What do we think about Latin second campus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanish after school offerings aren't remotely serious. I've sometimes wondered why the Spanish and Chinese immersion parents in the school community have never banded together to hire after-school tutors to keep the kids' language skills going. You'd think that admins would have worked with them to remedy the deficit long ago. There are so many Mundo Verde, Lamb, Oyster and YuYing 4th grade grads at Latin, along with UMC parents with the dough to supplement and the savvy to fund-raise to help low SES immersion graduates. Agree that weak language instruction at Latin is a shame, despite a strong base of language learning for maybe a quarter of the students. Just another area where lack of ambition, resources, planning and vision trump promise.

They are excellent at teaching Latin! From 5th grade on....and you should see the modern Greek class.

Grand! But a good many 5th graders arrive practically fluent in Spanish and Chinese yet the school can't be bothered to so much as help them retain their skills, let alone build on them before 8th grade (by which time the skills have been badly eroded). Logic dictates that this is a waste.

My kid is a very serious violist. Should Latin be expected to retain further her skills as well?

Advanced violin in the same category as advanced Spanish? That's goofy, PP.

This is like asking, my kid has studied math, English and social studies in the past, should Latin be expected to advance her SCIENCE skills in 5th-7th grades as well?

No, it's essentially the same thing. Studies show studying music is equivalent to learning a second langauge in a number of dimentions, including improving brain function. That you see it differently relates to your own values, not empirical information.

Regardless, the point is that you are asking a school to bend to your set of values. It won't and it shouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanish after school offerings aren't remotely serious. I've sometimes wondered why the Spanish and Chinese immersion parents in the school community have never banded together to hire after-school tutors to keep the kids' language skills going. You'd think that admins would have worked with them to remedy the deficit long ago. There are so many Mundo Verde, Lamb, Oyster and YuYing 4th grade grads at Latin, along with UMC parents with the dough to supplement and the savvy to fund-raise to help low SES immersion graduates. Agree that weak language instruction at Latin is a shame, despite a strong base of language learning for maybe a quarter of the students. Just another area where lack of ambition, resources, planning and vision trump promise.

They are excellent at teaching Latin! From 5th grade on....and you should see the modern Greek class.

Grand! But a good many 5th graders arrive practically fluent in Spanish and Chinese yet the school can't be bothered to so much as help them retain their skills, let alone build on them before 8th grade (by which time the skills have been badly eroded). Logic dictates that this is a waste.

I'm curious why these parents don't just choose a school that teaches these languages in middle school, then?

I'm.curious as well. I thought WL did a great job with Latin, French Arabic and Chinese. I can't remember if they taught Greek? For the living languages (Arabic and Chinese and French) sure the school should support clubs and extensions. For Spanish, that would be on parents to promote since it's not offered in the school is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This comment below makes no sense to me. I don't get why people *choose* Latin v. DCI if the foreign language their kid's been studying is so important. Did they not know what they were doing when moving their child to Latin? Personally, as a Latin parent, I would like the school to offer Spanish as one of the languages. But I don't understand how you leave an immersion/bilingual school for Latin and then are frustrated when you could've just gone to DCI.

<<Grand! But a good many 5th graders arrive practically fluent in Spanish and Chinese yet the school can't be bothered to so much as help them retain their skills, let alone build on them before 8th grade (by which time the skills have been badly eroded). Logic dictates that this is a waste.>>

Please, these are DC public schools, programs in one of the lowest-performing urban school districts in the nation.

You must know that most of the parents who choose language immersion do it mainly to stay in their DC communities because their IB elementary schools are iffy or disastrous. They choose Latin because their IB middle schools are the same. It's very difficult to get into DCI for 6th grade on the Spanish track, no easier than getting a spot at Latin without sibling preference.

They can take Spanish at thie IB middle schools. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Washington Latins "model", Boston Latin, is a test in school. Since WL is not, there has been a tension in its mission/vision since it's inception. This is not new. It's the plus and minus of being far more equitable (in one way - lottery based with weighted preferences that are not academic) than BL. If you disagree with that, you would need to change its structure to test in - like a Walls, Ellington, Banneker, TJ or Boston Latin. It is what it is.

TJ is an application school but there is no longer a test to get in.

There is a "test" in the sense that you must present a package, be evaluated and accepted ( and many aren't). That's a form of gatekeeping that allows schools to shape their student bodies, esp when it comes to academic prowess .Apart from the weightings for sibling, at risk etc. Which has zero to do with demonstrated aptitude, Latin is a lottery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This comment below makes no sense to me. I don't get why people *choose* Latin v. DCI if the foreign language their kid's been studying is so important. Did they not know what they were doing when moving their child to Latin? Personally, as a Latin parent, I would like the school to offer Spanish as one of the languages. But I don't understand how you leave an immersion/bilingual school for Latin and then are frustrated when you could've just gone to DCI.

