The Other Virginia Colleges: VCU, ODU, GMU, CNU, UMW . . . .

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

For AA students, it's not about diversity or "skin color" it's about a sustained experience of racism for their cultural group.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

For AA students, it's not about diversity or "skin color" it's about a sustained experience of racism for their cultural group.

Speak for yourself, I'm black, my spouse is black and our kid's are black. This paradigm is not what we teach our children.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:VT is my personal favorite. Best combination of academics and college experience, but obviously better if your child leans more towards the math and sciences.

That aside, my two cents:

VCU - decent school. good marketing program. urban campus in a fun part of Richmond. basketball program has been really good, so maybe people outside of Virginia have heard of it, but still not going to look good on your resume if you end up outside of Virginia.

ODU - exact same thing as above, but replace a "fun part of Richmond" with "near a shitty part of Norfolk".

GMU - much better academics than VCU or ODC, but lame commuter school with no college experience.[i]

CNU - never heard of it.

UMW - surprisingly good school, but nobody knows that so what good does it do? i.e., I was interviewing a MW kid and everyone assumed he was an idiot because of his undergrad choice.

VCU is one of the best Art schools in the US.

You must be ancient . Carnegie designated GMU as a Tier 1 Research Institution snd Residential college decades ago. All freshmen must live on campus. You aren’t even aware of the five campuses or the. Cybersecurity major are you? Hottest major in the US. Also there’s Mason Korea. Computer Science, game design and engineering are also bog. GMU is also the most diverse institution of higher learning in Virginia so you sound pretty racist

Incoming students who "have close residency to campus (defined as Fairfax, Arlington, Alexandria, Prince William and Loudon counties) with a a parent or legal guardian" are granted exemptions so no, there are lots of freshmen who commute and don't live on campus.

6200 GMU students live on campus and 75% of all freshman do. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/gmu-3749#:~:text=The%20main%20campus%20houses%20more,one%20of%20the%20residence%20halls.

Yes, but there's a big difference between ALL freshmen living on campus and 75% of freshmen living on campus, to the tune of more than 900 freshmen. And those exemptions are granted liberally.

Ah, another silly woman who just has to split hairs over and over to try to feel better about herself. HOW MANY FRIENDS DOES YOUR KID NEED? There are over 6200 students at GMU living in 40 dorms (most of which are gorgeous). My DS lived in them for six years (special needs) and made friends from all over the world but certainly didn't need to meet all 6200 of them. Nor did he need to meet the 40,000 students who attend the five campuses. And before you say 6200 students can't give you a vibrant night life, GMU has a great night life. Jitney buses run into Old Fairfax. Concerts and event are held daily at the arena. Jitney buses go to D.C. regularly. It's a great school. Maybe you need to educate yourself about what is actually going on there:

"George Mason University is an entrepreneurial Tier 1 research institution with global distinction in a range of academic fields. Located just outside of Washington, D.C., our beautiful 677-acre residential campus boasts a diverse student population. Over 6,200 students live on campus in over 40 residence halls. As the largest public research institution in Virginia, Mason enrolls more than 38,000 students in over 210 degree programs at the undergraduate, master's, doctoral, and professional levels. Students at all levels are routinely recognized with national and international scholarships and awards. Faculty members have received some of academia's highest honors, including twice winning the Nobel Prize in Economics. Our connection to the D.C. area results in engaged and dedicated faculty members who are at the top of their respective fields. This connectivity extends to our students, who take advantage of our unparalleled internship and research opportunities, and who secure careers at national and international companies and organizations, ranging from Amazon, Deloitte and Northrup Grumman to the Smithsonian Institution, the CIA, NASA and the White House. Many of our innovative degree programs are the first of their kind, including the first Ph.D. program in biodefense, the first D.C.-based undergraduate program in Conflict Analysis and Resolution, the first dedicated Cybersecurity Engineering program in the region, and one of the most innovative performing arts management programs in the United States. Mason is at the forefront of the emerging field of biotechnology, is a leader in the performing arts, and holds a preeminent position in the fields of economics, electronic journalism, and history."

