Middle Schools for Cap Hill

[Anonymous]

Why are we even parsing SH vs Jefferson? Neither is a good choice for kids on a college track. I went to the SH open house a few years ago and the principal was touting that they allowed certain 8th graders to take algebra 1 and that was impressive as a “high school” course. I left about 10 minutes into the open house knowing the school was not for us. Anyone who is on a college track takes algebra 1 in MS. If your MS does not offer it at a bare minimum there is a problem. The mediocrity that hill parents are conditioned to expect is astounding.

[Anonymous]

Pretty much. The result is that more than 80% of UMC in-boundary families still vote with their feet away from all 3 Hill DCPS middle schools.

I didn't make it through the SH open house either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are we even parsing SH vs Jefferson? Neither is a good choice for kids on a college track. I went to the SH open house a few years ago and the principal was touting that they allowed certain 8th graders to take algebra 1 and that was impressive as a “high school” course. I left about 10 minutes into the open house knowing the school was not for us. Anyone who is on a college track takes algebra 1 in MS. If your MS does not offer it at a bare minimum there is a problem. The mediocrity that hill parents are conditioned to expect is astounding.

Things have improved. A few years is a long time on CH. Some SH 7th graders and many 8th graders now take algebra, along with honors ELA. It's the non-differentiated science and social studies that scare parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it worth changing from a jefferson feeder to a hobson feeder? distance is about the same.

I'm sure you will hear from Jefferson boosters on here... but if you care about the size of the cohort of high performing kids & the size of the cohort of truly low performing kids, SH is a no brainer. ELA is where the huge difference is and that's the skill that's more transferable to the non-tracked classes like science & social studies. SH has 6% of kids getting 1s on PARCC... Jefferson has 26%. So, in one setting, your kid's class might have 1 or 2 kids *way* below grade level (illiterate or close to it, if we're being honest); in the other, it's fully 1/4th of the class. On the flip side, SH has over 50% of kids at grade level for ELA, so even the non-tracked classes are majority kids who have the tools to do the work; at Jefferson, it's just over 1/3.

A few responses to this:

* You are judging the two schools based solely on 2018-19 PARCC data and no other factors. I would suggest that there is far more to consider when weighing school options, particularly since none of that test data reflects the performance or aptitude of any of the kids who currently attend either school.

* While you are correct that the 2018-2019 data showed a significant difference in ELA proficiency (56% at Stuart-Hobson versus 37% at Jefferson), you did not mention that the math proficiency of the two schools was very similar that year (23% and 21%, respectively).

* The percentage of Jefferson students receiving a 1 in ELA in 2018-2019 was actually 23%, not 26%. I realize that it's a small difference -- and that it wasn't a good number in any case. But if you're going to rely solely on 2018-2019 PARCC data to judge the schools, at least be accurate, particularly if you're going to use phrases like "fully 1/4th."

* I would argue that math is more transferable to science than is ELA. And if f you're going to classify kids as "illiterate" for receiving a 1 on ELA, then how do you classify those who received a 1 in math in 2018-2019 (17% at Stuart-Hobson and 23% at Jefferson)?

* It bears repeating that all of these numbers are from 2018-2019 and do not in any way reflect the performance or aptitude of any of the current students at Jefferson or Stuart-Hobson.

* In the latest U.S. and World Report rankings, Jefferson is the considered third best standalone DCSP middle school, behind only Deal and Hardy. Stuart-Hobson is fourth in that category. Point being, those of us in Ward 6 have relatively good options for middle schools, despite all of the complaining of some on here.

* Regardless of which school may be "better," I don't think it's worth uprooting a kid from his or her current elementary school just for a change in the feeder pattern. For the past couple of years, Stuart-Hobson has been relatively easy to get into through the lottery. For 2021-2022, it made 91 waitlist offers for sixth grade. The year before that it made 135. (Some of the current students at Jefferson received waitlist offers for Stuart-Hobson but remained with Jefferson, while some kids who had been Jefferson-bound switched to Stuart-Hobson. Each family had its own reasons for its decision.)

