Donut hole reality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok I’ll bite. I make $193,000.00 as a government attorney. However the first 20 years I was paying student loans. I paid them off. I didn’t get student loan forgiveness. Then and only then did I have one child but if course it took years and now I’m an older mom. I have been saving in a 529 for 8 years now but I will never reach the numbers required to pay tuition at the school I attended. Maybe I’ll just retire the year before I have to fill out the FASFA as it’s the only way I will get any aid. I also had medical bills and sent money to my mother. But sure I’m UMC.

Yes, you are UMC. You'd also qualify for some financial aid at some of the expensive private schools. You also don't need to save everything up front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS chose a nice public school in another state. 50K. So half of BC. We were ready to pay more, and have plenty in our 529. But this is a nice savings.

But I honestly don't know why donut hole families would pay 100k. It must be ego. There are plenty of good schools at half the price.

You are getting what you pay for mostly in the community you are buying into. Small, cohesive, resources, etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

I'm sick of people claiming if you just drive a used car and forgo starbucks you should have enough for an elite college tuition. Bulls---. And why should people have to do so? College tuition and admissions are OUT.OF.CONTROL.

$13k/yr tuition at UMBC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way siblings are calculated for financial aid completely changed. We have kids one grade level apart. We always thought our oldest might be interested in a gap year so we really thought we would have two kids in college during the same 4 year period.

That is what we planned for and unfortunately for us the way financial aid is calculated has completely changed and we are now expected to pay double what we thought, which we are unable to do. So sometimes you plan but the parameters fundamentally change. So if you have multiple kids in college and are expecting some aid, start calculating again.

This. I think it's disgusting that FAFSA changed this.

No, it’s fair. You should not get rewarded for multiple kids.

Ah the elitist who believes only the very wealthy should have children.
Glad my parents who had 7 didn’t listen to you. My dad was a lot better father than Bill Gates.

Bill Gates has only 3 children and you have no idea what kind of father he is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

I'm sick of people claiming if you just drive a used car and forgo starbucks you should have enough for an elite college tuition. Bulls---. And why should people have to do so? College tuition and admissions are OUT.OF.CONTROL.

$13k/yr tuition at UMBC.

Exactly, public universities exist to provide an affordable option, complaining because one can’t afford a private university is peak millennial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not whining whatsoever, just commenting about size/cost of home. We save a LOT more than 500/mo…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody is entitled to an elite education. We do have many many affordable ways to get a college education. CC to 4 year state school, in-state 4 year from start, private schools (with good merit many times), OOS schools with merit, and very expensive private schools.
You go where you can afford. Your kid will get a great education most places. Pick one within your budget and move on.

Exactly - no one is entitled to an elite education except the wealthy and poor so the wealthy can feel good about themselves. Middle and upper middle class people, please stay in your lane. Your lane being in state schools, cc to instate schools, lesser/non elite schools that give tons of merit. Don’t even think about aspiring to more. Leave elite schools to the elite. Stay in your lane. When they talk about diversity and all that stuff, just realize it is lip service and they aren’t talking about you

Majority of "poor" kids do not attend elite universities. Most do CC to 4 year or 4 year nearby so they can live at home, or they simply cannot afford college. Outside of the elite 25 colleges, FA is not provided in full, so they are forced to pick what they can afford.

Majority of people do not attend elite schools, they attend what they can get into and what they can afford.

Yes, the "rich" can afford whatever they want, just like they can buy that $3M mansion, 2nd vacation home, fly business to Europe/asia for vacations and drive luxury cars. Do you constantly complain that X is in a job that makes 5X what you do? Do you complain that you cannot afford a BMW or Tesla? Do you complain that you cannot afford to fly business/first class?
Fact is many middle/upper class people make choices every day---many do afford $80K universities and forgo other things. Life is all about choices, unless you are Bezos or Gates level of rich. Life is too short to constantly being upset that others have more than you. Your efforts would be better spent finding ways to improve your life so you can be happy. And if your kid attending a T20 schools is what would make you happiest (vs any T100) then that is a bit shallow and you should really focus on finding the right fit for your kids

I don't believe the elite/T25 schools are all that most people make them out to be. I fully believe its "what you do at college that matters, not where you go". One kid went to a T100, one went to a T30 (and was denied at two T25s).