<<Grand! But a good many 5th graders arrive practically fluent in Spanish and Chinese yet the school can't be bothered to so much as help them retain their skills, let alone build on them before 8th grade (by which time the skills have been badly eroded). Logic dictates that this is a waste.>>

Also these parents wouldn't be satisfied by offering Spanish I in 5th grade for their kid- they would expect several levels of Spanish for their kids so they don't "fall behind" on their skills. Its way too much to expect this.

[Anonymous]

There are so many ways outside of school for a motivated kid to carry on in Spanish if that's their be all, end all - or - choose a school that offers Spanish. Meanwhile Latin offers many things others schools don't. I am curious if they will one day offer Spanish... I think it could be done starting in Grade 5. But can't say I'm sympathetic to this line of critique over the school making other choiçes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are so many ways outside of school for a motivated kid to carry on in Spanish if that's their be all, end all - or - choose a school that offers Spanish. Meanwhile Latin offers many things others schools don't. I am curious if they will one day offer Spanish... I think it could be done starting in Grade 5. But can't say I'm sympathetic to this line of critique over the school making other choiçes.

There is some support for offering Spanish ( instead of French ) as a language at the second campus. We’ll see if it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Washington Latins "model", Boston Latin, is a test in school. Since WL is not, there has been a tension in its mission/vision since it's inception. This is not new. It's the plus and minus of being far more equitable (in one way - lottery based with weighted preferences that are not academic) than BL. If you disagree with that, you would need to change its structure to test in - like a Walls, Ellington, Banneker, TJ or Boston Latin. It is what it is.

I don't agree. This view of how Washington Latin must work--shared by the program's leadership-- is a cop out. Latin's leadership and teachers could offer far more rigor to the most advanced students. At BASIS, another DC charter school, seniors can't graduate unless they've passed at least half a dozen AP exams.

For example, admins won't permit 5th and 6th graders to take languages other than Latin, although a good many come in from DC public school language immersion programs for Spanish, Chinese and French. Some of the UMC parents of language immersion graduates team up to hire pricey tutors to help kids retain language skills, meaning that it's mostly the former low SES language immersion students at Latin who lose their skills. This policy could easily be changed. Also, math is tracked at Latin in middle school, but not humanities subjects, another policy that could be changed. Social promotion could also be jettisoned to help support more advanced academics.

Latin requires significantly more credits than other DC High Schools in order to graduate. Administration has purposefully chosen which AP classes are offered based on their academic/intellectual value. A teacher not bound by the AP US History course curriculum, for example, has much more leeway to create a meaningful course that's more than a collection of facts to be tested. A thing about Latin is you have to trust the administration and teachers to be professionals and have student's best interests in mind; with the mission and vision-statement always at the forefront. So far, they have earned my trust--more than the AP momey-making machine has!

Fabulous in theory, not so hot in practice. It's useful for kids to have a clutch of high AP scores under their belts when applying to colleges, no matter what sort of schools they attended.

Just so you know: college admissions offices receive what's know as a school "snap shot" from the high school guidance department with every application. This snapshot lays out the courses available in the school and ranks them according to difficulty. The most difficult course at Latin is not an AP course. College admissions staff want students who have taken the most difficult classes available at their school and will compare this snapshot with the students' transcripts. A raft of AP's with high scores is not an entrance ticket by any means--money: tutors and a good zip code can buy all that. Have you been through this before?

I work in college admissions and don't agree.

Which course at Latin is tougher than...Physics 2, Physics C Mechanics, Physics C Electricity and Magnetism, BC Calculus, AP languages?

Interviewing applicants for your alma mater does not count as working in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many ways outside of school for a motivated kid to carry on in Spanish if that's their be all, end all - or - choose a school that offers Spanish. Meanwhile Latin offers many things others schools don't. I am curious if they will one day offer Spanish... I think it could be done starting in Grade 5. But can't say I'm sympathetic to this line of critique over the school making other choiçes.

There is some support for offering Spanish ( instead of French ) as a language at the second campus. We’ll see if it happens.

You'd think that Latin, campus 1,2 or both, would offer advanced Spanish and maybe Mandarin to the middle school kids who can handle it simply to improve the program's AP language scores down the track.

At Wilson, Oyster-Adams grads routinely take AP Spanish Language in 9th grade and AP Spanish lit in 10th grade and score 5s. The practice can't be hurting Wilson in college admissions. It's not as though Latin doesn't already teach Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Washington Latins "model", Boston Latin, is a test in school. Since WL is not, there has been a tension in its mission/vision since it's inception. This is not new. It's the plus and minus of being far more equitable (in one way - lottery based with weighted preferences that are not academic) than BL. If you disagree with that, you would need to change its structure to test in - like a Walls, Ellington, Banneker, TJ or Boston Latin. It is what it is.

I don't agree. This view of how Washington Latin must work--shared by the program's leadership-- is a cop out. Latin's leadership and teachers could offer far more rigor to the most advanced students. At BASIS, another DC charter school, seniors can't graduate unless they've passed at least half a dozen AP exams.