Jefferson booster is here! I said if you care about the size of the high performing cohort and low performing cohort; some may not and have other things they value more. I specifically said ELA is where the huge difference is, so I’m not sure where you get that I didn’t acknowledge I was talking about ELA specifically. Math has very little transference to the BS middle school science class both schools are doing. This isn’t BASIS real physics. It’s like Earth Science at most. There’s a reason that ESes drill reading even to the detriment of math. Innumeracy doesn’t make you unable to read your science textbook… you know what does? (You’re right about 23 v 26; my apologies.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are we even parsing SH vs Jefferson? Neither is a good choice for kids on a college track. I went to the SH open house a few years ago and the principal was touting that they allowed certain 8th graders to take algebra 1 and that was impressive as a “high school” course. I left about 10 minutes into the open house knowing the school was not for us. Anyone who is on a college track takes algebra 1 in MS. If your MS does not offer it at a bare minimum there is a problem. The mediocrity that hill parents are conditioned to expect is astounding.

Things have improved. A few years is a long time on CH. Some SH 7th graders and many 8th graders now take algebra, along with honors ELA. It's the non-differentiated science and social studies that scare parents.

Hmmm...on the last PARCC test, 3% of S-H kids scored 4+ on the 7th grade math test compared to 66% at BASIS DC.

[Anonymous]

^^ Oh and yes, these numbers are from 3 years ago. This years PARCC results are going to be way, way worse across the board. 6% and 23% Level 1 will seem practically unattainable.

[Anonymous]

I know a kid at Jefferson. She regularly describes her school as “so ghetto.” She told a story about a kid attacking a teacher the other day. Sounds amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ Oh and yes, these numbers are from 3 years ago. This years PARCC results are going to be way, way worse across the board. 6% and 23% Level 1 will seem practically unattainable.

This. This. This. If you think those old scores are bad, you’ve seen nothing yet. The learning loss is real as proven by the DC data and the worst of it is in the poorly performing cohorts in the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it worth changing from a jefferson feeder to a hobson feeder? distance is about the same.

I'm sure you will hear from Jefferson boosters on here... but if you care about the size of the cohort of high performing kids & the size of the cohort of truly low performing kids, SH is a no brainer. ELA is where the huge difference is and that's the skill that's more transferable to the non-tracked classes like science & social studies. SH has 6% of kids getting 1s on PARCC... Jefferson has 26%. So, in one setting, your kid's class might have 1 or 2 kids *way* below grade level (illiterate or close to it, if we're being honest); in the other, it's fully 1/4th of the class. On the flip side, SH has over 50% of kids at grade level for ELA, so even the non-tracked classes are majority kids who have the tools to do the work; at Jefferson, it's just over 1/3.

A few responses to this:

* You are judging the two schools based solely on 2018-19 PARCC data and no other factors. I would suggest that there is far more to consider when weighing school options, particularly since none of that test data reflects the performance or aptitude of any of the kids who currently attend either school.

* While you are correct that the 2018-2019 data showed a significant difference in ELA proficiency (56% at Stuart-Hobson versus 37% at Jefferson), you did not mention that the math proficiency of the two schools was very similar that year (23% and 21%, respectively).

* The percentage of Jefferson students receiving a 1 in ELA in 2018-2019 was actually 23%, not 26%. I realize that it's a small difference -- and that it wasn't a good number in any case. But if you're going to rely solely on 2018-2019 PARCC data to judge the schools, at least be accurate, particularly if you're going to use phrases like "fully 1/4th."

* I would argue that math is more transferable to science than is ELA. And if f you're going to classify kids as "illiterate" for receiving a 1 on ELA, then how do you classify those who received a 1 in math in 2018-2019 (17% at Stuart-Hobson and 23% at Jefferson)?

