersubscribed.

It's not your grammar, it's that you sound like you grew up in a trailer park, and learned the art of debate from goats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's sad about the newer posts of this thread is that instead of focusing on the challenges of the school, the Sela boosters are taking the cowardly and easy way by calling skeptics anti-Semetic. Seems really shallow and pathetic and certainly will give interested families pause to go elsewhere. Our children's education is the most important thing there is. Period. Being skeptical is not only appropriate, but the responsibility of good parents. Also, just because many people, Jewish people included, have expressed that Hebrew is self-limiting in numerous threads on DCUM doesn't make them anti-Semetic. It does, however, make Sela boosters seem desperate and lazy when they so quickly pull the race card in opposition to the criticism. If nothing else, this interaction leaves much to be desired with respect to meeting real Sela parents. I hope you all aren't represented by the boosters up-thread.

You're having a lot of trouble keeping in mind that not everyone who supports language immersion schools is a Sela booster. I have two children and we're at a different DCI feeder school. I see a lot of value in adding more languages to the DCI mix, and the more the better. If you don't care for Hebrew, then simply don't have your children take it. However a knee-jerk reaction against the option for others smells fishy.

Approximately the same number of people speak Hebrew as Finnish, though somehow I doubt we'd hear so many complaints about how "self-limiting" or "useless" Finnish is. That raises eyebrows.

NP, I am a parent of a child in a DCI feeder, and I do not see the value at this time of adding more languages. I am skeptical how DCI will handle Mandarin and French at a school that will be overwhelmingly dominated by Spanish. How will they support the three languages and fufill their charter. BTW--I would not support Finnish either.

This. All the respect in the world for my Jewish brothers and sisters, but I just don't think that Hebrew is appropriate for DCI. They'll have enough time supporting French and Chinese with the small classes from those schools. Hebrew would create even more challenges. As a DCI feeder parent I'd like my child to focus on the three being offered and would actually be opposed to him Hebrew- not because I have issues with Jewish people and their culture, but because I'd want him to take what I believe are more useful languages (Spanish, Mandarin, French, Arabic, and Russian in that order). While Arabic and Russian aren't in the mix (nor should they be with the difficulty in supporting the three already), if there were options to expand, Id support those two. Also, unless SELA finds a way to become fully subscribed (i'm understanding it's under subscribed at the moment), it wouldn't graduate a class large enough to enter DCI anyways. A lot of this banter is just speculative fodder in my opinion.

Hello! Just out of curiosity, how did you decide that Spanish, Mandarin, French, Arabic and Russian were more useful languages? I'm interested in knowing the basis of your preference of language selection for your children. What determines a language's usefulness in your opinion? Thanks so much!

NP, but to answer your own question scroll back a few pages where the numbers of speakers of each language was listed. In general, the "utility" or "usefullness" of a language is measured by a combination of how many people in the world speak the language, how much business is transacted in that language world-wide, and how common/uncommon it is for Americans to speak the language (so aside from immigrants, and those sharing the country's ethnicity, how many non-native and non-ethnic Americans speak that language)?

Even just looking at each one of those questions alone, there is no way you can conclude Hebrew is one of the more useful languages. When you combine all of those measures, Hebrew again doesn't make it by a long shot. And, as others have pointed out, neither does Finnish or several other languages. And as a new poster in this conversation, I echo the point that it's unfortunate that saying this point about the utility is described by some as anti-semetic. When talking about opening and running a school, when choosing a school for your child, when deciding which schools to partner with... the issue of how useful and how much of a world-wide language a language is is CRUCIAL. You simply cannot responsibly have that conversation without considering these factors.

If, for your family, there are other factors that make Hebrew useful or very desireable, awesome, then you are making an informed choice and it's good for you that the school exists. And if you're a family who just wants bilingual education and doesn't care at all which language, again, that is good for you and why not do Sela? You can get in and it's still bilingual so all the brain and other benefits should be there.

But for those considering the school without a connection or desire specifically for Hebrew, or those wanting to choose a language with career or college success as a major factor in which language is chosen, then the above issues must be considered. And to call someone anti-Semetic for raising them is ignorant and also damages your stance in supporting the school. It makes it look like those who attend/run/support the school are out of touch with reality. (And yes, I know this is the anonymous internet and there's no way of telling who is who, but whoever is raising anti-semitism in the conversation about the problems at the school or questioning the utility of Hebrew on the American and world stages is damaging the school's image here.

[Anonymous]

Same poster as above - re: DCI and feeding into it, while I can understand how some at DCI feeders would say "the more languages the merrier, why not Hebrew?", that is still a very uninformed view if you really look at what it takes to expand a language at a school trying to do what DCI is trying to do. You need a steady, major stream of students speaking that language and another steady stream of students from other schools who would choose Hebrew as their 2nd language in order to support the staffing and curriculum expansion that would be involved. There is absolutely no evidence that Hebrew would be supported in either of these ways at DCI.

And as an IB school focused on languages, the founders have to think seriously about which languages they include from the other end: which languages will make the school most competitive? Hebrew does not even get on the radar until they've looked at Arabic, Russian and maybe a few other languages. It's not just about which languages would be "nice" to have, it's about which languages will actually enhance and raise the competitiveness of the school and advantage the students. The founders of DCI have to keep their eyes on all of those issues when thinking of how to spend precious resources expanding the program, although right now they shouldn't even have "expansion" on their radar, since "opening" and "running" is the immediate mega challenge.

[Anonymous]

And they don't . I specifically asked DCI about Sela and leadership said there have been no discussions about Sela becoming a part of DCI.