Please convince me: DCPS over MoCo for smart kids

[Anonymous]

I posted on the general discussion forum, but heard from only a few DCPS parents, and most were ambivalent about DCPS. My kids are in K and 4th gr., academically talented. We move to DC soon, and are torn between DCPS and MoCo because of the schools. (We are not suburban types.) I'd be willing to send them to a good NW elementary school, but I'm not getting a great feeling about DCPS for MS and HS. Has anyone send their smart (several grades ahead in reading, a year ahead in math, etc.) kids all the way through DCPS and not regretted it? We can't afford private school, nor can we afford to move twice. I'm nervous about the competitiveness of MoCo schools, esp. the gifted programs. I want my kids challenged, not pressured. Childhood is short enough. Thanks for your responses. (And if you think we should just take our kids to MoCo, please let us know that too.)

[Anonymous]

Go to MOCO
If you don't like the gifted program, once you're in, then don't send the kids to it
I live in DC, and though my kids are getting a fair to decent elementary education, I DO wonder about middle school...
High school has magnets, so I'm not that worried about THAT part of it.

[Anonymous]

Full disclosure: My kids aren't in DCPS yet, although we intend to send our boys all the way through.

But I do have some insight to share from my father, who taught HS English for 35 years across a range of public schools in the Baltimore area. While I was attending a G&T program at an extremely high-performing public HS, my father was teaching the same curriculum to kids at one of the "worst" high schools in the same county. Although his G&T classes were smaller than mine, the kids were just as strong and were admitted to the same caliber colleges as my friends and I were. After I graduated HS, my father moved to another school in the county, this one much more similar to mine. Bigger G&T classes, but the kids were no more accomplished or successful than those at his previous school.

The point: Family support -- combined with natural ability -- is the most important predictor of success in school. As long a school has a small core of high-achieving students with supportive families, those students will do very well.

A few other points worth noting: Deal MS is completing a major renovation and introducing an IB program; Deal families seem to be very excited about both. And if you search on this forum, you'll see the very long list of impressive colleges accepting multiple Wilson students last year. Finally, there are a number of charter school options to consider if DCPS doesn't end up feeling right for your kids in MS and HS -- Washington Latin and School Without Walls, for example. And Banneker is a wonderful DCPS magnet school.

FWIW, we're choosing to send our kids to DCPS; we could afford private, but we love the city and want to support the schools -- and we think our kids will see some real benefit from attending schools with student bodies drawn from a wide socio-economic range. That said, MoCo has a wonderful school system and a number of lovely close-in neighborhoods, so it's certainly an attractive option if you're moving to the area.

Good luck to you, no matter what you decide!

[Anonymous]

The new Chancellor is a disaster although, thus far, she's (mostly) leaving Ward 3 schools alone.

School without Walls has been a great option for high school -- free GW classes (for kids and their teachers), as well as access to GWU's libraries, computers, athletic facilities, etc. But I think they just dropped the senior thesis requirement and there's some parental concern (I have friends whose son is now a Senior there) that the program is being dumbed down.

Wilson is a real mixed bag but there's always a group of high-performing kids there who take lots of AP courses and get into good colleges. Your kids won't be alone academically. Whether they'll be subjected to lockdowns because of violence on campus (happened last year) remains to be seen. But HS is far enough off to be unpredictable at that level.

Banneker would be another option but I don't know anyone whose kids are there.

Don't know about middle school. Currently, your best public school option for those grades may be a charter -- Howard has a math/sci oriented one. And some folks are hopeful about Washington Latin. If your 4th grader happens to be bilingual (spanish/english), s/he might have a shot at getting into Oyster/Adams. Oyster (preK-3) is near impossible for English speakers who don't live in bounds; Adams (4-8 (eventually, if not this year)) seems somewhat under-enrolled.

DCPS is in the process of converting lots of schools to PreK-8 (without much planning), so your younger child is likely to face a different middle school landscape than your older child.

FWIW, the middle schools are the most racially (and maybe economically) diverse schools in DCPS. Two of the better-performing ones -- Hardy and Deal have just been renovated/enlarged, so the facilities are relatively spiffy. And they aren't part of the odious "Capital Gains" project, so that's another plus. The Hardy kids I routinely encounter on the bus seems like a happy, surprisingly considerate group, but I can't speak to the academics.

Not much to go one, but it might give you a more focussed set of questions to ask. The friends with the Senior at School Without Walls are educators who sent all three of their academically talented and successful kids through DCPS, so it certainly can be done, but it's involved a lot of effort (continual involvement both in school and District level politics) and they are relieved that their DCPS days are almost over.

[Anonymous]

Schools Without Walls is not a charter. It's a DCPS school with selective admissions.

[Anonymous]

I spent 7 years in DCPS and 7 years at Holton. If you're the suburban type, pick DC. I also have a son who starts Pre-k next school year and I'm looking at DCPS. There are great choices out there but you must research. Went to the Hyde ES Open house and was every impressed the intimate school setting and well-spoken and extremely diverse student body. The only downside to Hyde is that they currently don't offer before care. Since I work full-time, this has to be an option. People here to forget those speciality DC public high schools that have admissions policies and highly rated. Look into Banneker High School, Duke Ellington for the Performing Arts, School without Walls.......(I burned out of Holton and Banneker rejected my application). For middle school, I was study Hardy and Deal. There are good public charter options at middle school level. I'm just not familar with them. When you live in DC (outside of Ward 3), you have to think outside the box and explore all your options..........