* It bears repeating that all of these numbers are from 2018-2019 and do not in any way reflect the performance or aptitude of any of the current students at Jefferson or Stuart-Hobson.

* In the latest U.S. and World Report rankings, Jefferson is the considered third best standalone DCSP middle school, behind only Deal and Hardy. Stuart-Hobson is fourth in that category. Point being, those of us in Ward 6 have relatively good options for middle schools, despite all of the complaining of some on here.

* Regardless of which school may be "better," I don't think it's worth uprooting a kid from his or her current elementary school just for a change in the feeder pattern. For the past couple of years, Stuart-Hobson has been relatively easy to get into through the lottery. For 2021-2022, it made 91 waitlist offers for sixth grade. The year before that it made 135. (Some of the current students at Jefferson received waitlist offers for Stuart-Hobson but remained with Jefferson, while some kids who had been Jefferson-bound switched to Stuart-Hobson. Each family had its own reasons for its decision.)

Jefferson booster is here! I said if you care about the size of the high performing cohort and low performing cohort; some may not and have other things they value more. I specifically said ELA is where the huge difference is, so I’m not sure where you get that I didn’t acknowledge I was talking about ELA specifically. Math has very little transference to the BS middle school science class both schools are doing. This isn’t BASIS real physics. It’s like Earth Science at most. There’s a reason that ESes drill reading even to the detriment of math. Innumeracy doesn’t make you unable to read your science textbook… you know what does? (You’re right about 23 v 26; my apologies.)

You said that "if you care" about these factors, then it's a "no brainer." You are apparently disregarding everyone who does, in fact, care about these factors but who also takes into account other factors in considering schools. It's not as simple as "caring" or "not."

Apologies accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ Oh and yes, these numbers are from 3 years ago. This years PARCC results are going to be way, way worse across the board. 6% and 23% Level 1 will seem practically unattainable.

This. This. This. If you think those old scores are bad, you’ve seen nothing yet. The learning loss is real as proven by the DC data and the worst of it is in the poorly performing cohorts in the city.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it worth changing from a jefferson feeder to a hobson feeder? distance is about the same.

I'm sure you will hear from Jefferson boosters on here... but if you care about the size of the cohort of high performing kids & the size of the cohort of truly low performing kids, SH is a no brainer. ELA is where the huge difference is and that's the skill that's more transferable to the non-tracked classes like science & social studies. SH has 6% of kids getting 1s on PARCC... Jefferson has 26%. So, in one setting, your kid's class might have 1 or 2 kids *way* below grade level (illiterate or close to it, if we're being honest); in the other, it's fully 1/4th of the class. On the flip side, SH has over 50% of kids at grade level for ELA, so even the non-tracked classes are majority kids who have the tools to do the work; at Jefferson, it's just over 1/3.

A few responses to this:

* You are judging the two schools based solely on 2018-19 PARCC data and no other factors. I would suggest that there is far more to consider when weighing school options, particularly since none of that test data reflects the performance or aptitude of any of the kids who currently attend either school.

* While you are correct that the 2018-2019 data showed a significant difference in ELA proficiency (56% at Stuart-Hobson versus 37% at Jefferson), you did not mention that the math proficiency of the two schools was very similar that year (23% and 21%, respectively).

* The percentage of Jefferson students receiving a 1 in ELA in 2018-2019 was actually 23%, not 26%. I realize that it's a small difference -- and that it wasn't a good number in any case. But if you're going to rely solely on 2018-2019 PARCC data to judge the schools, at least be accurate, particularly if you're going to use phrases like "fully 1/4th."

* I would argue that math is more transferable to science than is ELA. And if f you're going to classify kids as "illiterate" for receiving a 1 on ELA, then how do you classify those who received a 1 in math in 2018-2019 (17% at Stuart-Hobson and 23% at Jefferson)?

* It bears repeating that all of these numbers are from 2018-2019 and do not in any way reflect the performance or aptitude of any of the current students at Jefferson or Stuart-Hobson.