My kid had four internships in his field and a job from Microsoft before graduating. He also did a term at Mason Korea. And he has only $24K in student debt via FAFSA unsubsidized loans. That's it. He's already made that four times over in his job (in case you don't know, GMU has excellent outreach to all of the I-270 corridor businesses and the Dulles businesses. Chairs of the departments and advisors meet monthly with local companies to find out what their upcoming needs are and to place students.

And here is the link requiring all freshmen to live on campus. https://housing.gmu.edu/apply/new-students. Sure, apply for the waiver and deprive your kid of dorm life. That's what you are arguing, are you not? You are arguing that 6200 students living on campus doesn't give a full campus experience, right? Then how does living at home with mom and dad give him a full campus experience?

Because UVA and W&M can't grow (established early and now landlocked), the Commonwealth is pumping money into the other 30 great public institutions we have in Virginia. Go tour Mason. It's construction everywhere. Go to the Science and Technology campus - again see more construction for Cybersecurity, VSGI (Virginia Serious Games Institute) and Computer Science. Here's the wiki on that:

Science and Technology Campus

The Science and Technology campus opened on August 25, 1997, as the Prince William campus in Manassas, Virginia, on 134 acres (0.209 sq mi; 540,000 m2) of land, some still currently undeveloped.[74] More than 4,000 students are enrolled in classes in bioinformatics, biotechnology, information technology, and forensic biosciences educational and research programs.[75] There are undergraduate programs in health, fitness and recreation. There are graduate programs in exercise, fitness, health, geographic information systems, and facility management. Much of the research takes place in the high-security Biomedical Research Laboratory.[76] The 1,123-seat Merchant Hall and the 300-seat Verizon Auditorium in the Hylton Performing Arts Center opened in 2010.[77][78]

The 110,000-square-foot Freedom Aquatic and Fitness Center is operated by the Mason Enterprise Center.[79] The Mason Center for Team and Organizational Learning stylized as EDGE is an experiential education facility open to the public.[80] The Sports Medicine Assessment Research and Testing lab stylized as SMART Lab is located within the Freedom center. The SMART Lab is most known for its concussion research.[81] On April 23, 2015, the campus was renamed to the Science and Technology Campus.[82]

In 2019, the university engaged in a feasibility study of creating a medical school at the Prince William Campus. The proposed medical school would be completed in 2022.[83][84] (the school has yet to be completed, but GMU has guaranteed pre-health programs leading into medical school with two other schools. https://prehealth.gmu.edu/pre-medicine/sophomore-entry-programs/).


Then go read about Mason Korea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University#/media/File:Songdo_Campus,_Mason_Korea..jpg


Then read about Mason Arlington.

and the list goes on.

That's why the university is now a top Tier 1 research facility and has attracted over 40,000 students.

Gee, get defensive much? I was just pointing out for people who may not be that familiar with GMU that no, not ALL freshmen have to live on campus, and that a sizable chunk (25%) don't. I did NOT state or even imply that GMU is only a school for commuters or that there isn't a vibrant residential life for freshmen. That implication instead came from hyper-defensive GMU boosters who can't tolerate any perceived criticism of the school. And I find it rather silly for anyone to think it's "splitting hairs" to note there's a difference between 100% and 75%. Would it be "splitting hairs" to correct a teacher claiming that all of her/his students passed an exam when in fact a quarter of the class failed it? Of course not.

I'm so done with this thread. Goodbye -- write another treatise if you want.

There's only one poster that I think is a defensive GMU booster. The other folks seem more measured. I think that GMU sometimes gets a bad rap from 'locals' based on outdated assumptions, so some "boosters" get a bit defensive and read more criticism than is intended. I don't have a direct connection (I didn't go to GMU, my kids didn't go to GMU), but I'm interested in and knowledgeable about higher ed from a policy perspective and think it's an interesting institution that will likely weather the coming storms in higher ed better than most. GMU has traditionally suffered from not paying its faculty enough and not having as strong undergraduate engagement as some other institutions, but is improving on both these points.