[Anonymous]

For what it's worth, when you say "we're not suburban types"-- you should really consider that there is a wide range of neighborhoods in both MoCo and DC. You may well find that some of the NW DC school districts you are interested in are as or less walkable and urban than parts of MoCo (say, Silver Spring and East Bethesda).

[Anonymous]

Former DCPS mom here. I also believe that kids with the right support can get a good education here. It's also good for white middle class kids to learn how to be comfortable going to school with people from quite different backgrounds. In this increasingly diverse world, I wanted my kid to not be afraid to be the only white kid in the room.

But it does take work and vigilance. Even if you get in the right schools, you will still deal on occasion with bad teachers (but it will only be on occasion). And we did end up sending dd to a private school for the last few years of high school, something we hadn't planned on but she convinced us to do it. (I would have preferred it if she had been more suited to Walls or Banneker.)

At any rate, if your other post is the one I'm thinking of, you seem really nervous about the school situation and you may be better off going to MoCo. (I didn't reply to the other thread because my kid is smart but she is not several years ahead.) In my view, DCPS (for educated middle class families) looks a lot better from the inside than it does from the outside but not everyone sees it that way and you may not want to take the risk.

[Anonymous]

Please consider DCPS. The ES schools in Wards 2 and 3 are all quite good. Hardy and Deal are both solid options for MS, and you have some choice as far as high schools. We were at Hyde for 7 years and loved it and are now at Eaton since we moved. My older kids went to Hardy, which is now a beautiful state of the art facility, and moved on to Wilson and Ellington. The new principal at Wilson has been getting rave reviews and we love the new principal at Ellington. Thanks to Rhee, inadequate teachers and principals are being weeded out.
It's not perfect and you must be vigilant and involved in your child's school, but the rewards are pretty amazing.

[Anonymous]

While there are certainly very suburban parts of DC (which OP would presumably avoid), the urbanity of Silver Spring, Bethesda, and Arlington has always seemed vastly overstated to me.

The walkable parts of Silver Spring are downright vile -- all the character is being purged from the area and replaced by what is essentially an outdoor mall of chain stores. Bethesda's downtown is, as one of my grad students once said, like a college town for grown-ups. But as Second Story Books gives way to the likes of Artsy-Fartsy, that becomes an increasingly unsustainable claim.

Basically, cities are more than just retail districts and apartment buildings. But those are the main "urban" features that these inner burbs have to offer.

[Anonymous]

I understand some of what you are saying 12:45, but saying downtown SS is vile is a ridiculous overstatement.

The OP explicitly said she is looking in NW, so tell me why AU Park, Friendship Heights, Van Ness, or even Cleveland Park is so much more "urban" than Bethesda or SS? If she was going to Capitol Hill that's one thing, but I don't see the schools feeding into Deal to be that urban.

[Anonymous]

I don't know what the poster above was thinking about with the criticism of Chancellor Rhee because a LOT of families think she's terrific! FINALLY someone is taking on the entrenched interests in DCPS. Frankly, I suspect anyone who's seriously opposed to her to be the sort of person who is satisfied with the DCPS status quo.

(Boy, does that say a LOT about you and NONE of it is good!)

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your responses, and please, keep them coming. It helps so much to hear different opinions and experiences.

12:30: If I seem nervous, I am because of my experience at our current (out of state) public ES. DC tested three grades ahead (!) in reading, but the school would not put her in language arts classes in the next grade up. Why? "It's not our policy." So, DC thinks everything should be easy (mostly it is for her), and gets extremely frustrated when she encounters something that she doesn't get instantly (math is a bit harder for her).

Quite honestly, I need to be convinced to take the risk on DCPS. But there are risks in the suburbs as well (kids developing a sense of entitlement, for one, extreme competitiveness, too many material goods, lack of diversity, cultural blandness, etc.) that are often discounted in the search for "safety" and good schools.

Thanks again for your perspectives.They are helping me weigh the variables.

[Anonymous]

DCPS parent here. While I am mostly satisfied with the education my kids got in DCPS elementary school (they are now in private), if you child is testing way ahead, I would stay in MoCo. DC just cannot accomodate gifted kids right now, and MoCo has a very good gifted and talented program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While there are certainly very suburban parts of DC (which OP would presumably avoid), the urbanity of Silver Spring, Bethesda, and Arlington has always seemed vastly overstated to me.

The walkable parts of Silver Spring are downright vile -- all the character is being purged from the area and replaced by what is essentially an outdoor mall of chain stores. Bethesda's downtown is, as one of my grad students once said, like a college town for grown-ups. But as Second Story Books gives way to the likes of Artsy-Fartsy, that becomes an increasingly unsustainable claim.

Basically, cities are more than just retail districts and apartment buildings. But those are the main "urban" features that these inner burbs have to offer.

Hope this isn't hijacking the thread, but just curious, not criticizing: what do you think constitutes a city other than metro, walkability/easy sociability, and retail? We live in Friendship Heights on the MD side, and I'd certainly say our area is urban. We can walk to metro and yes, to lots of retail, and we see our neighbors all the time just hanging out on the porch when dogs get walked, etc. What is your definition of urban if not that? (Again, sincerely curious.)