For example, admins won't permit 5th and 6th graders to take languages other than Latin, although a good many come in from DC public school language immersion programs for Spanish, Chinese and French. Some of the UMC parents of language immersion graduates team up to hire pricey tutors to help kids retain language skills, meaning that it's mostly the former low SES language immersion students at Latin who lose their skills. This policy could easily be changed. Also, math is tracked at Latin in middle school, but not humanities subjects, another policy that could be changed. Social promotion could also be jettisoned to help support more advanced academics.

Latin requires significantly more credits than other DC High Schools in order to graduate. Administration has purposefully chosen which AP classes are offered based on their academic/intellectual value. A teacher not bound by the AP US History course curriculum, for example, has much more leeway to create a meaningful course that's more than a collection of facts to be tested. A thing about Latin is you have to trust the administration and teachers to be professionals and have student's best interests in mind; with the mission and vision-statement always at the forefront. So far, they have earned my trust--more than the AP momey-making machine has!

Fabulous in theory, not so hot in practice. It's useful for kids to have a clutch of high AP scores under their belts when applying to colleges, no matter what sort of schools they attended.

Just so you know: college admissions offices receive what's know as a school "snap shot" from the high school guidance department with every application. This snapshot lays out the courses available in the school and ranks them according to difficulty. The most difficult course at Latin is not an AP course. College admissions staff want students who have taken the most difficult classes available at their school and will compare this snapshot with the students' transcripts. A raft of AP's with high scores is not an entrance ticket by any means--money: tutors and a good zip code can buy all that. Have you been through this before?

I work in college admissions and don't agree.

Which course at Latin is tougher than...Physics 2, Physics C Mechanics, Physics C Electricity and Magnetism, BC Calculus, AP languages?

Interviewing applicants for your alma mater does not count as working in admissions.

I concur. I'm an admissions officer at a university in the District. My children attend a DC public charter school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many ways outside of school for a motivated kid to carry on in Spanish if that's their be all, end all - or - choose a school that offers Spanish. Meanwhile Latin offers many things others schools don't. I am curious if they will one day offer Spanish... I think it could be done starting in Grade 5. But can't say I'm sympathetic to this line of critique over the school making other choiçes.

There is some support for offering Spanish ( instead of French ) as a language at the second campus. We’ll see if it happens.

Latin already teaches Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are so many ways outside of school for a motivated kid to carry on in Spanish if that's their be all, end all - or - choose a school that offers Spanish. Meanwhile Latin offers many things others schools don't. I am curious if they will one day offer Spanish... I think it could be done starting in Grade 5. But can't say I'm sympathetic to this line of critique over the school making other choiçes.

There is some support for offering Spanish ( instead of French ) as a language at the second campus. We’ll see if it happens.

You'd think that Latin, campus 1,2 or both, would offer advanced Spanish and maybe Mandarin to the middle school kids who can handle it simply to improve the program's AP language scores down the track.

At Wilson, Oyster-Adams grads routinely take AP Spanish Language in 9th grade and AP Spanish lit in 10th grade and score 5s. The practice can't be hurting Wilson in college admissions. It's not as though Latin doesn't already teach Spanish.

9th graders taking 11th grade spanish is not nearly the same as a 5th grader taking 8th grade spanish. Come on.

[Anonymous]

Not sure what you're getting at. Some of the 5th graders at Latin who started Spanish immersion programs in PreS4 or PreK4 speak significantly better Spanish than Latin high school students who didn't start Spanish until 8th or 9th grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Washington Latins "model", Boston Latin, is a test in school. Since WL is not, there has been a tension in its mission/vision since it's inception. This is not new. It's the plus and minus of being far more equitable (in one way - lottery based with weighted preferences that are not academic) than BL. If you disagree with that, you would need to change its structure to test in - like a Walls, Ellington, Banneker, TJ or Boston Latin. It is what it is.

TJ is an application school but there is no longer a test to get in.

There is a "test" in the sense that you must present a package, be evaluated and accepted ( and many aren't). That's a form of gatekeeping that allows schools to shape their student bodies, esp when it comes to academic prowess .Apart from the weightings for sibling, at risk etc. Which has zero to do with demonstrated aptitude, Latin is a lottery

You don’t understand what a test is.

TJ got rid of the admissions test. It is now a holistic admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what you're getting at. Some of the 5th graders at Latin who started Spanish immersion programs in PreS4 or PreK4 speak significantly better Spanish than Latin high school students who didn't start Spanish until 8th or 9th grades.

I'm speaking to the poster who was arguing that since Wilson can put 9th graders in advanced/senior spanish, that its no big deal to put 10 year olds in more advanced spanish classes too. The thing is, the gulf of maturity, ability to manage workload, behavior, etc., is such that you just can't take a newly minted 5th grader and put them in an upper middle or high school spanish class regardless of where their language skills are. Latin would have to have a special advanced spanish class only for 5th and/or MAYBE 6th graders. It's a non starter anyway you slice it.