Claiming a disability on the SAT/ACT - have people been gaming the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

What you propose will never be fair to a large number of students with disabilities. Students who are college capable. This would effectively bar students with disabilities from college. That's discrimination and the IDEA is in place to make sure kids with disabilites have a level playing field.

This begs another question though - are they really college capable if they then also need accommodations in college? It's a separate discussion, but one I am not sure I fully understand.

Basically my whole family is dyslexic. Yes we are all college ready... Engineering, computer programming, Math majors, law school, a doctor, accountants

No English majors.

If you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree you would not know how skillful a fish is.

The world is not a timed test. SAT and ACT supposed to measure college readiness, it does not work for everybody. A high score tell a lot a bad score tells nothing.

I actually think most people could get really high SATs and ACTs but could never handle Math degrees or Engineering degrees, does that mean they should not go to college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those of you w kids in private schools w lots of wealthy families - ask your kids how many of their class mates get accommodations.

The % in private schools that get accommodations are much greater than in public especially inner city public schools. I wish CB would release the stats.

We only went to private because of dyslexia. The % should be higher. You seem to lack critical thinking skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This debate is scraming for some data.

Based on this article from Education Week (from someone who thinks the SAT should be untimed for all) in 2015-16 the college board received 160,000 requests for accommodations and approved about 80% of them. https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

So 128,000 students took the test with accommodations (perhaps slightly less because this isn't adjusted for people who took it 2x). https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2017/08/25/have-sat-accommodations-gone-too-far.html

1,681,134 students took the SAT that year. https://reports.collegeboard.org/archive/sat-suite-program-results/2016/class-of-2016-results

So, ~ 7% of students received accommodations on the test in 2016.

The CDC estimates that the percentage of the population with reading-related learning disabilities is 10%; the percentage of people under the age of 18 who have ADHD is about 15%, and 2/3 of the number of people with ADJD + at least one other mental, emotional, or behavioral disorder. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html

While the number of students with ADHD may go up or down by year, in general the rate of students receiving accommodations is lower than the percentage in the general student population.

The problem of fake or questionable diagnoses is probably outsized in certain communities (like the DMV), but this is not the crisis or scandal some on this thread think it is.

Most of the parents I know with kids with disabilities don't even apply for accommodations. Most don't even realize it's an option and many start too late to get it done. I know a lot of parent s who don't face the fact that their kids have disabilities and don't want the "stigma".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s so wrong with flagging tests with extra time? They should be looked st differently. I think it’s great your child with slow processing speed (or not anymore) can get a 35 on the ACT. Why wouldn’t colleges think that too? The test is flagged and maybe there is an explanation as to why. “Student has received 1.5 time because of low processing speed disability.”

If parents are arguing as they are here about it not really giving their child an advantage surely the makers of the test agree.

+1.

I believe some parents prefer to hide that inconvenient fact that gives their kids an obviously unfair advantage.

If you won the sprint gold medal by running 100m in 10 seconds, you don't want anyone to know you actually started running 20 seconds earlier.

Yep, bragging rights. Had a parent bragged that kid got a 780 on SAT math but failed to mention kid had extra time. What was the accommodation? 100% extra time for being diabetic. Why didn’t CB give breaks between where they can test their sugar levels/eat rather then extra time for the actual test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The SAT and ACT is testing speed. I don’t care who says it’s not. The SAT and ACT have said it is.

So I have a problem with accommodations that completely take that out of the equation.

SAT: our test is designed to test scholastic aptitude under timed conditions.

Parent: but my kid does poorly under timed conditions.

SAT: well, then your child won’t do as good on this test. Er. Wait. No. Strike that. Then we will give your child more time?

This will never be fair to me. No dog in the fight, though.

SAT: Our test is SUPPOSED to be designed to let colleges know which students will be successful in college.

Parent: My child is ready for college but can't take at test designed like the SAT... (oh yea can you get rid of b and d since they are essentially the same to my child)

SAT: Okay we need to find a way to not get sued for creating a test that does not work for people with disabilities and we are only here to make money so we are not designing a good test.

ACT: We can design a better test and better accomodations

SAT: O F&&k ACT is taking market share, we will change our test.