I disagree. The poster at 9:50 on page 1 (right up front!) calls GMU a "lame commuter school". Either that person is ancient and has a 1970s attitude or not clued in as to what is happening with higher education in the Commonwealth or has a personal issue. Go to GMU and tour. And learn. go to all five campuses before you judge. It is amazing what educational opportunities Virginia offers its students and before you say "PR hack", no I'm not. I'm a Californian who has studied both the CA and VA systems - both are extraordinary for what they offer publicly

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

What a privileged thing to say.

URM don't want to be around a large majority of people like you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

If you make $100,000 and get a 3% raise or 7% raise (because the difference between UVA and Vanderbilt black students is 4% not 4%), that is a $40,000 difference. Not small.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

If you make $100,000 and get a 3% raise or 7% raise (because the difference between UVA and Vanderbilt black students is 4% not 4%), that is a $40,000 difference. Not small.

Sorry $4,000 different. Now I'm following the bad math poster! Still a lot!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

What a privileged thing to say.

URM don't want to be around a large majority of people like you.

What an ignorant thing to say for many reasons which I'll let you figure out. You proved my point.

[Anonymous]

Black people make up 12% of the US population. I personally wouldn't send my black children (I'm white) to a school that has less than 10% of black people. I'd like the school to reflect the country. Plus we are from NoVA where the black population is about 19%

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:VT is my personal favorite. Best combination of academics and college experience, but obviously better if your child leans more towards the math and sciences.

That aside, my two cents:

VCU - decent school. good marketing program. urban campus in a fun part of Richmond. basketball program has been really good, so maybe people outside of Virginia have heard of it, but still not going to look good on your resume if you end up outside of Virginia.

ODU - exact same thing as above, but replace a "fun part of Richmond" with "near a shitty part of Norfolk".

GMU - much better academics than VCU or ODC, but lame commuter school with no college experience.[i]

CNU - never heard of it.

UMW - surprisingly good school, but nobody knows that so what good does it do? i.e., I was interviewing a MW kid and everyone assumed he was an idiot because of his undergrad choice.

VCU is one of the best Art schools in the US.

You must be ancient . Carnegie designated GMU as a Tier 1 Research Institution snd Residential college decades ago. All freshmen must live on campus. You aren’t even aware of the five campuses or the. Cybersecurity major are you? Hottest major in the US. Also there’s Mason Korea. Computer Science, game design and engineering are also bog. GMU is also the most diverse institution of higher learning in Virginia so you sound pretty racist

Incoming students who "have close residency to campus (defined as Fairfax, Arlington, Alexandria, Prince William and Loudon counties) with a a parent or legal guardian" are granted exemptions so no, there are lots of freshmen who commute and don't live on campus.

6200 GMU students live on campus and 75% of all freshman do. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/gmu-3749#:~:text=The%20main%20campus%20houses%20more,one%20of%20the%20residence%20halls.

Yes, but there's a big difference between ALL freshmen living on campus and 75% of freshmen living on campus, to the tune of more than 900 freshmen. And those exemptions are granted liberally.

Ah, another silly woman who just has to split hairs over and over to try to feel better about herself. HOW MANY FRIENDS DOES YOUR KID NEED? There are over 6200 students at GMU living in 40 dorms (most of which are gorgeous). My DS lived in them for six years (special needs) and made friends from all over the world but certainly didn't need to meet all 6200 of them. Nor did he need to meet the 40,000 students who attend the five campuses. And before you say 6200 students can't give you a vibrant night life, GMU has a great night life. Jitney buses run into Old Fairfax. Concerts and event are held daily at the arena. Jitney buses go to D.C. regularly. It's a great school. Maybe you need to educate yourself about what is actually going on there:

"George Mason University is an entrepreneurial Tier 1 research institution with global distinction in a range of academic fields. Located just outside of Washington, D.C., our beautiful 677-acre residential campus boasts a diverse student population. Over 6,200 students live on campus in over 40 residence halls. As the largest public research institution in Virginia, Mason enrolls more than 38,000 students in over 210 degree programs at the undergraduate, master's, doctoral, and professional levels. Students at all levels are routinely recognized with national and international scholarships and awards. Faculty members have received some of academia's highest honors, including twice winning the Nobel Prize in Economics. Our connection to the D.C. area results in engaged and dedicated faculty members who are at the top of their respective fields. This connectivity extends to our students, who take advantage of our unparalleled internship and research opportunities, and who secure careers at national and international companies and organizations, ranging from Amazon, Deloitte and Northrup Grumman to the Smithsonian Institution, the CIA, NASA and the White House. Many of our innovative degree programs are the first of their kind, including the first Ph.D. program in biodefense, the first D.C.-based undergraduate program in Conflict Analysis and Resolution, the first dedicated Cybersecurity Engineering program in the region, and one of the most innovative performing arts management programs in the United States. Mason is at the forefront of the emerging field of biotechnology, is a leader in the performing arts, and holds a preeminent position in the fields of economics, electronic journalism, and history."

My kid had four internships in his field and a job from Microsoft before graduating. He also did a term at Mason Korea. And he has only $24K in student debt via FAFSA unsubsidized loans. That's it. He's already made that four times over in his job (in case you don't know, GMU has excellent outreach to all of the I-270 corridor businesses and the Dulles businesses. Chairs of the departments and advisors meet monthly with local companies to find out what their upcoming needs are and to place students.

And here is the link requiring all freshmen to live on campus. https://housing.gmu.edu/apply/new-students. Sure, apply for the waiver and deprive your kid of dorm life. That's what you are arguing, are you not? You are arguing that 6200 students living on campus doesn't give a full campus experience, right? Then how does living at home with mom and dad give him a full campus experience?

Because UVA and W&M can't grow (established early and now landlocked), the Commonwealth is pumping money into the other 30 great public institutions we have in Virginia. Go tour Mason. It's construction everywhere. Go to the Science and Technology campus - again see more construction for Cybersecurity, VSGI (Virginia Serious Games Institute) and Computer Science. Here's the wiki on that:

Science and Technology Campus

The Science and Technology campus opened on August 25, 1997, as the Prince William campus in Manassas, Virginia, on 134 acres (0.209 sq mi; 540,000 m2) of land, some still currently undeveloped.[74] More than 4,000 students are enrolled in classes in bioinformatics, biotechnology, information technology, and forensic biosciences educational and research programs.[75] There are undergraduate programs in health, fitness and recreation. There are graduate programs in exercise, fitness, health, geographic information systems, and facility management. Much of the research takes place in the high-security Biomedical Research Laboratory.[76] The 1,123-seat Merchant Hall and the 300-seat Verizon Auditorium in the Hylton Performing Arts Center opened in 2010.[77][78]

The 110,000-square-foot Freedom Aquatic and Fitness Center is operated by the Mason Enterprise Center.[79] The Mason Center for Team and Organizational Learning stylized as EDGE is an experiential education facility open to the public.[80] The Sports Medicine Assessment Research and Testing lab stylized as SMART Lab is located within the Freedom center. The SMART Lab is most known for its concussion research.[81] On April 23, 2015, the campus was renamed to the Science and Technology Campus.[82]

In 2019, the university engaged in a feasibility study of creating a medical school at the Prince William Campus. The proposed medical school would be completed in 2022.[83][84] (the school has yet to be completed, but GMU has guaranteed pre-health programs leading into medical school with two other schools. https://prehealth.gmu.edu/pre-medicine/sophomore-entry-programs/).


Then go read about Mason Korea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mason_University#/media/File:Songdo_Campus,_Mason_Korea..jpg


Then read about Mason Arlington.

and the list goes on.

That's why the university is now a top Tier 1 research facility and has attracted over 40,000 students.

