Alec Baldwin fatally shot someone on movie set with gun mishap

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Long work hours aren't unsafe, and not getting put up in Santa Fe hotels isn't unsafe.

Filming during covid is stressful and unfun but still happening. What happened is that someone made a mistake. Whether it was the head armorer or someone else will be determined.

This isn't true. Many industries have rest time requirements exactly because it is unsafe to work without adequate sleep. People are made to sleep for a portion of their day.

[Anonymous]

I have so many questions and admittedly know absolutely nothing about guns.

Why on earth would they even have real bullets on a set?
Do blanks look similar to real bullets? If so, why? Why can't they be pink or some other color?

Can't they use something that just poofs smoke and a small ignition? Like a kids' pop-it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have so many questions and admittedly know absolutely nothing about guns.

Why on earth would they even have real bullets on a set?
Do blanks look similar to real bullets? If so, why? Why can't they be pink or some other color?

Can't they use something that just poofs smoke and a small ignition? Like a kids' pop-it?

They weren’t real bullets. People can be killed by blanks.

[Anonymous]

People, at least read the last few pages of posts before putting up questions that have been answered on the previous page.

A “live round” on a film set IS a blank. Blanks can hurt people (kill them even) so their use on sets is strictly governed.

No evidence an actual bullet was involved in this incident and odds are strongly against it.

We also don’t know if what came out of the gun was a blank (aka live round). Report is that the gun was identified as a “cold” (meaning empty) gun. Reports also say that as they were rehearsing the scene, Baldwin was practicing unholstering the gun, and that he did it at least once without incident. On a subsequent practice, something came out of the gun and hit the cinematographer and director.

Could have been a blank, in which case the question is who loaded it, why was it identified as an unloaded weapon, etc.

Could have been debris, in which case the question is why safety protocols which require multiple checks that the gun is cleaned and free of debris were not followed.

There are also reports that this specific gun had “misfired” multiple times on set. Misfire can mean a number of things and I don’t know what it means in this situation. But a gun that is not properly discharging ammo is a safety hazard because it means it’s internal workings are not functioning properly. Using a gun like this is very dangerous. It is shocking to me that they did do without clearly identifying and fixing the source of the prior misfires. This aspect of the story makes me suspect that the projectile was almost certainly debris from a prior misfire that got lodged somewhere in the gun and that the gun was improperly cleaned and checked before being given to Baldwin. A terrible, and preventable, tragedy. Anyone involved should be banned from working on sets with firearms in the future, maybe banned from sets altogether.

I don’t know enough about NM state law on manslaughter, or on the insurance coverages of this particular production, to say what the criminal or civil repercussions will be. The production will almost certainly have to payout for wrongful death, but whether anyone can or will be held personally (or criminally) liable is very hard to say at this point.

[Anonymous]

Oh and I wanted to mention: initially the fact that they were using a real gun for a rehearsal raised questions for me, as actors are supposed to use rubber guns in rehearsal. But knowing that they were specifically practicing the unholstering of the gun explains that— it is understandable that Baldwin would want to rehearse that with the real weapon because the feel would be very different with a rubber gun, and you want it to go smoothly during the take, especially if you will be handling a gun with a blank in it. There are actually safety arguments for rehearsing with the real gun in this specific situation.

BUT since it is atypical to rehearse with a real gun, that is a time when everyone involved should be following maximum safety protocols and even putting in some additional checks and protocols to ensure safety. It is unthinkable to me that an AD handled the gun, that the armorer was not present, that the gun was not opened and checked by the armorer in view of the actor before handing it over, to show that the gun was clear and unloaded. Giving a real gun to an actor during a rehearsal where people are standing nearby and the set has not been properly cleared for a gun scene… it’s so cavalier. Just terrible. I have to imagine many people are struggling with their culpability right now because a lot of people on that set acted irresponsibly and they know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Long work hours aren't unsafe, and not getting put up in Santa Fe hotels isn't unsafe.

Filming during covid is stressful and unfun but still happening. What happened is that someone made a mistake. Whether it was the head armorer or someone else will be determined.

Actually long hours AND driving far when tired are unsafe.

Fatigue is a major cause of accidents.