* In the latest U.S. and World Report rankings, Jefferson is the considered third best standalone DCSP middle school, behind only Deal and Hardy. Stuart-Hobson is fourth in that category. Point being, those of us in Ward 6 have relatively good options for middle schools, despite all of the complaining of some on here.

* Regardless of which school may be "better," I don't think it's worth uprooting a kid from his or her current elementary school just for a change in the feeder pattern. For the past couple of years, Stuart-Hobson has been relatively easy to get into through the lottery. For 2021-2022, it made 91 waitlist offers for sixth grade. The year before that it made 135. (Some of the current students at Jefferson received waitlist offers for Stuart-Hobson but remained with Jefferson, while some kids who had been Jefferson-bound switched to Stuart-Hobson. Each family had its own reasons for its decision.)

Jefferson booster is here! I said if you care about the size of the high performing cohort and low performing cohort; some may not and have other things they value more. I specifically said ELA is where the huge difference is, so I’m not sure where you get that I didn’t acknowledge I was talking about ELA specifically. Math has very little transference to the BS middle school science class both schools are doing. This isn’t BASIS real physics. It’s like Earth Science at most. There’s a reason that ESes drill reading even to the detriment of math. Innumeracy doesn’t make you unable to read your science textbook… you know what does? (You’re right about 23 v 26; my apologies.)

You said that "if you care" about these factors, then it's a "no brainer." You are apparently disregarding everyone who does, in fact, care about these factors but who also takes into account other factors in considering schools. It's not as simple as "caring" or "not."

Apologies accepted.

Yeah, sorry. If you care at all about the size of the cohorts, I think it’s a no brainer. No apologies from me. Jefferson has too many really low performing kids and not enough high performing ones. No apologies for that reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are we even parsing SH vs Jefferson? Neither is a good choice for kids on a college track. I went to the SH open house a few years ago and the principal was touting that they allowed certain 8th graders to take algebra 1 and that was impressive as a “high school” course. I left about 10 minutes into the open house knowing the school was not for us. Anyone who is on a college track takes algebra 1 in MS. If your MS does not offer it at a bare minimum there is a problem. The mediocrity that hill parents are conditioned to expect is astounding.

Things have improved. A few years is a long time on CH. Some SH 7th graders and many 8th graders now take algebra, along with honors ELA. It's the non-differentiated science and social studies that scare parents.

I thought SH put every kid in "honors ELA." If that is indeed the case, I don't understand how it's honors...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it worth changing from a jefferson feeder to a hobson feeder? distance is about the same.

I'm sure you will hear from Jefferson boosters on here... but if you care about the size of the cohort of high performing kids & the size of the cohort of truly low performing kids, SH is a no brainer. ELA is where the huge difference is and that's the skill that's more transferable to the non-tracked classes like science & social studies. SH has 6% of kids getting 1s on PARCC... Jefferson has 26%. So, in one setting, your kid's class might have 1 or 2 kids *way* below grade level (illiterate or close to it, if we're being honest); in the other, it's fully 1/4th of the class. On the flip side, SH has over 50% of kids at grade level for ELA, so even the non-tracked classes are majority kids who have the tools to do the work; at Jefferson, it's just over 1/3.

A few responses to this:

* You are judging the two schools based solely on 2018-19 PARCC data and no other factors. I would suggest that there is far more to consider when weighing school options, particularly since none of that test data reflects the performance or aptitude of any of the kids who currently attend either school.

* While you are correct that the 2018-2019 data showed a significant difference in ELA proficiency (56% at Stuart-Hobson versus 37% at Jefferson), you did not mention that the math proficiency of the two schools was very similar that year (23% and 21%, respectively).

* The percentage of Jefferson students receiving a 1 in ELA in 2018-2019 was actually 23%, not 26%. I realize that it's a small difference -- and that it wasn't a good number in any case. But if you're going to rely solely on 2018-2019 PARCC data to judge the schools, at least be accurate, particularly if you're going to use phrases like "fully 1/4th."