Colleges: SAT and ACT suck ... forget it we are just using GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at one of the so-called Big 3s here in DC. Two of my children have ADHD. Neither one of them gets accommodations because they need to learn how to handle it. They instead have an executive functioning coach. They are both in upper school now, and their grades are fine. Not stellar, but fine. One got into her first choice for college (not an Ivy or super-selective school).

My kids have told me that they think about 50% of the students get extra time. They say they don’t want it. But I am now wondering if I have somehow done them a disservice by not getting them accommodations. It’s a strange world.

The key here is that the world exists beyond college. So I would argue by not mowing down obstacles you have actually created a kids who will have learned to keep going even if they're not winning, to work harder than the next guy and advocate for what they want. My guess is at their 20th reunion, they will be far more successful than all those kids with accommodations who never learned to maneuver around and through problems.

Your generalizations and ignorance about disabilities is getting in your way. This maneuvering around a disability is a myth. Most kids with disabilities who are not helped, accommodated etc hate school by early elementary. To any parents with kids who are struggling at school, always keep your focus on never allowing any teacher, school, other students to make your kid hate school. Kids with disabilities with no support often stop trying and decide they are stupid. It's a waste of a valuable person to society to allow this. Kids with disabilities can't usually just gut it out. They often end up unemployed or in jail. This is why IDEA exists. The accommodations are a way of leveling the playing field so they can benefit from education like neurotypical kids.

I would like for the person who suggests that kids with disabilities should just "mow down obstacles" to volunteer his/her kids for "last place" in every race, every test, every measure of ability, for their entire educational career--do it without support or appropriate accommodation, knowing that dyslexia, ADHD, language disorders, dyscalculia, not intelligence, is what is holding them back. Tell them that failure has made them stronger and better.

Last place? You act so enlightened, but you still view learning as a competition?

Honestly, this is the problem right here, folks. This pp doesn’t care about her dc learning. Only about what place dc gets. It’s no wonder you want extra time so badly.

I'm not the poster your are criticizing but you are ignoring the point they are making. She's suggesting that parents with neurotypical kids often do not understand that the disabilities can't be overcome with just working harder. It is possible for these kids to be some of the brightest in the school or just college capable like other kids but a school career of failures will turn them off of school. Not having the supports often creates a pipeline to drug abuse and prison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you know the answer, why does it matter how fast you can write it down? How often does anyone in the real world even use a pencil anymore? Who has a job that requires perfectly filling in little circles with a No.2 pencil?

Why do they still have to fill in the g-dmnd little circles in a timed setting?

They don't. It's on a computer. And yes, speed counts. I would like my surgeon not to have to pause too long before deciding which sized stent to stick in my artery or for may lawyer to write her brief in less time so she can do other work as well.

So you think exceptionally bright people only become doctors or lawyers? First of all, some of the least intelligent people I have ever met are lawyers. Secondly, I would not want my brilliant DS to operate on you either, but he can solve the world's problems because of his unmatched ability to think critically, even though he has low processing speed. You on the other hand display a complete inability to grasp the concept of intelligence.

[Anonymous]

One more time for the people in the back.

Slow processing speed (and no other disorders) IS NOT A DISABILITY under the DSM-5(see belowO, ADA, IDEA or, consequently considered a disablity qualifying for accommodations by the College Board or ACT.

https://ce4less.com/Tests/Materials/E167Materials.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the SAT/ACT should just change their process. One fee pays for two tests. First test is untimed, and everyone can take as long as they want. Second test is timed and no accommodations. Scores and test type submitted for both tests to schools.

This would be cheaper, clearer, and more fair in the long run.

Which would allow colleges to discriminate against kids with disabilities.

I think the word disability has been twisted and manipulated lately, particularly by affluent and influential parents. A poor kid who is bad at math is just bad at math. A rich kid who is bad at math has an expensive psychologist declare he has dyscalculia and gets to use a calculator and extra time. Meanwhile a middle class kid who is great at math within the allotted time frame and no calculator gets rejected from the college of his choice. Parents who are manipulating the system are giving the whole process a bad name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the SAT/ACT should just change their process. One fee pays for two tests. First test is untimed, and everyone can take as long as they want. Second test is timed and no accommodations. Scores and test type submitted for both tests to schools.