[Anonymous]

Some of the staff that walked out submitted resignation letters citing poor gun safety. https://deadline.com/2021/10/rust-movie-gun-internal-review-safety-issues-production-camera-crew-walkout-1234860497/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the LA Times article:
“ The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.

Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.

Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.”

So it doesn’t sound like he was pointing it at them

Not trying to put blame on anyone, but why pull the trigger if it is a cold gun?

[Anonymous]

Well, if a blank can actually kill someone, then why call it a blank?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, if a blank can actually kill someone, then why call it a blank?

I feel like better, more clear terminology for stuff would be useful. I mean I get that the armors know it but maybe more clear language for everyone who isn’t them might help make sure there are fewer errors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, if a blank can actually kill someone, then why call it a blank?

I feel like better, more clear terminology for stuff would be useful. I mean I get that the armors know it but maybe more clear language for everyone who isn’t them might help make sure there are fewer errors.

It is clear with even a small amount of knowledge. Many people have been pontificating in this incident without even bothering to learn anything about how guns are handled on a film set. I have also seen people who know gun terminology but are unfamiliar with film sets making wrong assumptions because they don’t understand how guns are handled in set.

It isn’t up to an industry to change their terminology so that you can more easily weigh in on something with which you are unfamiliar. It is up to the individual (and especially journalists covering incidents like this) to do their homework and refrain from spreading falsehoods until they can speak from knowledge.

[Anonymous]

^ in = on, typing on phone and not catching all the typos

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the LA Times article:
“ The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.

Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.

Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.”

So it doesn’t sound like he was pointing it at them

Not trying to put blame on anyone, but why pull the trigger if it is a cold gun?

If it was truly a cold gun, which it was not (obviously), there would be no danger in pulling the trigger. One reason someone might pull the trigger in a cold gun would be if you were using a real gun for the shot itself (for authenticity, looks, and to help the actor feel more immersed in the moment), but planned to add a flash in post-production. This would be rare though and probably only selected if the director had a specific ifuc plan for a highly stylized effect with the gun. Otherwise, it’s so much cheaper to just fire the gun on set. If following proper procedures, it is not any more dangerous than using a cold gun.

This case was unique because they were using a cold gun for a rehearsal, presumably to facilitate Baldwin practicing unholstering the gun. In that case, him pulling the trigger shouldn’t be a problem IF it really is a cold gun and proper procedures were followed.

The ideal way to handle this situation, IMO, would be to do three stages:

1) a rehearsal with a rubber gun to set up shots, get actors familiar with marks, the angle he will hold the gun, etc. Anyone could be on set and wandering around for this rehearsal since no actual weapon in set.

2) a short and tightly controlled rehearsal explicitly for the actor to practice unholstering the real gun, with a set cleared to essential personnel and people in the locations they will be for the real shot. And the armorer and only the armorer handling the gun before handing it to the actor, then taking it right back.

3) the actual take with the live ammunition, with the exact same procedure as above.

Part of the reason for step 2 is to rehearse protocols for the live ammunition. Partly it’s to guard against an accident just like this, with a gun believed to be cold malfunctioning in a dangerous way. Guns are deadly weapons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long work hours aren't unsafe, and not getting put up in Santa Fe hotels isn't unsafe.

Filming during covid is stressful and unfun but still happening. What happened is that someone made a mistake. Whether it was the head armorer or someone else will be determined.

^ Typed by a lazy loser who has never worked a long day in their life. Get bent you worthless jerk.

Filming involves long hours. And living in the West involves lots of driving. Santa Fe isn't Taos but it's still $$$$.

There are always massive problems during shooting. Usually, people do their jobs effectively enough for people not to die. Not this time though.

Are you the one hoping that Baldwin is charged with manslaughter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long work hours aren't unsafe, and not getting put up in Santa Fe hotels isn't unsafe.

Filming during covid is stressful and unfun but still happening. What happened is that someone made a mistake. Whether it was the head armorer or someone else will be determined.

^ Typed by a lazy loser who has never worked a long day in their life. Get bent you worthless jerk.

Filming involves long hours. And living in the West involves lots of driving. Santa Fe isn't Taos but it's still $$$$.

There are always massive problems during shooting. Usually, people do their jobs effectively enough for people not to die. Not this time though.

Are you the one hoping that Baldwin is charged with manslaughter?

No. I’m a member of the IA that drove 70 miles to set yesterday.