Gee, get defensive much? I was just pointing out for people who may not be that familiar with GMU that no, not ALL freshmen have to live on campus, and that a sizable chunk (25%) don't. I did NOT state or even imply that GMU is only a school for commuters or that there isn't a vibrant residential life for freshmen. That implication instead came from hyper-defensive GMU boosters who can't tolerate any perceived criticism of the school. And I find it rather silly for anyone to think it's "splitting hairs" to note there's a difference between 100% and 75%. Would it be "splitting hairs" to correct a teacher claiming that all of her/his students passed an exam when in fact a quarter of the class failed it? Of course not.

I'm so done with this thread. Goodbye -- write another treatise if you want.

There's only one poster that I think is a defensive GMU booster. The other folks seem more measured. I think that GMU sometimes gets a bad rap from 'locals' based on outdated assumptions, so some "boosters" get a bit defensive and read more criticism than is intended. I don't have a direct connection (I didn't go to GMU, my kids didn't go to GMU), but I'm interested in and knowledgeable about higher ed from a policy perspective and think it's an interesting institution that will likely weather the coming storms in higher ed better than most. GMU has traditionally suffered from not paying its faculty enough and not having as strong undergraduate engagement as some other institutions, but is improving on both these points.

I disagree. The poster at 9:50 on page 1 (right up front!) calls GMU a "lame commuter school". Either that person is ancient and has a 1970s attitude or not clued in as to what is happening with higher education in the Commonwealth or has a personal issue. Go to GMU and tour. And learn. go to all five campuses before you judge. It is amazing what educational opportunities Virginia offers its students and before you say "PR hack", no I'm not. I'm a Californian who has studied both the CA and VA systems - both are extraordinary for what they offer publicly

I'm not sure why you say you are disagreeing. I was just agreeing that the reaction to the poster saying that not all freshman live on campus (75% do) seemed hyper defensive, but the rest of the pro-GMU posts seemed more measured. I also acknowledged that the defensiveness is sort of understandable given the outdated perspectives of many about the school. I think GMU is a fantastic school, but do acknowledge its faults--it has received low scores on student engagement surveys and pays its faculty below market rates for their accomplishments (and thus have a lot of faculty poached by other schools). It has been steadily working on both these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Black people make up 12% of the US population. I personally wouldn't send my black children (I'm white) to a school that has less than 10% of black people. I'd like the school to reflect the country. Plus we are from NoVA where the black population is about 19%

I'm the PP, I'm black and think you are misguided but you do you. For what it's worth Harvard's black population is roughly 7% so I guess that would be out.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

For AA students, it's not about diversity or "skin color" it's about a sustained experience of racism for their cultural group.

Speak for yourself, I'm black, my spouse is black and our kid's are black. This paradigm is not what we teach our children.

So you don't teach your kids about racism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

For AA students, it's not about diversity or "skin color" it's about a sustained experience of racism for their cultural group.

Speak for yourself, I'm black, my spouse is black and our kid's are black. This paradigm is not what we teach our children.

So you don't teach your kids about racism?

We don't teach it as an impediment to success and a reason to not try your hardest to succeed in life. You can understand that something is present and have enough pride and resilience to rise above it, not sure why this is a hard concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

For AA students, it's not about diversity or "skin color" it's about a sustained experience of racism for their cultural group.

Speak for yourself, I'm black, my spouse is black and our kid's are black. This paradigm is not what we teach our children.

So you don't teach your kids about racism?

We don't teach it as an impediment to success and a reason to not try your hardest to succeed in life. You can understand that something is present and have enough pride and resilience to rise above it, not sure why this is a hard concept.

Did anyone else say something that differs from that? You can know that there is sustained racism, prefer to attend institutions that have robust programs to support the Black community at a school, and still know it's on you to deal with it individually and that you are fully capable of it. Not sure why that's a hard concept either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

For AA students, it's not about diversity or "skin color" it's about a sustained experience of racism for their cultural group.

Speak for yourself, I'm black, my spouse is black and our kid's are black. This paradigm is not what we teach our children.

So you don't teach your kids about racism?