This would be cheaper, clearer, and more fair in the long run.

Which would allow colleges to discriminate against kids with disabilities.

I think the word disability has been twisted and manipulated lately, particularly by affluent and influential parents. A poor kid who is bad at math is just bad at math. A rich kid who is bad at math has an expensive psychologist declare he has dyscalculia and gets to use a calculator and extra time. Meanwhile a middle class kid who is great at math within the allotted time frame and no calculator gets rejected from the college of his choice. Parents who are manipulating the system are giving the whole process a bad name.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you know the answer, why does it matter how fast you can write it down? How often does anyone in the real world even use a pencil anymore? Who has a job that requires perfectly filling in little circles with a No.2 pencil?

Why do they still have to fill in the g-dmnd little circles in a timed setting?

C’mon. Which kid is smarter? The kid who can read all those boring passages and answer the questions in 40 minutes? Or the one who needs extra time?

That’s why it’s timed.

ACT is moving toward computer based testing, and I fear it’s going to be a disaster.

Give them both 60 minutes and there are many LD kids who will blow your average kid out of the water. And that's what you're all afraid of. You all should be careful what you ask for. The tests should not be timed for anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One more time for the people in the back.

Slow processing speed (and no other disorders) IS NOT A DISABILITY under the DSM-5(see belowO, ADA, IDEA or, consequently considered a disablity qualifying for accommodations by the College Board or ACT.

https://ce4less.com/Tests/Materials/E167Materials.pdf

No kidding, but that's what all the dense parents of the average kids are focused on here. It is typically among the constellation of symptoms of students with ADHD and extremely high critical thinking skills, which does qualify for accommodations by the College Board and ACT. What's your point, exactly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you know the answer, why does it matter how fast you can write it down? How often does anyone in the real world even use a pencil anymore? Who has a job that requires perfectly filling in little circles with a No.2 pencil?

Why do they still have to fill in the g-dmnd little circles in a timed setting?

They don't. It's on a computer. And yes, speed counts. I would like my surgeon not to have to pause too long before deciding which sized stent to stick in my artery or for may lawyer to write her brief in less time so she can do other work as well.

So you think exceptionally bright people only become doctors or lawyers? First of all, some of the least intelligent people I have ever met are lawyers. Secondly, I would not want my brilliant DS to operate on you either, but he can solve the world's problems because of his unmatched ability to think critically, even though he has low processing speed. You on the other hand display a complete inability to grasp the concept of intelligence.

'

you really need to give it a rest. your DS wiht an "unmatched ability to think critically" will be FINE. he does not need 1.5 time on the SAT, unless you think that he must do EVERYTHING THE BEST.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 cents -- my child has a fine motor delay among other issues, and we've specifically asked for him NOT to get extra testing time in his IEP because we think he should learn to compensate, and we don't want him to think of himself as disabled or not having to work hard. He's still very young, but I think it's good for him to realize his weaknesses and learn to compensate, because the real world will not accomodate him.

You are doing a disservice to your child and you clearly don't understand your child's disabilities. I see this all the time on sn forums where a parent with a newly diagnosed child comes and the first thing they are concerned about is the child uses the label to be lazy or to not be accountable for behavoir issues. You are, in effect, punishing your child for their disability. If your kid's writing is slow and laborious, your child is going to miss instruction because child has to use more of the brain just to take notes. You need to educate yourself. Your sanctimonious post is all about you, not what is good for your child.

ffs. I let my kid get whatever accommodations he needs in class, to actually learn. when it comes to testing, however, he's going to test without accommodations. because I care more about his learning, and less about his grades. he's a smart kid and will end up where he belongs. your issue is that you care too much about standardized tests.

You make no sense. Having your kid test without accommodations doesn't show that you care about his learning. You are all about you. You do not understand your child's disabilities. The fine motor delay can affect more than you understand. My kid knows he has disabilites and this doesn't stop him from working harder than everyone else. You are spouting a bunch of old stereotypes about kids with disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Is ADHD a mental illness?