I'm sick of people claiming if you just drive a used car and forgo starbucks you should have enough for an elite college tuition. Bulls---. And why should people have to do so? College tuition and admissions are OUT.OF.CONTROL.

$13k/yr tuition at UMBC.

Exactly, public universities exist to provide an affordable option, complaining because one can’t afford a private university is peak millennial.

This. All this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who claim donut hole and are angry that they only have 130k in an account —are you also stomping your feet that you can’t afford the 2M mansions in the other town? Do you ping away at what you cannot have? Or are you happy that you have a good home in a solid town. Because you are indeed able to afford a good education via state universities. I swear college admissions is the only area where this nonsense comes into play. For everything else in life you buy what you can afford in your budget and move one. Why do you think you are entitled to a high priced private college. You have 100s even 1000s of colleges available to you via public universities.

It’s because so many selective colleges have policies where incomes under $150k students can attend free. Or under $200k, students qualify for need-based aid, and so on.

“Donut hole” (terrible name) is this window of income that puts you above need-based aid, but not enough to save as much as you’d had hoped.

The people who use the term tend to be jerks so it’s understandable why they’re disliked so much, but so many regular people fall into this category. They are stretched with housing, retirement, elder care, college savings, inflation and on and on. And yes, our kids end up going to public colleges or community schools, and doing ok. But, as a policy matter, it does sting that someone earning just a bit less than you qualifies for aid. I know there’ll be someone who says “well then earn less!” 🙄 there’s always a rebuttal to everything, but that’s the honest answer.

It’s about lifestyle choices. Two families on the same income and one chooses a million dollar house and one chooses a $400k house. The million dollar house family with more kids should not get rewarded for their poor decisions.

We picked the 400k house. We still couldn't pay 85k/year times 2 for college. Or I guess we "could", but it would be a financially stupid decision!

Same here but I guess it makes people like the PP feel better to make these assumptions. We are not going on fancy vacations and we settled for a 2300sq ft house. Still couldn’t pay full price at privates.

In 1980 the median size for a new home was 1600 sqft.
https://www.thezebra.com/resources/home/median-home-size-in-us/

This is a little silly. We rented a 1800 soft home somewhere ultra desirable that would have cost 1 million to buy. We bought in a burb, 2400 sqft, for 420k. Size is only a small part of it.

I'm one of the ones that saved 500/month. We lived in 1300 sf for 12 years. Would have loved to have 2400, that would have been spacious! But we decided to save for college, fully fund it, and we did. Now we've upgraded to 4000 sf. We made a plan and stuck to it. But yup, keep whining 2400 sfooter.

I’m not whining whatsoever, just commenting about size/cost of home. We save a LOT more than 500/mo…

Cool. So you’re not claiming to suffer from the fabled donut hole right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is useless without laying out how much total income family has, going back/forward 10 years of more.

There's no reason to expect private college should be easily affordable from current income. It's a 4 years in a lifetime experience.

As your income goes up, you save vs. changing your lifestyle to go with the new income increase. See how that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole thread is useless without laying out how much total income family has, going back/forward 10 years of more.

There's no reason to expect private college should be easily affordable from current income. It's a 4 years in a lifetime experience.

As your income goes up, you save vs. changing your lifestyle to go with the new income increase. See how that works.

Not everyone has a huge salary increase. So many assumptions in this thread.

[Anonymous]

$13k for tuition/year is a lot of money for a lot of people. Maybe not the posters on this thread, but still, that’s more than $1k/month just to pay tuition. Not including transport, books, etc.

What is the median income in the US?

I think I did the math not long ago on if my child were just to pay tuition to GMU (we live in Ffx county) and live at home, that is ~$60k. Sure, it could be slightly cheaper to do 2 years in community college, but for most people, that truly is a LOT of money. This board talks like that’s no big deal. It is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My god— my niece paid $100k freshmen year to attend Boston College.

It’s not very different from Georgetown or any of the SLACs.

My child has been accepted to some very adjective universities (5-6%%) acceptance rate—but paying $70k more per year over the very good VA public university seems ludicrous.

This is the point we have come to in higher education. A $400k undergrad degree?

It is $85,000 for BC not $100,000