We don't teach it as an impediment to success and a reason to not try your hardest to succeed in life. You can understand that something is present and have enough pride and resilience to rise above it, not sure why this is a hard concept.

Did anyone else say something that differs from that? You can know that there is sustained racism, prefer to attend institutions that have robust programs to support the Black community at a school, and still know it's on you to deal with it individually and that you are fully capable of it. Not sure why that's a hard concept either.

What am I saying that is so offensive? If you prefer to attend an institution that has robust programs to support the black community than do it. That is simply not a prerequisite for our family and that is our journey, you live your life and raise your kids accordingly and we'll do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM Female with high stats wants to go to GMU for CS. Everyone, including her teachers, discourages her. They tell her she is better suited for UVA and VT (we have to stay in-state) but she has no desire due to their low diversity. Not everyone looking at GMU is a poor student. People select schools for several reasons. Her stats put her in the top percent of admitted students but she really liked GMU. She doesn't view the quiet weekend feel as a drawback. She loves the program, internship opportunities and diversity.

How are schools like UVA and VT supposed to become more diverse if URMs reject them out of hand for lack of diversity?

They invest in cohort programs, support services and actively recruit and convince students rather than just assuming they will come and thrive.

+1. My black son isn't going to be a guinea pig. He turned down UVA due to lack of diversity and opted for Vanderbilt. He received merit scholarships from both but we would have liked him to be in VA and closer to home. He is starting hid sophomore year this year and is very happy there.

So your kid made a decision based on a 3% difference in black students at one school vs another? 🤔 might be time to stop patting yourself on the back.

Maybe you need to retake basic math. 3% is a big difference. Would you want a 3% raise or a 6% raise? Also, I don't have kids at either school but Google says it's a 4% difference. Again, a lot! Congrats to your son OP. My DD wants to go to Vandy. She's not a minority but it's her dream school.

Is it???

3% DIFFERENCE in the percentage of AA students is NOT big.

There are 6.48% AA students at UVA. 3-4% makes that 1.5 times as many. It's a big difference. 3-4% more also means 3-4% less of the dominant group.

This attitude is exactly why things will never change. Diversity goes way beyond race and color, maybe people need to start focusing on other things beyond color of skin.

For AA students, it's not about diversity or "skin color" it's about a sustained experience of racism for their cultural group.

Speak for yourself, I'm black, my spouse is black and our kid's are black. This paradigm is not what we teach our children.

So you don't teach your kids about racism?

We don't teach it as an impediment to success and a reason to not try your hardest to succeed in life. You can understand that something is present and have enough pride and resilience to rise above it, not sure why this is a hard concept.

Did anyone else say something that differs from that? You can know that there is sustained racism, prefer to attend institutions that have robust programs to support the Black community at a school, and still know it's on you to deal with it individually and that you are fully capable of it. Not sure why that's a hard concept either.

What am I saying that is so offensive? If you prefer to attend an institution that has robust programs to support the black community than do it. That is simply not a prerequisite for our family and that is our journey, you live your life and raise your kids accordingly and we'll do the same.

To me, you seemed to imply that teaching your kids about racism in institutions was not the paradigm you taught your kids-- when I responded that people who think about the race percentages represented aren't just thinking about diversity and "skin color" but rather the experiences of sustained racism in our country.

And to me it seemed that you then you indicated that somehow pride and resilience are at odds with caring about how an institution handles the fact that we are in a society with sustained racism (when you asked "not sure why that's a hard concept either" when you posted it in response to my comment about sustained racism). I think people are more likely to experience pride and resilience by acknowledging racism, fighting it, selecting institutions that show they are interested in and capable of supporting you and your community, and working hard and doing your best despite all this. Personally, I'm not like the poster who has a firm line of not above 10% --a lot of factors go into choosing a school--but when I see 6% at a flagship state university with a Black population of more than 3x that in the state, it raises questions for me and is a mark against it. So I'm fine with you thinking different, but your comments seemed antagonistic. Sorry if I misinterpreted.