* I would argue that math is more transferable to science than is ELA. And if f you're going to classify kids as "illiterate" for receiving a 1 on ELA, then how do you classify those who received a 1 in math in 2018-2019 (17% at Stuart-Hobson and 23% at Jefferson)?

* It bears repeating that all of these numbers are from 2018-2019 and do not in any way reflect the performance or aptitude of any of the current students at Jefferson or Stuart-Hobson.

* In the latest U.S. and World Report rankings, Jefferson is the considered third best standalone DCSP middle school, behind only Deal and Hardy. Stuart-Hobson is fourth in that category. Point being, those of us in Ward 6 have relatively good options for middle schools, despite all of the complaining of some on here.

* Regardless of which school may be "better," I don't think it's worth uprooting a kid from his or her current elementary school just for a change in the feeder pattern. For the past couple of years, Stuart-Hobson has been relatively easy to get into through the lottery. For 2021-2022, it made 91 waitlist offers for sixth grade. The year before that it made 135. (Some of the current students at Jefferson received waitlist offers for Stuart-Hobson but remained with Jefferson, while some kids who had been Jefferson-bound switched to Stuart-Hobson. Each family had its own reasons for its decision.)

Jefferson booster is here! I said if you care about the size of the high performing cohort and low performing cohort; some may not and have other things they value more. I specifically said ELA is where the huge difference is, so I’m not sure where you get that I didn’t acknowledge I was talking about ELA specifically. Math has very little transference to the BS middle school science class both schools are doing. This isn’t BASIS real physics. It’s like Earth Science at most. There’s a reason that ESes drill reading even to the detriment of math. Innumeracy doesn’t make you unable to read your science textbook… you know what does? (You’re right about 23 v 26; my apologies.)

You said that "if you care" about these factors, then it's a "no brainer." You are apparently disregarding everyone who does, in fact, care about these factors but who also takes into account other factors in considering schools. It's not as simple as "caring" or "not."

Apologies accepted.

Yeah, sorry. If you care at all about the size of the cohorts, I think it’s a no brainer. No apologies from me. Jefferson has too many really low performing kids and not enough high performing ones. No apologies for that reality.

You are apparently treating the 2018-2019 PARCC data as the end-all-be-all for determining how well students are performing at a given school. You apparently have no direct experience with Jefferson or with how kids there are placed in specific cohorts. Citing PARCC data that anyone can easily look up themselves adds absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.

Look, I get it that you chose not to send your kid(s) to Jefferson. That's perfectly fine. The school is not for everyone -- nor is any other school.

As long as we're going to play this game, why don't you tell us which middle school you did choose. Then those of us who have no experience with that school can tell you what's wrong with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are we even parsing SH vs Jefferson? Neither is a good choice for kids on a college track. I went to the SH open house a few years ago and the principal was touting that they allowed certain 8th graders to take algebra 1 and that was impressive as a “high school” course. I left about 10 minutes into the open house knowing the school was not for us. Anyone who is on a college track takes algebra 1 in MS. If your MS does not offer it at a bare minimum there is a problem. The mediocrity that hill parents are conditioned to expect is astounding.

Things have improved. A few years is a long time on CH. Some SH 7th graders and many 8th graders now take algebra, along with honors ELA. It's the non-differentiated science and social studies that scare parents.

I thought SH put every kid in "honors ELA." If that is indeed the case, I don't understand how it's honors...

That’s not correct. SH tracks ELA and math. One is honors; one is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is it worth changing from a jefferson feeder to a hobson feeder? distance is about the same.

I'm sure you will hear from Jefferson boosters on here... but if you care about the size of the cohort of high performing kids & the size of the cohort of truly low performing kids, SH is a no brainer. ELA is where the huge difference is and that's the skill that's more transferable to the non-tracked classes like science & social studies. SH has 6% of kids getting 1s on PARCC... Jefferson has 26%. So, in one setting, your kid's class might have 1 or 2 kids *way* below grade level (illiterate or close to it, if we're being honest); in the other, it's fully 1/4th of the class. On the flip side, SH has over 50% of kids at grade level for ELA, so even the non-tracked classes are majority kids who have the tools to do the work; at Jefferson, it's just over 1/3.

A few responses to this:

* You are judging the two schools based solely on 2018-19 PARCC data and no other factors. I would suggest that there is far more to consider when weighing school options, particularly since none of that test data reflects the performance or aptitude of any of the kids who currently attend either school.

* While you are correct that the 2018-2019 data showed a significant difference in ELA proficiency (56% at Stuart-Hobson versus 37% at Jefferson), you did not mention that the math proficiency of the two schools was very similar that year (23% and 21%, respectively).

* The percentage of Jefferson students receiving a 1 in ELA in 2018-2019 was actually 23%, not 26%. I realize that it's a small difference -- and that it wasn't a good number in any case. But if you're going to rely solely on 2018-2019 PARCC data to judge the schools, at least be accurate, particularly if you're going to use phrases like "fully 1/4th."

* I would argue that math is more transferable to science than is ELA. And if f you're going to classify kids as "illiterate" for receiving a 1 on ELA, then how do you classify those who received a 1 in math in 2018-2019 (17% at Stuart-Hobson and 23% at Jefferson)?

* It bears repeating that all of these numbers are from 2018-2019 and do not in any way reflect the performance or aptitude of any of the current students at Jefferson or Stuart-Hobson.

* In the latest U.S. and World Report rankings, Jefferson is the considered third best standalone DCSP middle school, behind only Deal and Hardy. Stuart-Hobson is fourth in that category. Point being, those of us in Ward 6 have relatively good options for middle schools, despite all of the complaining of some on here.

* Regardless of which school may be "better," I don't think it's worth uprooting a kid from his or her current elementary school just for a change in the feeder pattern. For the past couple of years, Stuart-Hobson has been relatively easy to get into through the lottery. For 2021-2022, it made 91 waitlist offers for sixth grade. The year before that it made 135. (Some of the current students at Jefferson received waitlist offers for Stuart-Hobson but remained with Jefferson, while some kids who had been Jefferson-bound switched to Stuart-Hobson. Each family had its own reasons for its decision.)

Jefferson booster is here! I said if you care about the size of the high performing cohort and low performing cohort; some may not and have other things they value more. I specifically said ELA is where the huge difference is, so I’m not sure where you get that I didn’t acknowledge I was talking about ELA specifically. Math has very little transference to the BS middle school science class both schools are doing. This isn’t BASIS real physics. It’s like Earth Science at most. There’s a reason that ESes drill reading even to the detriment of math. Innumeracy doesn’t make you unable to read your science textbook… you know what does? (You’re right about 23 v 26; my apologies.)

You said that "if you care" about these factors, then it's a "no brainer." You are apparently disregarding everyone who does, in fact, care about these factors but who also takes into account other factors in considering schools. It's not as simple as "caring" or "not."

Apologies accepted.

Yeah, sorry. If you care at all about the size of the cohorts, I think it’s a no brainer. No apologies from me. Jefferson has too many really low performing kids and not enough high performing ones. No apologies for that reality.

You are apparently treating the 2018-2019 PARCC data as the end-all-be-all for determining how well students are performing at a given school. You apparently have no direct experience with Jefferson or with how kids there are placed in specific cohorts. Citing PARCC data that anyone can easily look up themselves adds absolutely nothing of value to the conversation.

Look, I get it that you chose not to send your kid(s) to Jefferson. That's perfectly fine. The school is not for everyone -- nor is any other school.

As long as we're going to play this game, why don't you tell us which middle school you did choose. Then those of us who have no experience with that school can tell you what's wrong with it.

This is the problem with Jefferson boosters. Talking about the size of various cohorts at the school is not an attack on you or your choices.